Around the Year in 52 Books discussion
Progress Posts 2016
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38: A book about an anti hero
Just a note for people still deciding on books for this week; Anti-hero is not the same thing as villain. So the book for this week doesn't have to have a villain or outright evil or bad character as the protagonist.Anti-hero simply means a character atypical to the normal hero archetype. So, any character with qualities other than the typical hero qualities of courage, bravery, honesty, morality etc. would be considered an anti-hero. An anti-hero can still be a good character, but they may embody qualities that are not considered heroic. Think Han Solo (in anticipation of the new movie). He is a great example of an anti-hero.
Edit - I realize the progress posts are not open until next year, and I wasn't trying to stimulate discussion. My post was specifically about the fact that an anti-hero is not a villain as was suggested in the theme description, and relevant prior to 2016 as people are in the process of creating their lists now.
I'm not sure if this one really fits perfectly, but I'm planning on The Phantom of the Opera. I read it once while I was in high school after seeing the movie and was thrown off by how different it was, so I would love to give it another try.
People, the progress posts are not opened until 2016, thanks ;)
Reading Paradise Lost. The greatest anti-hero of them all.I've heard really good things about this and it's been on my list for awhile now.
I saw it on the list, how could I resist?
I appreciate a good anti-hero. Never really cared for the pure black/white moralities. Good is a matter of perspective.
I'm not all that familiar with the subject matter of Paradise Lost, but isn't it about Satan and a war in Hell? I wouldn't say Satan is an anti-hero at all. Wouldn't he be clearly defined as a villain.Anti-hero does not equal villain. They are two completely different, almost opposite character types. An anti-hero is another form of hero, albeit one that does not follow the typical hero arc or possess qualities typical of the normal hero archetype. The "anti" in anti-hero does not mean "not" a hero. It means atypical or irregular to the archetype.
Villains are bad. It is possible to have villain protagonists, but they are still villains and they are still bad in some way. A villain protagonist just means the story is told from their perspective, but they are still identifiable as the villain, not the hero.
Anti-heros, however are not villains. They may not be nice characters, or they may have selfish and less than heroic qualities or motivations, but they are still good.
For example - Harry Potter is a hero. He is brave, loyal and talented. He goes through a traditional hero cycle where he is defined as the hero, he accepts the role and continues to match up against the villains of the series.
Locke Lamora (from the Gentleman Bastards series) is an anti-hero. He is a thief, motivated by money, and morally ambiguous. He is not strong or brave or good in a fight and often fights dirty or relies on his quick wit and intellect. He is not a normal hero. Ultimately he is forced into a situation in which he chooses to do what is best for others. He does not accept his role as the hero however and although he chooses the "good" course of actions, he negotiates a significant benefit to himself at the same time. He is not motivated to help others by the goodness of his heart, but he still recognizes what right and wrong in the grand scheme of things.
Macbeth (from Shakespeare) is a villain protagonist. His actions are motivated by his desire for more power. He kills others to achieve his goals. He is clearly defined as the "bad guy" in the play, while Duncan is the hero. The story is told from Macbeth's perspective though making him the protagonist, and the villain.
Maybe I'm nitpicking, but this is a very specific distinction that bothers me when people get it mixed up.
Paradise Lost is about Satan and his war on heaven, but he is portrayed as an anti-hero as opposed to the villain. It is a rather controversial portrayal, but it counts. It's also on the anti-hero list up there.
I'm not saying it doesn't count. Like I said, I'm not familiar with the novel at all, other than knowing it's about Satan. I would just assume he would be a villain protagonist, but that does depend on the way he is portrayed in the book.As far as that list goes though, I wouldn't trust it. Anyone on Goodreads can make a list and by the list's own description, it is specifically listing books with characters who are "villainous" or disqualified "from being true heroes". Again, that's not what an anti-hero is. An anti-hero IS a true hero. They may be reluctant or out for themselves, but they are still the hero of the story, even if they don't appear to be a traditional hero.
Paradise Lost is twice in the anti-hero page on Wikipedia, so it qualifies for this category.
Mod
Peter, if you want to continue talking about what does/does not qualify as an anti-hero then feel free to create an off-topic thread. Let's not scare the other members away from the thread, please.
I read A Game of Thrones by George R.R. Martin.I saw it in a list, probably from the recommendations topic and since I already planned to reread the book I choose this book.
I can't think of any at the moment but I don't always hate the villain. Life is not black and white.
1: What are you reading this week?The Gospel of Loki
2: What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week?
