The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

I love the book so far - it took all my willpower to stop reading so I wouldn't have to worry about giving out spoilers in any discussions.

Okay, some questions to start the discussion:

One, how does each character connect to one another at this point in the novel: John Harmon, the Hexams (Gaffer, Lizzie and Charlie), Mortimer Lightwood, Eugene Wrayburn, Reginald Wilfer, and Bella Wilfer? It was a bit confusing, but with the exception of Silas Wegg and Noddy Boffin in Chapter 5 (at least for now), there are apparent links between the characters.

Two, given Dickens' tendency to have opposing female characters, how do you think that Lizzie and Bella fit this mold (at least at this point in the novel)?

Three, does the beginning of the novel - Gaffer pulls up the body of John Harmon while looking for "treasurers" found in the river - set a tone for the book? Or does Chapter 2 at the home of the Veneerings set the tone? In other words, is the novel grim and dreary or a bit amusing?

Four, we have a bit of a mystery when it comes to Julius Handford and John Rokesmith. What is the mystery?

Five, Noddy Boffin (to me) seems as if he's going to be another one of Dickens' lovable characters. Do you agree?

This was an interesting start with many characters which confused me at first, but as you, Lynnm, mentioned they are somehow linked together already at this point of time.
We actually get a crime story here at first with John Harmon as the murdered victim, found by the Hexams in the Thames, and whose fate is being discussed over dinner until his death is known.
John Harmon's story is an interesting one, being forced by a will to marry someone who the writer of the will met when she was 4 or 5 years old. I got a little lost here when reading it on my iPad. I will read this once again during the week in the paper version. At least Bella was the girl to be married.

In general, I found the setting and the characters rather on the gloomy and bleak side, though the dinner scene with all the different participants made it a little lighter. There seems to be a lot of mysteries and connections in the novel and I am curious how this will continue. Bella's father seems to be the clerk in the company owned by the host of the merry dinner party.

With regards to the female characters, I will have to rethink this a little.
Both, Lizzie and Bella seem to be ambitious in their ways, different to previous female characters. However, Lizzie is interested in broadening her horizon by reading and learning, but her father would not allow it. For now she seems to accept this fate. So we will see how this turns out.
Bella, on the other hand, seems to be quite a character. Obviously, she has a reason to be angry about this engagement affair, but she also seems to be eager to get out of her family's state of poverty. She wants to improve herself.

To your question 4, which is a good one, I think I have missed following all the names. I remember that both are strangers and Rokesmith who is lodging with Bella's family is considered a murderer and a robber by Bella and her sister Lavinia. There was a little passage alluding to them being twin brothers (a constellation we have found in BH as well).

I will go through my paper version during the week and check once again my marks and comments to get them all straightened out. I have really had an issue to follow everything and especially everyone from the beginning compared to all other novels. Maybe it was my reading situation which differed today a little from my usual ways.

I was also a bit confused with all the different characters being introduced, but I think it's a sign of Dickens' more complex plotting. I really liked Bella who is not at all the sweet young heroine, not sure about Lizzie yet.

The first scene is literally dark and foggy, with lower class characters, then we have the glittering dinner party, with upper class types. the Wilfers are struggling to be middle class.

The last chapter is amusing with the room divided into the wife's "fashionable" area and the husband's practical one. And the idea of hiring someone to read The Rise and Fall of the Roman (not "Rooshian") Empire is rather charming. It was a real windfall to Silas. I'd love to have someone pay me to read to them!

Hedi wrote: "This was an interesting start with many characters which confused me at first, but as you, Lynnm, mentioned they are somehow linked together already at this point of time.
We actually get a crime s..."

Hedi - I had the same type of issues - I had to read it over a couple of times to get everything straight. Now it is clear in my mind, but it took awhile to get there.

Robin wrote: "I was also a bit confused with all the different characters being introduced, but I think it's a sign of Dickens' more complex plotting. I really liked Bella who is not at all the sweet young heroi..."

I like Bella too - she seems like what a regular young woman might be like. Not a bad person - and hey, who wants to be poor, don't blame her for complaining about that - although a bit on the vain side about her hair. But not to the point that it makes her unlikable.

The chapter with Noddy and Silas was amusing. I'm not sure though if I would like to have someone read to me - it would depend on their voice and how well they read!

