The Baseball Book Club discussion

Hi gang,

Here is the link to my review of "Pitch By Pitch" by Bob Gibson and Lonnie Wheeler.

http://bobdangelobooks.weebly.com/the...


Bob

Sounds like a fun read. Thanks Bob

Bob Gibson would think nothing of knocking down his mother if she crowded the plate.

I agree -- and so would he.

He and Randy Johnson were the scariest guys to face from a fan's perspective because I'd never get in the batters box.

The earliest guy I can go to was Early Wynn, then Drysdale but Gibson gave NO quarter
Mike Linn

I figured someone would bring up Early Wynn, a 300-game winner who seems to have been forgotten by many baseball fans.

I don't know how hard he threw (he was a bit before my time) but I always loved Sal the Barber's nickname and 3-day stubble before taking the mound. The perfect act for a pitcher who wanted control of the inside half of the plate.

Barber was the perfect example of an average fastball who relied on a great curve, & like Gibson, took no crap & demanded the inside part. He was like Wynn, mostly disliked but respected. He was a mainstay of the Giants 1950`s staff & when he started to become mortal towards the end of his career, the Giants made sure he wound up in the American league so he couldn`t come back & haunt. But nobody told Cleveland that & guess where he wound up? On the Brooklyn Dodgers!! And in about half a season , won 13 games to lead the Dodgers to World Series. The story of his walking through the clubhouse door & stunning that Dodger team has been told many times. They say that the only one to greet him, was Jackie Robinson
Mike Linn

Doug wrote: "I don't know how hard he threw (he was a bit before my time) but I always loved Sal the Barber's nickname and 3-day stubble before taking the mound. The perfect act for a pitcher who wanted control..."
Yes I saw him pitch and had his baseball card. He always had the growth. He truly was the barber.

Michael wrote: "Barber was the perfect example of an average fastball who relied on a great curve, & like Gibson, took no crap & demanded the inside part. He was like Wynn, mostly disliked but respected. He was a ..."
Didn't Carl Furillo hate him for years until they buried the hatchet as two fellow paisons on the Dodgers/

Furillo was furious about Maglie throwing at him like ALWAYS. There`s a story about Furillo going into the Giant dugout to confront Durocher & wound up getting his hand stepped on & breaking it. When Maglie walked through that door in 1956, he had to be restrained
Mike Linn

That's the story I recall-thanks Mike-good job as always

I think it was Roger Kahn who described the Furillo-Durocher incident in his fine book, "The Boys of Summer." Apparently, Furillo grabbed Durocher around the neck and squeezed until Durocher's bald head turned red, at which point ballplayers intervened. Furillo did indeed get his hand stepped on. The injury ended his season, but he still ended up leading the National League in hitting. I think I have my facts straight fellas.

Gee, I could have sworn Kahn said his head was purple . My facts could have been crooked 2 hours ago. Jeez, gotta work on that
Mike Linn

That must be it because I read The Boys of summer. I am totally amazed at the recall of you guys. I read a book, and a week later I forget it.

I don`t ALWAYS remember, but I NEVER forget
Mike Linn
p.s. Harold, I was kidding- his head could have been crimson

I know you were kidding but I didn't even remember he had Durocher in a headlock.

And he went into their dugout to do it
Mike Linn

Yes, I remembered when you refreshed my memory. I think he challenged the whole team ala Anthony Rizzo

Guys. I couldn't help myself. I Googled Durocher-Furillo and the newspaper account of that fight came up. There was no mention of Durocher's head turning any color. They wrestled. No punches were thrown. Well ... Where was Kahn at the time of the fight? Up in the press box is my guess. He might have seen what he described in his book. On the other hand, maybe someone told him Leo's bald head turned crimson or purple or whatever. If Furillo didn't half choke him to death, it's too bad. Leo was a wise ass who needed a good ass kicking.
For what it's worth, I played ball against Furillo's nephew some years ago in central Pa. Furillo was known as the Reading Rifle for his powerful throwing arm. But you guys already knew that.

Did some checking: In Boys of Summer, Kahn writes of the September 6, 1953 incident that Durocher's hat fell off while his head was in the grip of a Furillo headlock and his head "turned purple."