Since Loki is a bad guy, I thought it would fit well with this week. After reading what Peter wrote about anti-hero, Loki isn't actually an anti-hero, but I don't care I want to read this book ;)
3: Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
I saw it on Zaz' plan.
4: Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain?
Right know I can't think of anybody, but I like when characters feel "real" and aren't the perfect, courageous and altruist heroes. It gives them more dimensions.
Again trying to get through some classics.
1: What are you reading this week?Ptolemy's Gate by Jonathan Stroud
2: What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week? Actually, I read it first for another category, but then I noticed that this one was perfect for the anti hero category, because the main characters are Nathaniel (aka John Mandrake) who is an arrogant magician full of ambitions and Bartimaeus, a powerful djinni, also arrogant but in a funny way.
3: Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?It is on the list of suggestions, but I didn't know before read it.
4: Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain? I liked the series of Artemis Fowl, who is also a very peculiar hero. And have loved many others villains just because I can feel that they are not really completely bad guys :P
Mod
I guess there's a murder and I believe the main character is eventually tried for it. I'm assuming she starts out being viewed as a victim in the case since she's a close friend. I may end up placing it somewhere else if she doesn't turn out to be much of an anti-hero.
I think I found it on one of the suggestion lists but it's been on my list for a while now so I don't remember for sure.
The only book that comes to mind is The Likeness with Cassie as the main character. She's very flawed but is still the main detective so is a bit of an anti-hero. I haven't read the Dexter series but loved the series. He's the biggest anti-hero I can think of.
1: What are you reading this week? The Vampire Lestat
2: What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week?
3: Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
My daughter finally convinced me to read it. I read Interview with the Vampire years ago and both loved it and was a bit traumatized by it. My daughter is on the third book of the series, and she is also doing this challenge and assures me that this book completely qualifies for this category.
4: Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain?
I love to hate the villain, and so this was a hard category for me. I did just finish reading and consider using Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows (Snape), but I wanted it for another category.
1: What are you reading this week? I'm reading Rogue2: What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week? I'm still not 100% sure it's quite right for this category, but I'm going with the attitude that Sophie has above with I don't really care as I'm reading it and enjoying it. Rogue is an immortal assassin, but he is lovable and rescues the girl. I'm saying those qualities put him as an anti-hero.
3: Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"? No, no and no. I was given it by the author as a read for review and after starting it thought it would fit nicely (or nice enough for me) for this topic.
4: Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain? I've not really thought about anti-heroes before and don't always hate the villain.
I would say it does. I don't think many would argue that Dr. Frankenstein was a hero by any stretch of the imagination :)
Manda wrote: "I would say it does. I don't think many would argue that Dr. Frankenstein was a hero by any stretch of the imagination :)"I agree!
(view spoiler)
I agree with you Jody! And also that this book fits well in this category.
I actually think this could be one of the very few books I re-read. I feel like I miss it already, even though I only read it last year.
I also think I will re-read it at some point! It's so rich, I don't think I've taken it all in during the first read.
1: What are you reading this week?American Psycho
2: What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week?
I've seen the movie but I've never read the book and I've been meaning to for a long time.
3: Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
It was on one of Goodreads' lists of anti-heroes. I was actually quite surprised that people thought of him as an anti-hero because I don't think I'd consider him to be one but I'm looking forward to reading it and finding out. Plus I wanted to fit the book into my challenge somewhere and it fit in this topic.
4: Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain?
I tend to enjoy villains and anti-heroes, especially when they're well written and charismatic and/or what I like to describe as fabulously evil or deliciously nasty. I consider Jaime Lannister to be an anti-hero and I absolutely love him! I also love Cersei Lannister because she's just so enjoyable to read and/or watch for me.
Ooh, Jaime & Cersei are two of my favourite characters - Tywin too. And Tyrion. I guess I'm Team Lannister. :)
The Lannisters are my favourites! I wasn't sure if Tyrion counted as an anti-hero or not but I love him too!
1: What are you reading this week?I read The Stranger for this week.
2: What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week?
I knew my Mom had a copy that I could borrow, but then I ended up finding it at a Little Free Library. Thus, I got it read a lot earlier than expected--I figured I'd get it done in the summer when I was home.
3: Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
It was on the anti-hero list.
4a: Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book?
My favorite anti-hero is Scarlett O'Hara from Gone with the Wind. She does what it takes to keep her family afloat!
4b: Do you always choose to hate the villain?