I like how Dickens sometimes plays around with names. Like the Veneerings - a veneer is a porcelain plate to disguise bad teeth. First we meet the Hexams, who show us the dark side of life and London (the "teeth"), and then we meet the Veneerings, who never allow anything unpleasant to show up in their lives. I think both set the scene for the rest of the novel; they show both sides of life.

I didn't particularly like Bella when I read the book before, but I do appreciate that she's not Dickens' usual submissive "leading" lady.

Lori wrote: "I like how Dickens sometimes plays around with names. Like the Veneerings - a veneer is a porcelain plate to disguise bad teeth. First we meet the Hexams, who show us the dark side of life and Lond..."

Veneer is also a thin surface on furniture such as a table, which seems to fit with the dinner party. It covers up cheaper wood by giving the impression of something costlier.

I also had to reread this opening section to get all the characters straight in my mind. There seems to be an underlying theme of social climbing-Lizzie and Charlie hope to improve themselves by education, the Veneerings are clearly trying to buy their way into society (interesting that he started as a "traveller and commission agent" but clearly worked his way into a partnership and then into taking over the company) and Bella hoping to marry her way out of poverty.

I do think the Boffinses (that's even fun to say!) will be interesting and amusing characters-and I suspect that Wegg may not be able to take as much advantage of them as he is planning!

Frances wrote: "I also had to reread this opening section to get all the characters straight in my mind. There seems to be an underlying theme of social climbing-Lizzie and Charlie hope to improve themselves by ed..."

I didn't like the way that chapter ended....I also hope that Wegg is unable to take advantage of the Boffines.

Lori wrote: "I like how Dickens sometimes plays around with names. Like the Veneerings - a veneer is a porcelain plate to disguise bad teeth. First we meet the Hexams, who show us the dark side of life and Lond..."

Thanks for that information. I always forget to figure out what the names may mean even though I know that Dickens uses names that match the characters' personalities.

Only two chapters in so far, but I'm loving it. The juxtaposition of the creepy river boat search and the fashionable party was what set the tone for me. I think there will be lots of tags versus riches in this book as there was in Little Dorrit.

Even in two chapters there are a lot of characters, but so far no one way over the top as Dickens often goes.

My favorite character so far is Twemlow. The bits with him at the party cracked me up.

Robin wrote: "I was also a bit confused with all the different characters being introduced, but I think it's a sign of Dickens' more complex plotting. I really liked Bella who is not at all the sweet young heroi..."

I liked this literal mistake of "Rooshan" vs. "Roman", too. At first, I thought of Russian or Prussian, but as I have the book myself, I was wondering whether it should not be Roman. The best part is the reply of Mr Boffin after the clarification: What is the difference?

I also liked the separated room into a "his and her corner" (as an analogy to his and her sink in the bathroom), according to to Mr. Boffin it ensures sociability, fashion and comfort.

The Boffins' premises reminded me a little of Mr. Wemmick's castle in GR. At least the Bower was described in a similar poetic, dreamy way as Wemmick's castle.

Renee wrote: "My favorite character so far is Twemlow. The bits with him at the party cracked me up."

I liked him too, but then he disappeared for the rest of what we read for the week.

Dickens seems to allude once again to the legal system in form of Mr. Mortimer Lightwood and Mr. Eugene Wrayburn.

I had to laugh about their commenting on their professions. Generally speaking, the law was considered a very honourable occupation. So both studied the law due to the pressure by the family, but they ridicule about their families having a precious solicitor/ barrister.

We will have to see whether Dickens once more satirizes the British legal system as in his previous novels, e.g. BH.

One major issue I had when reading was the character of Twemlow in the beginning of chapter 2. He is almost described as a piece of furniture acquired by and having been at the Veneerings for a long time.

"There was an innocent piece of dinner-furniture that went upon easy castors and was kept over a livery stable-yard in Duke Street, Saint James's, when not in use, to whom the Veneerings were a source of blind confusion. The name of this article was Twemlow."

I am curious whether he will play a larger role in this novel or whether he is just a piece of decoration in the Veneerings' household.

To add something to the murder mystery I just want to mention the fact that John Harmon was seen with a valise with more than 700 pounds in ready money, which was obviously not found with the body. So where might it be?
He was seen by the ship's steward Job Potterson and Jacob Kibble, a fellow passenger.
I must admit I had rather forgotten those secondary characters again and I am curious whether all the names we have encountered so far will have a significance to the story. We still do have many pages to go. ;-)

Lori wrote: "I like how Dickens sometimes plays around with names. Like the Veneerings - a veneer is a porcelain plate to disguise bad teeth. First we meet the Hexams, who show us the dark side of life and Lond..."