In The Era, published a few years ago, Kahn apparently remembered a few more details as he states the pate of Durocher "turned pink, then red, THEN purple."

Another account in a different book attributed to New York Tribune writer Harold Rosenthal said "Leo's hat fell off and you could see Durocher's bald head START to turn purple from the pressure."

Maybe the sun hitting the dugout when viewed from different angles gave Leo's scalp a different hue, either pink or red or purple. Other accounts from fans or players may turn up that have it crimson, strawberry, periwinkle, lavender, scarlet, rosey or violet. But I think on this myth we can safely say that Leo's head did indeed change while he was being strangled and it gave off a distinctly abnormal color.

Exactly which color is anyone's guess at this point.

Durocher was the one who ordered the beanballs & one day, having had more than enough, Jackie Robinson laid down a bunt on the 1st base side to retaliate against that days beanballer, Sal Maglie. Maglie, wisely for him, didn`t cover 1st & Robinson obliterated Giant 2nd baseman Davey Williams , who did cover 1st. In effect, the collision ended William`s 6 year career.
Mike Linn

Interesting that everyone was fascinated with checking out what color Leo's head turned while Furillo was trying to kill him. Lol. Mike I read where you said that When Maglie entered the Dodgers clubhouse that Furillo had to be restrained from going after him. That never happened, nor was Robinson the only one to greet him. Both biographers of Furillo and Maglie basically tell the same story which I had read before that when Maglie came in they looked at each other and Maglie said hey Paisan and they shook hands. One wrote that there was a reporter present with the clubhouse guy and Furillo was the first one in from BP when Sal came in he saw the big number 6 on Carl's back and when Carl turned around they looked at each other and the clubhouse guy yelled don't do it, we're all dagos in here. Which cracked everyone up and then they shook hands. They became fast friends and roomed together on the road. Also when Furillo got hit on the wrist by Ruben Gomez he didn't charge the mound, he went to first base and started jawing with Leo. Furillo called time and then charged the dugout andLeo came out to meet him. This also leads you to believe he didn't go after Maglie or other Giants pitchers because he new they were just following orders. Both biographers agreed his hand was stepped on breaking a finger although there is an account where Furillo said that Leo bent his finger back and broke it.

How about the dust-up between Babe Ruth and Leo when The Babe was a hitting coach for Brooklyn? Apparently, Ruth accused Leo of stealing his watch and Leo pushed The Babe into a locker and slapped him. Or something like that. Or, how about when Leo tripped the great Ty Cobb on the base paths? Cobb threatened to tear him apart and Leo laughed and called him an old man.

Good review. I lived in St Louis at the time, during my teenage heyday loving baseball.

Mike wrote: "Interesting that everyone was fascinated with checking out what color Leo's head turned while Furillo was trying to kill him. Lol. Mike I read where you said that When Maglie entered the Dodgers cl..."

By the time Maglie got to the clubhouse door, Furillo was pacified. But I can guarantee you whatever you read wasn``t exactly Furillo`s intial thought. Carl was extremely vocal about everything, just vocal enough that he was blackballed by the Dodgers. 2 biographers both gave the sugar coated version. You believe whatever you want, but know for sure the difference between the public face & the private one
Mike Linn
Furillo was ALWAYS an angry young man

So because you guarantee it Mike I'm supposed to believe it. I'll stick with Maglie and Furillo's biographers. Have you ever googled their names together? In this day and age of digging stuff up writers don't sugar coat things. I love a good debate but you've got to bring more to the table then the memories of a seven or eight year old Dodger fan. If you prove them wrong that'll be great because I always love learning something new.

Mike wrote: "Interesting that everyone was fascinated with checking out what color Leo's head turned while Furillo was trying to kill him. Lol. Mike I read where you said that When Maglie entered the Dodgers cl..."
My recollection was of the first writer-that Maglie said hey paison and they shook hands.

Michael wrote: "Mike wrote: "Interesting that everyone was fascinated with checking out what color Leo's head turned while Furillo was trying to kill him. Lol. Mike I read where you said that When Maglie entered t..."
I think he had ulcers that caused him a lot of pain. It was holding in his anger, I would imagine that helped bleed the ulcers.