Pretty much. I even hate characters who are anti-heroes, like Snape. He is actually a horrid person who never deserved Lily!
What are you reading this week?Fever City by Tim Baker
What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week?
I've never really thought much about anti-heroes until I had to find a book for this challenge and Fever City fits perfectly with the character of Hastings.
Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
This was a book I received to review.
Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain?
No, but I'm really looking forward to reading more of Hastings.
Emily wrote: "Snape. He is actually a horrid person who never deserved Lily! "This deserves a virtual high five! Yes to finding another person that doesn't like Snape!
1: What are you reading this week?I read John Dies at the End
2: What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week?
I googled anti-hero books and this one was recommended.
3: Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
It was a recommendation on a list of anti-hero books.
4: Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain?
It seems like many books with a romance component have the girl falling in love with the bad guy. That kind of bugs me. Most of the time I do not like them.
1. What are you reading this week?Where'd You Go, Bernadette
2: What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week?
It was on a list somewhere--can't remember where.
3: Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
It wasn't on the suggestion list.
4: Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain?
Snape, in the Harry Potter books.
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Right now, I am reading Dumb Luck by Vu Trong Phung. This has been on my to read list for a long time and I thought it would be a good fit for the category. A poor street guy in Vietnam gets fired from his job at a tennis court for spying on women changing their clothes. He is then taken in by a wealthy family and he becomes very successful, not from hard work or intelligence, but because of his luck and because people don't want to uncover the lies they have been telling about him. This book is pretty funny.
I don't think I have ever thought that much about antiheroes before, but I will pay more attention now.
I just finished a re-read of Mary Gaitskill's 'Veronica.' I would say that Gaitskill is in general an anti-heroine novelist. The great thing about this story is how Veronica goes from being a superficial, very exploitable young woman into a person with a rich interior life. The irony is that she loses just about all material gain in the process, even her health; and she becomes a bigger, more complex person. Another good thing about the book is how Gaitskill reveals this growth so subtly and slowly. You really have to pay attention and not look for the usual expressions/forms/expectations of redemption. Another great thing about 'Veronica' is that Gaitskill is a one-of-a-kind writer. A poet.
1: What are you reading this week?I'm reading The Lies of Locke Lamora, by Scott Lynch
2: What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week?'
I'm reading it for a book club, and I looked at the anti-hero list and realized it was on it.
3: Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
It was recommended, but I also found it on the anti-hero suggestion list.
4: Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain?
I love the complexities and nuances which anti-heroes offer to a text, nothing is ever black and white. Anti-heroes are probably the most human of characters. I love the Game of Thrones characters for this reason, along with Frankenstein, Dorian Grey and Snape.
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What are you reading this week?I Am Not A Serial Killer
What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week?
It was the title that drew me in. From the cover it seems like our leading man knows he's not the best human being, but he realizes there is a far worse side to him, and he doesn't want to be that person.
Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
I randomly stumbled upon it and it seemed fitting for this category.
Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain?
There have been many villains I have fallen in love with, and heroes I have detested. It all comes down to story, plot, and writing.
1: What are you reading this week?
2: What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week?
I picked this one in the end, because I heard so many good things about it and I wanted to read more of V.E. Schwab since I didn't liked A Darker Shade of Magic that much, but I want to give her writing another chance.
3: Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
I have it from the anti-hero list here from goodreads and no I haven't read this before.
4: Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain?
Kaz from Six of Grows is awesome.
1: What are you reading this week?I'm reading The Phantom of the Opera
2: What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week?
Honestly, it was mostly because of the Phantom's role in the movie/play. In those, he is very clearly an anti-hero to me because as horrible as some of his behaviour is, you can't help but feel bad for him and root for him to some degree.
3: Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
I have actually read it once before, but I don't remember anything about the book. I first read it about 12 years ago, not long after seeing the movie version with Gerard Butler and seeing the play. I expected the book to be the same, so I was pretty thrown off when I found that it was quite different.
4: Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain?
Aside from Snape, I can't really think of any characters offhand who I'd classify as an anti-hero...except maybe Megamind, or Gru from Despicable Me, lol.
What are you reading this week?The Postman
What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week?
I have watched the movie and saw the book on sale at my local library.
Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
I just lucked out when I picked it up at the library sale.
Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain?
Generally I like the good guy. If a book has an interesting premise then I will read it whether it has a good guy or villain as the main character.
1: What are you reading this week?
Elric Of Melniboné by Michael Moorcock
2: What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week?
