Queereaders discussion

In reading this blog entry - Ignoring the Debt You Owe Heinlein, I immediately noted that Time Enough for Love by Robert A. Heinlein is credited as one of the first books to have sympathetically portrayed gay characters. So of course I added it to my To-Read list.

I also heard that Guy Gabriel Kay has included queer characters in fantasy novels (don't know if it's true).

Sci-fi/Fantasy, horror, mystery, westerns, romance...what queer or queer-friendly genre works to you recommend?

Science fiction:

A Different Light by Elizabeth A. Lynn. So unusual they named a chain of gay bookstores after it. I've reread it and it holds up well.

Ethan of Athos isn't a great entrée to the Vorkosigan series, as no Vorkosigans are in the book, but it takes place in the Vorkosigan universe, so it's a good entrée to Lois McMaster Bujold's work.

Dhalgren or Babel-17 or most books by Samuel R. Delany.

Fantasy:
Magic's Pawn and the two other books in the Last Herald Mage by Mercedes Lackey.

Luck in the Shadows by Lynn Flewelling in the Nightrunner series.

Swordspoint by Ellen Kushner.

Mystery/ romance/ historical fiction:
Lord John and the Private Matter by Diana Gabaldon

There is also the Last Herald Mage series in Mercedes Lackey's immense world of Valdemar — epic fantasy.

@Julia— Oops I didn't see you mentioned Lackey. I have the Omnibus ed. and didnt recall the individual novel's names.

I find Heinlein hideously, screamingly sexist (includes inability to truly appreciate queer folk) and Guy Gavriel Kay more subtly so but the same. With apologies to fans; I don't often complain about these famous names, but just did in this group :) . Let us know how you go. I remember Time Enough for Love from my distant past.

For historical fantasy, let us not forget Manda Scott with her first series on Boudicca: brimming with gay people and storylines (at least the 1st, which is what I'm up to): Dreaming the Eagle

@Bryn I've got the Boudicca quartet waiting to be read. I might just do that next. Thanks for the reminder.

I know what you mean about Heinlein. Still I grew up with him and especially like his older works. Stranger in a Strange Land is one of my favorite Sci-Fi's and I love the juvies. I don't like the Lazarus Long books. They plodded with too much of RAH's mind-streaming.

I read a lot of Guy Gavriel Kay in the '80s, but don't remember him much, but gave him high marks. The most recent I've read is Ysabel which I really liked at lot. I certainly don't recall anything sexist or anti/pro-queer, but likely was not looking for it.

There are a couple of books I have vague memories which I probably read in the '70s or 80's which i would like to read again as they are definitely queer+

One is a pansexual Sci-Fi about a guy who explores a variety of alien cultures all with varying numbers of genders (up to 7 IIRC) and sexual mores which he had relations with. It is serious not porno and I quite enjoyed it. I've no clue to the name, author or decade, just vague pictures in my mind.

Another is even vaguer. It's a fantasy. The protagonist is a young, beautiful, gay Alexander type who gathers an army to fight the bad guys in the south. It's an epic series (I think). I remember he would sleep with his men to establish loyalty and rapport. Not much to go on, I know.

Finally there is a comedic novel, a farce of Fantasy quite sexual with a King, dwarves, elves etc. The King was cursed or something and has an orgasm that would never stop and his effluent was flooding his kingdom causing all sorts of problems. The other thing I have an image of are the dwarves. They had tough penises, wound up like a spring and traveled by springing along the roads like on a penile pogo-stick. There was all sorts of similar weirdness with lots of guffaw moments. Someone has to cure the king to save the land.

If any of these tickle the neurons in anyone, I'd sure like to know the titles or author.

One final note. I finally found my copy of Chrome a 1978 m/m romance by George Nader about a male space pilot who lands on a planet with a hunky male robot and they fall in love and get in trouble with society for perversion.

Kernos wrote: "@Bryn I've got the Boudicca quartet waiting to be read. I might just do that next. Thanks for the reminder."

It gives equal time to m & f gay people; I did find its m story on the sentimental side, but that was my only complaint. I think she has gone more mainstream with fame; I may be wrong -- are there queer characters in her Roman books?