Thanks, Lori. The part about the names is interesting. I did not know the word "veneer".

Robin wrote: "Lori wrote: "I like how Dickens sometimes plays around with names. Like the Veneerings - a veneer is a porcelain plate to disguise bad teeth. First we meet the Hexams, who show us the dark side of ..."

Interesting! :-)

Frances wrote: "I also had to reread this opening section to get all the characters straight in my mind. There seems to be an underlying theme of social climbing-Lizzie and Charlie hope to improve themselves by ed..."

Good point, Frances. You are right about the Veneerings. Everything is new and they throw the big dinner parties which are considered excellent. As Reginald Wilfer is the clerk in a/ the company owned by Veneering they might have come from a poorer background and made their way up.

So they might already have achieved what Bella and Lizzie are aiming for. At the moment it seems that Bella just wants to advance monetarily, though Lizzie wants to advance intellectually. But I think we will have to learn more about them to be able to judge this properly.

Wow! So far, I really enjoy the characters and the plot of this Dickens novel! Throughout reading the five chapters, I had to look back at the characters and how they are all connected with one another.

John Harmon is the "murdered" victim where he would have been given his father's fortune if he married Bella Wilfer. The Haxams, (Gaffer and Lizzie) found the body of John Harmon while looking for treasure. It was quite confusing but once you link the characters all together it contains a perfect Dickens novel plot.

I read all the responses and a lot of you guys seem to like Bella. I on the other hand, got a different impression. I like the character of Lizzie because I feel like she is trying to progress herself (by reading and educating herself etc) and not at all like Bella. I understand the Bela would be upset with losing the fortune (because of John Harmon's death) but, I just had a different impression because of her spite and only cares about her fortune. However, this might develop or change as the novel progresses, but that is impression I got from her.

I already can see a contrast with themes perhaps. One, where people try or want to progress with money (Gaffer Hexam, Bella Wilfer, the Veneers) while others progress through their work and education such as Lizzie and maybe other characters as the novel progresses.

There might be criticism of the legal system like within the novel, Bleak House, but more in regards to how society tries to progress or get ahead. I might be totally off! There is already a tone from Gaffer pulling up John Harmon while looking for treasures and the Veneers building their fortune and image. I think the tone sets a dark, yet more importantly, a satirical tone.

I agree, Jackie. None of the Wilfer women seem particularly pleasant. Although it's still early. Lizzie is the only female who garners real sympathy, and that because of her relationship with her brother, Charley. I hope Dickens doesn't decide to kill them off for emotional impact.

Hedi wrote: "Bella just wants to advance monetarily, though Lizzie wants to advance intellectually."

Nicely put, and true.

Although, I still think there is more to Bella than meets the eye, and Lizzie has her father standing in her way.

Jackie wrote: "There might be criticism of the legal system like within the novel, Bleak House, but more in regards to how society tries to progress or get ahead. I might be totally off! There is already a tone from Gaffer pulling up John Harmon while looking for treasures and the Veneers building their fortune and image. I think the tone sets a dark, yet more importantly, a satirical tone. "

I think you are on the mark! The novel does seem to be about getting ahead...both legitimately and not so legitimately. And I can't say more because of spoilers, but second week's chapters have some of these same things.

Renee wrote: "I agree, Jackie. None of the Wilfer women seem particularly pleasant. Although it's still early. Lizzie is the only female who garners real sympathy, and that because of her relationship with her b..."

I hope he doesn't kill them off as well, especially Lizzie. Dickens has done that before with his female characters.

And I think that Lizzie's entire situation makes the reader empathetic towards her: what her father does for a living, and the fact that she has to watch over him and her brother.

I started reading the next section and realized I am still confused with all the characters and the back story about the disowned daughter, her brother, etc. So I will need to go back over this section and actually write down notes as some of you have done and catch up to the next section afterwards. I don't remember being this confused with any other book, even Bleak House.

I've just caught up with this first section. I also experienced a bit of character overload - especially at the dinner party at the Veneerings. It's sometimes unnerving reading Dickens when he dumps a huge number of characters on you in one go, and after a while you begin to wonder how many you really need to remember to stay on top of the plot. Sod's law says it's the one you think you can put safely on the back burner who turns out to be the lynchpin of the whole caboodle!!