Mike wrote: "How about the dust-up between Babe Ruth and Leo when The Babe was a hitting coach for Brooklyn? Apparently, Ruth accused Leo of stealing his watch and Leo pushed The Babe into a locker and slapped ..."
If that's true, it's a sad story and makes me dislike Durocher even more. Lisa, this should put the nail in his coffin for you.

Granderson is having a nice year, and I'm happy for hm. he is a sweet man. He's looking more like the kid who played in Detroit

Love the way Granderson plays the game. Let's go Mets.

Mike wrote: "So because you guarantee it Mike I'm supposed to believe it. I'll stick with Maglie and Furillo's biographers. Have you ever googled their names together? In this day and age of digging stuff up wr..."

On page 196 of Tom Clavin &Danny Peary`s book simply called "GIL HODGES",they go into detail how after Billy Loes was sold to Baltimore, his spot on the roster was indeed "THE BARBER" picked up on waivers from Cleveland. His arrival stunned Dodger fans,& Bavasi got Alston`s & Reese`s approval first. When Maglie walked into the Dodger clubhouse for the 1st time, Carl Furillo was the only player inside. Furillo of course had vowed to pummel Maglie for everything he had done. But in a well scripted speech, instead said" welcome to our side". What Maglie didn`t know, says George Vecsey, is that Bavasi gave Furillo cash to take him out for dinners &make him feel at home! I can only imagine the negotiations on that. There is another version somewhere that I know I read, but I can`t find it. So who do you believe, the sugar coating biographers, or 2 authors & the beat writer?
Mike Linn
I have time & I`m not 8 anymore, the facts I thought I knew came much later as I read everything Dodgers

Mike wrote: "Love the way Granderson plays the game. Let's go Mets."

Bad first year in NY, but living up to the promise that made the Mets pursue him. Like Insqid in the other thread, I think he's been the best overall Mets player in the postseason. Murphy was hot and had those dramatic moments but Granderson has been steady throughout.

He hits home runs, gets on base and plays hard. Will he ever again hit 40-plus home runs? Probably not, and definitely not if he continues to play half his games at Citi Field. I'll take him on my team.

Great story Mike, it's also in The Furillo Biography. I'm not sure how you figure that the two authors who wrote about Furillo and Maglie are sugar coating their stories especially when it doesn't benefit anyone, yet the two authors who wrote Hodges biography are more credible. The beat writer wasn't even there. All I questioned was your statement about Furillo having to be restrained. I said it didn't happen and you proved my point by agreeing that Furillo was the only player in the clubhouse when Maglie arrived. You can look up pages 111 and 112 in the Furillo book for further details.

Both writers were writing about 2 nasty , hard nosed guys who I believe were both dead at the time each book was written, that means they needed the permission of the families, & one false word & there`s no book. The Furillo/ clubhouse meeting was clearly orchestrated & you`re naive to think that a hard hat such as Carl went in there totally alone without some monitoring. And Hodges was much loved, so what writer has to stretch the truth about him. Up until the Brosnan book & a bit later Bouton`s, nobody squealed on anybody. You believe whatever you want, but Furillo walked around with a chip on his shoulder starting when he lost the centerfield job to young Duke Snider. It culminated in a lawsuit that began with the Dodgers releasing him while injured. When he sued to get some money, O`Malley had him blackballed. Maglie was under orders, Furillo had no fuse. Don`t buy everything you`re fed. He was restrained verbally for sure
Mike Linn
You really think that Furillo was the one guy randomally picked to greet Maglie. Gee, I might have picked the captain, Pee Wee.

Maybe verbally , but you implied physically. That's where I had the issue. In the Furillo book a TV guy was having lunch with the club house guy and they stated they were the only ones there. Plus while Carl may have had that chip on his shoulder it went away pretty quick because he and Maglie became lifelong friends and were roommates on the road. The 200 that Buzzie gave him is a good story and detailed in the book. Furillo did balk at taking Maglie out but then realized that he could have a meal at Toots Shors for 20 bucks and pocket the rest so he agreed. Buzzie was also there and told Toots to tell the guys it was on the house but that he'd pay for it later. Then he asked Carl for the money back and Carl said what money. Buzzie laughed and said just keep it. When Carl died Sal's wife called Carl's letting her know how upset he was at not being able to attend the service but Sal was already in a nursing home by then.