Heinlein: Stranger was huge for me, too, legendary. I made the mistake last year of reading his Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and quite aside from its politics (not mine), my adult self cannot live with the sexism on display, although as a young thing I had mechanisms to cope and was far less aware. From memories of Time Enough, I just think he is too heterosexist, as in sort of aggressively heterosexual, even if he acts tolerantly towards a queer character. If you know what I mean.

Guy Gavriel Kay: I've only read his two China-themed books which are late in his works, and have heard that not only has his style changed but his women (indeed his characterisation) is less complex than they used to be. I can't say whether these charges are true, but still mean to try early work of his.

I think I have vague memories of your pansexual SciFi. -- Or maybe that sort of thing wasn't an uncommon plot, back in the day. :)

@Bryn Manda Scott: I have not read her Roman books. I have a big 'thing' for Boudicca and have read a lot of history about her revolt and the adjacent history. I am quite looking forward to the books.

Other genre fiction with Queer themes, I've read:

Fantasy:

The Mirador novels by Sarah Monette
Any of the books by Storm Constantine
The Chalion series by Lois McMaster Bujold
The Scion's series by Pat Nelson Childs
Stone Dance of the Chameleon series by Ricardo Pinto

Science Fiction:

Ring of Swords by Eleanor Arnason
A Woman of the Iron People by Eleanor Arnason
Ethan of Athos by Lois Mcmaster Bujold
The Second Coming by David H. Burton
The Wraiths of Will and Pleasure by Storm Constantine
Fulfilments of Fate and Desire by Storm Constantine
The Bewitchments of Love and Hate by Storm Constantine
The Enchantments of Flesh and Spirit by Storm Constantine
Aleph by Storm Constantine
The Monstrous Regiment by Storm Constantine
The Thorn Boy and Other Tales of Dark Desire by Storm Constantine
The Einstein Intersection by Samuel R. Delany
Dhalgren by Samuel R. Delany
Perils of the Gulf by E. Robert Dunn
Sidereal Quest by E. Robert Dunn
Echelon's End: Planetfall by E. Robert Dunn
Echelon’s End: Last Generation by E. Robert Dunn
The God Eaters by Jesse Hajicek
Secret Matter by Toby Johnson
The Englor Affair by J L Langley
My Fair Captain by J. L. Langley
China Mountain Zhang by Maureen F. Mchugh
The Knife of Never Letting Go by Patrick Ness
Monsters of Men by Patrick Ness
Dryland's End by Felice Picano
Shadow Man by Melissa Scott
18% Gray by Anne Tenino
Turning Tricks by Anne Tenino

Speaking of fantasy, I've discovered an '80s series that is listed as LGBT by a umber of readers: The World of Riverside series
started by Ellen Kushner and expanded by others as fiction and queer studies. The series list is rather confusing.

I'm interested in the fiction and wonder if anyone knows about or can recommend these novels. I get the feeling they are sort of cult classicy?

Kernos, I love the Riverside series by Ellen Kushner. Here are the novels in order:
Swordspoint,
The Privilege of the Sword and
The Fall of the Kings.

Then there are many short stories in the universe, and some of the stories are published in several anthologies.

When I first read your question, I confused it with the To Your Scattered Bodies Go and the Riverworld books.

Thanks Julia. I may try Riverside. I've read the Riverworld series and seen the movie. Neither are favorites.

Kernos wrote: "... One is a pansexual Sci-Fi about a guy who explores a variety of alien cultures all with varying numbers of genders (up to 7 IIRC) and sexual mores which he had relations with. It is serious not porno and I quite enjoyed it. I've no clue to the name, author or decade, just vague pictures in my mind. ..."

I doubt this is it, but your comment made me think of the Cluster series by Piers Anthony. There's a lot of weird alien sex in those.

Rick wrote: "... I doubt this is it, but your comment made me think of the Cluster series by Piers Anthony. There's a lot of weird alien sex in those. "

It could be. Thanks Chris!

Iain Banks Culture Series is placed in a distant future where virtually all of the human characters treat gender and sexuality as completely malleable. That being said, depending on which book you read humans are sometimes only bit players.

Some current queer genre writers Mostly horror but mixed)...

