Brain Pain discussion

This discussion covers Chapter XV – XXI, page 202 – 308





To avoid spoilers, please limit your comments to page 1 – 308.

"Voices crying behind them never reached through the waters in which they were now sunk. The repetition of Hewet's name in short, dissevered syllables was to them the crack of a dry branch or the laughter of a bird. The grasses and breezes sounding and murmuring all round them, they never noticed that the swishing of the grasses grew louder and louder, and did not cease with the lapse of the breeze. A hand dropped abrupt as iron on Rachel's shoulder; it might have been a bolt from heaven. She fell beneath it, and the grass whipped across her eyes and filled her..."

Woolf, Virginia (2012-05-17). The Voyage Out (p. 186). Kindle Edition.

This is a strange passage. Rachel and Terence, ecstatic with their newly professed love for each other, seem to be running ahead of the others in the expedition to a local village. Then, suddenly, Rachel seems to be falling—perhaps because Helen pushed her down into the grass? Does anyone know what is happening here? Is it a lapse into stream of consciousness?

Sheila wrote: ""Voices crying behind them never reached through the waters in which they were now sunk. The repetition of Hewet's name in short, dissevered syllables was to them the crack of a dry branch or the l..."

I remember being confused by this passage too. What chapter is it in?

Chapter 21

Jim wrote: "Sheila wrote: ""Voices crying behind them never reached through the waters in which they were now sunk. The repetition of Hewet's name in short, dissevered syllables was to them the crack of a dry ..."

Sheila wrote: ""Voices crying behind them never reached through the waters in which they were now sunk. The repetition of Hewet's name in short, dissevered syllables was to them the crack of a dry branch or the l..."

I remember reading it again and again in case I missed something. I hesitate to call it a hallucination. I concluded it was a sort of dream, or nightmare, symbolizing her frame of mind, a state of turmoil with warring and strange emotions. She has been subjected to so many different experiences in such a short space of time - Helen's words about men, Richard Dalloway's advances, which disturbed yet did not displease her, the free exchange of ideas, the intimacy of these exchanges, and above all, the love between her and Terence.

Cphe, you wonder if they are suited - who knows? They are candid, I like them both, so yes.

Cphe wrote: "Do you feel Rachel and Terence are suited? (as a couple)"

My first instinct is yes. But I'm not sure either of them is particularly suited to marriage. They both seem to struggle with the overall constructs of what a happy marriage looks like. I think Terence will be able to fall into married life easier than Rachel.

Sheila wrote: ""Voices crying behind them never reached through the waters in which they were now sunk. The repetition of Hewet's name in short, dissevered syllables was to them the crack of a dry branch or the l..."

This was a very odd passage. I too read it several times. I finally concluded that she had fainted and had some kind of hallucination or vision but I'm really not sure...

"While Christ spoke they made another effort to fit his interpretation of life upon the lives they lived, but as they were all very different, some practical, some ambitious, some stupid, some wild and experimental, some in love, and others long past any feeling except a feeling of comfort, they did very different things with the words of Christ."

Woolf, Virginia (2012-05-17). The Voyage Out (p. 149). . Kindle Edition.

I smiled at this passage -- the description of how wildly varied are the members of a congregation (audience, group of readers, ..., to extend the passage to metaphor) and hence how differently they comprehend the same words. But particularly I smiled at "others long past any feeling except a feeling of comfort" as apropos to any collection of well-heeled elderly parishioners -- or tourists -- or charity board -- or ...

Even while acknowledging the probable of "truth" of what Woolf had written and Rachel observed, my modest mid-western background and American sentiments of equality rankled slightly as the denigration of the ability of the simple nurse to understand: "How indeed, could she conceive anything far outside her own experience, a woman with a commonplace face like hers, a little round red face, upon which trivial duties and trivial spites had drawn lines, whose weak blue eyes saw without intensity or individuality, whose features were blurred, insensitive, and callous?..." An internal justification of class difference developing within Rachel?

Ibid., p. 150. Chapter XVII.

Lily wrote: ""An internal justification of class difference developing within Rachel?"

"Why do the lower orders do any of the things they do do? Nobody knows."

"Directly you look at an English person, of the middle classes, you were conscious of an indefinable sensation of loathing."

Seems to be standard practice among the idle rich. And Rachel is a fine one to talk about conceiving of anything far outside her own experience!

Sheila wrote: "...Then, suddenly, Rachel seems to be falling—perhaps because Helen pushed her..."

I found myself asking why some editor hadn't stripped this passage from the text, it seemed so not to belong. At times, the genius of this book to me is the sense it is taking me along for the ride as the author's mind slips into one of her periods of mental disturbance. To me this passage seemed one where VW's pen captured some of the ambiguity around sexual identity that existed for her -- and the Bloomsbury set.

PS (view spoiler)[ Perhaps it is a foreshadowing of Rachel's coming illness? (hide spoiler)]

Mkfs wrote: "...And Rachel is a fine one to talk about conceiving of anything far outside her own experience! ..."

True. But within the scope of her rather limited resources (familial support, education, ...), isn't she trying rather valiantly? She seems to have only her mind (almost completely untrained), her feelings, her music, Helen, some money, and these rather exotic travels as resources upon which to draw.

Chapter XXI
North America had a famous Scottish explorer Alexander Mackenzie. Is the "Mackenzie" here as an explorer of the Amazon River a historic figure, or has VW simply used the name? I haven't been able to verify.

Lily wrote: "Chapter XXI
North America had a famous Scottish explorer Alexander Mackenzie. Is the "Mackenzie" here as an explorer of the Amazon River a historic figure, or has VW simply used the name? I haven't..."

The Barnes & Noble edition of the book footnotes this Mackenzie as "Fictitious explorer."

Casceil wrote: "The Barnes & Noble edition of the book footnotes this Mackenzie as "Fictitious explorer."

Thank you, Casceil.