Just Literature discussion

The first book in my 'Deathsworn Arc' series.

It's probably right on the line between YA and NA as it's target demographic. It seems to be appreciated by young women, perhaps because of the strong female protagonist.

I'm currently working on a definitive update to book 2 of the series 'The Verkreath Horror' and I'm editing and finalizing the third book in the series to be titled 'The Blood Queen'.

All in all I'm expecting the series to run to about eight books. I'm publishing it in digestable chunks because that's what seems to suit the modern ebook model of delivering stories.

It's in some respects a fairly soft-core fantasy that might appeal to those new to the genre. At times it brushes with real world science and involves a little bit of philosophical debate on morality, faith and more.

You make an interesting point about the delivery of ebooks. Perhaps this chimes with the current fashion for short books to match the reduced attention span that is supposed to exist in modern life? I have my doubts about whether it's a real phenomenon or simply an attempt on the part of marketers to increase the number of books that can be squeezed out of a topic. Many writers are now producing their books in smaller chunks and these sometimes end without actually bringing the story to a satisfactory conclusion. This division of a story into several parts is nothing new, of course. LOTR is really only a single book, but has been divided into 3 volumes for several reasons, some of them simply practical. But each of the volumes can be read as a stand alone story, though not as satisfactorily as when read as a single book, I think. Writers need to make sure they're not simply chopping up a story into chunks for convenience, otherwise readers can become disenchanted. I speak as the author of a trilogy, by the way, so I understand the problems.
I'm interested to learn that you're exploring themes that should stimulate debate and hopefully provoke some thinking from your target audience. A story without an underlying theme tends to be rather empty, after all.
You talk about YA and NA and I wonder, as a writer, do you think this division actually exists, or is it a convenient labelling system for publishers? If you look at classic literature, for example, Alice in Wonderland was ostensibly written for children but appeals across the whole age range. This is true of many other works and I do puzzle over the validity of attaching age-specific labels to books. I'd be interested in your take on this.

Stuart.

First of all I've just updated my book 2:-



I love the new cover and I think the improvements I've made have been well worth the effort. Did you know Lord of the Rings is also a six book set? My sister-in-law has it as a six book boxed set, with the Trilogy each split into two books.

I think as long as each part of a series tells a story on its own readers should be satisfied. As for YA and NA, I think there is a difference. I suspect my books won't appeal much to under thirteens and are perhaps not suitable for them. I think the main demographic is 15 - 30 year olds, 40/60 male/female. It's early days yet though - I could be proven wrong. I think females identify with the strong female protagonist, but some hate her. She's a real love her or loathe her character. A marmite character perhaps.

Martyn

Martyn wrote: "Stuart.

First of all I've just updated my book 2:-



I love the new cover and I think the improvements I've made have been well worth the effort. Did you ..."

Six books for LOTR? Can't see how that would work, to be honest. But,I agree; each book should tell a story that actually ends at that point.
Re YA and NA, perhaps I've missed the meanings of these? I thought YA was young adult and started around age 13 to about 18 and NA was new adult, and started around 15 to mid 20s. But I'm probably way off. I've always tended to write for an adult readership, which, for me, means 15 up.
Good luck with your book, Martyn.

I could be wrong about YA and NA. I see YA as 9 - 15 and NA as 14 - 19 or something. They're just labels at the end of the day.

There are six volume sets! Check this out:-

http://www.mytolkienbooks.com/books-b...

Martyn wrote: "I could be wrong about YA and NA. I see YA as 9 - 15 and NA as 14 - 19 or something. They're just labels at the end of the day.

There are six volume sets! Check this out:-

http://www.mytolkienboo..."

Oh, I wasn't doubting that the LOTR 6 volume set exists, just surprised that it could be done, bearing in mind the story.

Re YA and NA, I decided to have a look. Accoring to Wikipedia, YA starts at 13, with 9-12 being Middle Grade. There's a discussion topic here on Goodreads that suggests YA is anything from 12-21 and NA is 18-30, but no one seems to really know! https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Stuart wrote: "Martyn wrote: "I could be wrong about YA and NA. I see YA as 9 - 15 and NA as 14 - 19 or something. They're just labels at the end of the day.