Lee Thomas
Robert Dunbar
Stephen Graham King
Craig L. Gidney
Poppy Z. Brite
Jameson Currier
Vince Liaguno
Chad Helder
Michael Rowe

Thanks everyone for all the great info - it's going to take time to browse through all the suggested books, but I'm sure my to-read list will grow fast. Many of these are new to me!

Greg wrote: "Thanks everyone for all the great info - it's going to take time to browse through all the suggested books, but I'm sure my to-read list will grow fast. Many of these are new to me!"

Exercise caution - I've have so many TBR books sitting around, I'll have to live to 110. It's all Goodreads fault!

Kernos wrote: "Greg wrote: "Thanks everyone for all the great info - it's going to take time to browse through all the suggested books, but I'm sure my to-read list will grow fast. Many of these are new to me!"

..."

LOL Kernos - so true!

Resurrecting this thread for a biography I found buried in my Books Read list: The Queen of Whale Cay: The Eccentric Story of 'Joe' Carstairs, Fastest Woman on Water...

My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I love resurrecting old threads. 😼

John wrote: "Resurrecting this thread for a biography I found buried in my Books Read list: The Queen of Whale Cay: The Eccentric Story of 'Joe' Carstairs, Fastest Woman on Water...

My review: htt..."

That looks like an incredibly interesting and very quirky book!

When I saw this thread my first thought were the Wraeththu books. Has anyone else read the original trilogy?

Clari wrote: "... When I saw this thread my first thought were the Wraeththu books. Has anyone else read the original trilogy?"

I haven’t yet.

Rick wrote: "Clari wrote: "... When I saw this thread my first thought were the Wraeththu books. Has anyone else read the original trilogy?"

I haven’t yet."

do you think you will give them a go any time? I really wish I had come across them as a younger person, my life might have turned out completely different :D

It’s been a series I’ve thought about suggesting to my sci-fi/fantasy book club. So it’s always been hovering in the back of my wee brain to get around to it at some point.

Rick wrote: "It’s been a series I’ve thought about suggesting to my sci-fi/fantasy book club. So it’s always been hovering in the back of my wee brain to get around to it at some point."

haha, definitely go for it, Rick, I haven't read anything quite like it, (although I must admit I am not widely read in the fantasy genre), the whole opening trilogy works very well read in succession, although the one after that didn't quite work for me.

We’ll be collecting out suggestions for next year soon. We always have too many and I try to alternate between a sci-fi and a fantasy book. And the final choice are dependent on what is available in the library system. We need to be able to ahold of a minimum of about 6-8 physical copies for people that don’t want to purchase a copy and don’t do electronic. So we’ve had to drop a few titles that people really wanted to read because there weren’t enough copies available in the system.
The pandemic shutdown really messed with the whole process as while our library was still open for curbside pickup, we couldn’t get copies on loan from other libraries for months. So we had some delays and cancelled virtual meetings and then I had to scramble to get some titles shifted around. In the end it was a terrible mess to keep a bookclub going during the pandemic. It we made it through.

It’s funny because back at the end of 2019, I was thinking about trying to restart the library’s LGBTQ+ bookclub. Now I’m glad I didn’t try to do that. Maybe in another year ...

Rick wrote: "It’s funny because back at the end of 2019, I was thinking about trying to restart the library’s LGBTQ+ bookclub. Now I’m glad I didn’t try to do that. Maybe in another year ..."

wow congratulations on keeping it going. The real life bookclub I went to was in a bookshop so has just disappeared :(
It's nice to have these online resources available for a bit of reading company, even though I do have a stack of books to read so committing to more can be overstretching.
Cross fingers that everything will calm down with covid and you can get your LGBTQ+ bookclub going, that sounds like a great venture. Where I live is too small for anything like that unfortunately.

I live in a pretty small town. If not of the university it would ... a fly speck on the map, with a county seat attached to its name. So, I’m not surprised the first lgbtq+ bookclub didn’t take hold. To be honest though, I’m thinking of doing it much more informal, more like a meet and great to talk about lgbtq+ books and issues than just a strict traditional bookclub.

Rick wrote: "I live in a pretty small town. If not of the university it would ... a fly speck on the map, with a county seat attached to its name. So, I’m not surprised the first lgbtq+ bookclub didn’t take hol..."

That sounds amazing, hopefully something the people who need it will flock to :D

Fingers-crossed