Despite that, I'm very much enjoying the book. The final chapter had me laughing out load at a couple of points - one was definitely Boffin's asking for clarification on the difference between Roman and Russian, as Hedi mentions above.

I'm not at all sure why, but OMF has a similar feel to Dombey and Son to me. Maybe it's to do with the close and supportive brother-sister relationship or maybe the style of dialogue? Whatever it is, it's a good sign as I loved D&S :-)

Re - social climbing. I don't think it's been mentioned (I've just scanned the posts fairly quickly) but Boffin is also looking to better himself, this time through literature. It's not looking awfully hopeful though thus far!

Renee wrote: "I agree, Jackie. None of the Wilfer women seem particularly pleasant. Although it's still early. Lizzie is the only female who garners real sympathy, and that because of her relationship with her b..."

I also favor Lizzie. She's obviously strong (rowing her father about!) and strong-minded (keeping her brother educated in spite of dad's express wishes.) AND imaginative, cf her fireside visions told to Charley.

Bella? Frankly, I want to slap her upside the head. What is this, sitting around while everyone else does the work of fixing the meal, and decreeing that her chop must be cooked thus and so or she won't touch it? and then DEIGNING to eat it after all.....
How did she become so spoilt?
I prefer her sister, Lavinia, under the table picking up the checkers pieces big sis has flung down there in a fit of temper. "I won't be 'poored' by Pa or anyone," she says, or more or less says. You go, girl.....

I was hesitant starting the new year reading Dickens. Up until this point, I have only read A Christmas Carol. I think my hesitation was getting into what I call " the Dickens rhythm" and once I started OMF, I did not want to stop.

For those that have read multiple books by Dickens and read biographies about him, I would be curious to know if his characters were based off of real people.

As for the multiple characters already being introduced, at first I was a bit confused however, the longer I read, the less confusing they became. There are certainly characters I do not trust this early in the book and I will be interested to see if my assumptions later on are correct. I already dislike the Veneerings with their oozing newness and the party of their dear " oldest friends" ( who are their oldest friends? Do they actually have friends?) and Lizzie is already a favorite while Bella is on the fence.

Kate wrote: "I was hesitant starting the new year reading Dickens. Up until this point, I have only read A Christmas Carol. I think my hesitation was getting into what I call " the Dickens rhythm" and once I st..."

I commend you, Kate, in jumping in. This is definitely more complex than Dickens' earlier works, but it's also very rich.

I think Dickens took characters from what he saw around him all the time. We have heard that some female characters were based on his first love, his mother, and his sister-in-law, and Mr Micawber in David Copperfield was based on Dickens' father. For sure the places he described in London are real or based on real places.

Robin wrote: "I commend you, Kate, in jumping in. This is definitely more complex than Dickens' earlier works, but it's also very rich."

Usually with group reads, I stick with the schedule layed out and not read ahead. I have loved OMF so much that my last post was from memory. I promise no spoilers, I am on book the third and page 450. I wanted to slow down however, the characters have urged me onwards and I don't think I could stop now. I plan on reading another book this year by Dickens in several months.

I have had the same problem as you Kate, although I'm not as far ahead. Once I get into a book, I'm a bit of a guzzler and find it hard to slow down!

You might be interested in Mousehold Words (http://www.mouseholdwords.com/catalog) if you haven't come across it already; they email you weekly instalments in the original serial format - great for keeping you at a slower, steadier pace! It's free and spam-free (I've tried it). Only downside is, I get the impression their catalogue has got smaller since the last time I looked. There are two Dickenses there though - Hard Times and Dombey and Son.

Pip wrote: "I have had the same problem as you Kate, although I'm not as far ahead. Once I get into a book, I'm a bit of a guzzler and find it hard to slow down!

You might be interested in Mousehold Words (ht..."

That is very thoughtful of you Pip to think of me. I have tried reading an ebook and it just is not for me. I love to hold books, the smell of old books is one of the best smells in the world.

Kate wrote: "I was hesitant starting the new year reading Dickens. Up until this point, I have only read A Christmas Carol. I think my hesitation was getting into what I call " the Dickens rhythm" and once I st..."

Glad that you are joining us and that you are enjoying Dickens! I love all his novels, but this is definitely one of the best.