There are six volume sets! Check this out:-

http://w..."

It somehow doesn't surprise me nobody knows. It's probably one of those things that will always remain a bit subjective, a bit 'matter of opinion'.

Stuart wrote: "You make an interesting point about the delivery of ebooks. Perhaps this chimes with the current fashion for short books to match the reduced attention span that is supposed to exist in modern life..."

I think there might be also a further reason why books tend to be shorter: they have a shorter shelf-life on average, and the current world is one that requires the great majority of writers who want to live on the sales of their books to write a series of books in quick succession, thus shorter ones.

I think everything about the ebook market suits shorter books, probably in series.

Martyn wrote: "I think everything about the ebook market suits shorter books, probably in series."

I do wonder how many of these 'shorter' books are actually complete or simply longer books broken into smaller pieces.

I suppose technically I could make my series into one book - but it would be difficult to market. I believe at the moment it stands at about a million words, and breaking it down into smaller books seems logical and sensible.

If the entire story was only a 200,000 word story then it could work as a single title. As it stands I've written 200,000 words and not even introduced the main antagonist!

Martyn wrote: "I suppose technically I could make my series into one book - but it would be difficult to market. I believe at the moment it stands at about a million words, and breaking it down into smaller books..."

I understand your dilemma, Martyn. My trilogy, A Seared Sky, consists of 3 books all of which are around 200,000 words each. At least my first volume is published, and I'm currently doing the final 'read aloud' edit of book 3, so it will all be ready soon. Sounds as though yours should be a quintet!

To be honest, I was writing book 2, intending it to end at a certain point, and when I got to a certain point (about 60,000 words) I realised I'd told the story and was about to start a new story!

If I'd pressed on and written to where I wanted to, I'd have had a book 1 = circa 60,000 words and a book 2 circa 300,000 words and that didn't make sense at all. I don't mind the books getting longer but I think it should be proportional. At the moment 3 is about 80,000 and I expect 4 to hit 100,000 I'm not sure from there, I might condense the series down and try to wrap it up in two long books.

I feel that a lot of series nowadays are done a bit like soap operas: they put a pilot out, if it sells enough, they continue it, when sales dwindle, they move on. I'm not sure how much they are part of a plan, with due exceptions, of course, I'm talking about a trend. You wrote a trilogy: that implies a concept that over-arches the three novels; other books are more like Rambo the film...

There are stats my publishers have passed on to me: 38% of readers buy a book because they have read one in the same series... Again, it's using reading habits to sell, rather than proposing an honest work of art in many cases.

Martyn wrote: "I suppose technically I could make my series into one book - but it would be difficult to market. I believe at the moment it stands at about a million words, and breaking it down into smaller books..."

You're mad...and there's nothing I admire more than madness!

Every story has a length and an amount of text that it needs to be told.

I expect my second series which I'm currentl;y planning will take less books but the books will be longer.

Martyn wrote: "To be honest, I was writing book 2, intending it to end at a certain point, and when I got to a certain point (about 60,000 words) I realised I'd told the story and was about to start a new story! ..."

No real reason why books should all be the same length, even if presented as a trilogy. Look at the Harry potter series and you'll see they vary widely in length. I think the story is the story, and settles at the length that carries it, rather than having to suffer an artificial word count.

Adriano wrote: "I feel that a lot of series nowadays are done a bit like soap operas: they put a pilot out, if it sells enough, they continue it, when sales dwindle, they move on. I'm not sure how much they are pa..."

Yes, I've seen this sort of thing. In fact, a lot of readers have been disappointed at having started reading a series only to discover it's no longer continuing. That's why I made sure I'd written all 3 of my books before I submitted the first volume for publication. Okay, I'm still on the final edit, but the way I work makes the editing as time-consuming and crucial as the initial creation. But my readers can buy in the firm knowledge that the series is finished. I think that's only fair to readers.

I have an end, I'm committed to finishing the series. I think some authors lose out because nobody wants to buy the first book of an obvious series when there are no later books!

When I read Inheritance Cycle, I had to wait for the last book 'Inheritance' that was very irritating. I ended up buying the hard-cover just to cut down the wait!