The author, Michael Moorcock, influenced my selection. One of his books appeared as a Goodreads giveaway offering and caught my attention. Upon further investigation, I discovered that he was a Damon Knight Memorial Grand Master who I had never heard of, nevertheless read, before!
3: Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
I discovered it while browsing the group's suggestion list. When Moorcock's name appeared as an author of one of the books, I promptly seized the opportunity to familiarize myself with his work by including Elric Of Melniboné in this challenge.
4: Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain?
Some of the books that I have really enjoyed in the past feature antiheroes who you just cannot hate. The titles that first come to my mind are The Gospel of Loki, Clovenhoof, The Bartimaeus Trilogy Boxed Set, and Grendel.
What are you reading this week?The Revenge Of Captain Paine by Andrew Pepper
What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week?
This is the second book in the series. I read the first one some time ago and liked it , so went on to read this one
Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
As above
Do you have any other favourite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain?
Can't think of any at the moment
1: What are you reading this week?Book from the Ground
2: What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week?
Hmm. The hero in this 24-hours-lasting story is a rather average, anonymous chinese office worker, but I'd sort him into the prick/jerk category although I could identify in some aspects, too (like forgetting the time before going to work because of a book). He reads his private mail at work, lust after some busty female co-workers, tries online-dating and reveals quite shallow, sexist views ....
3: Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
I read it anyway and found that it would fit - in my opinion.
4: Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain?
I definitely need being able to care for the hero/the heroine of the book. But that doesn't really depend on that person's character, but on the author's skill. For instance I despised Froi in Finnikin of the Rock ( he is only 14, but already a cold-heated rapist and he is somewhat speech impaired and sullen), but Marchetta transformed him into one of my alltime favorite heroes in the sequel Froi of the Exiles.
This might be far fetched, but does Lisbeth Salander counts as a anti-hero? I think she has a sense of morality, but then the way she goes about punishing the people that are guilty of the crime is kind of....well...she doesn't go by the laws either. I read the first book in the trilogy, haven't gotten around to the second one!
Caffeinated Book wrote: "This might be far fetched, but does Lisbeth Salander counts as a anti-hero? I think she has a sense of morality, but then the way she goes about punishing the people that are guilty of the crime is..."I think she definitely counts. Her means and actions may be questionable but in her mind she's doing what she feels is right and justified so I think that makes her an anti-hero.
Francesca wrote: "Caffeinated Book wrote: "This might be far fetched, but does Lisbeth Salander counts as a anti-hero? I think she has a sense of morality, but then the way she goes about punishing the people that a..."Okay, thank you~
I second that. She definitely sounds like an anti-hero.
What did you read?A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
What made you pick this book for the anti-hero ?
I didn't really. I was reading it for another reason and it seemed to fit.
Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
Like I said above, it seemed to fit and I was already reading it.
Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain?
I like Dexter, Artemis Fowl, Johannes Cabal. Many times the villain is more entertaining than the other characters. I recently read a book where there was a hitwoman who had a more appealing character than anyone else in the book.
1: What are you reading this week?Inheritance
( reading )2: What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week? because I've been mean to do so for a while and its the last book in the Inheritance series
3: Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?no its been on my TBR for a long while
4: Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain. for me it could go both ways .
1: What are you reading this week?The Picture of Dorian Gray
2: What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week?
I like classic novels, especially if they're relatively short!
3: Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
It was on the list, and I remember a friend recommending it in high school. I had meant to read it then, but it never happened, so I figured this was as good a time as any!
4: Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain?
Not really, I generally don't like anti-heroes. I prefer reading about characters that are courageous and try to do the right thing. Not that I don't like flawed characters, but I prefer characters with good intentions (even if they make mistakes). I think that's why watching Game of Thrones feels like a chore for me.
Around the Year in 52 Books
Books mentioned in this topic
Wuthering Heights (other topics)Mary Anne vs. Logan (other topics)
Artemis Fowl (other topics)
Vicious (other topics)
The Catcher in the Rye (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Gillian Flynn (other topics)Michael Moorcock (other topics)
Oscar Wilde (other topics)
Kazuo Ishiguro (other topics)
Anthony Burgess (other topics)
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Suggestions:
Best Antiheroes In Books
For those of you reading in order, this is week: September 16-September 22. Don't forget to post in the A-Z title folders!
1: What are you reading this week?
2: What made you pick this book for the anti-hero week?
3: Have you read this before, was it recommended, or did you find it on our "anti-hero suggestion list"?
4: Do you have any other favorite anti-heroes in another book, or do you always choose to hate the villain?