Ask Pierce Brown discussion

Hi Folks - here's the thread for the final section!

Section IV: RUIN (1/30-2/5)

Here's the intro to the section: The luck of the House Augustus forces seems to run out as Darrow launches an all-out assault on Mars: the largest Iron Rain the Society has ever seen.

As with the RED RISING re-read, the main purpose for breaking down the read is to keep the discussion focussed and if anyone has any specific questions for Pierce and/or his editor regarding a specific section.

Happy reading!
Pierce & Del Rey books

Pierce, I have a burning question for you. Can you please describe Darrow and Mustang's relationship between the end of RR and the beginning of GS? Picking up clues from GS, it seems like they were pretty close there for a while, yet perhaps not romantically. Any sort of insight, however brief, would be much appreciated, especially given the end of GS.

In a shameless attempt to charm an answer from you, I will also say that I love these books and these characters immensely. I daydream about them; I meticulously construct scenes in my head; I have re-read certain parts dozens of times. Can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to MS, despite the sleep loss that will go hand-in-hand with its release. Thank you!

I am taking a long time rereading the last part. I am obviously at total wuss, because I know what happens and...well, I am not sure I can go through it again. Okay, I know I will go through it again, but you certainly know how to shake things up. At least the new book is almost here and I don't have to wait in agony. Hyperbole? Maybe. You really draw me into the story and make me care about the characters. So I read on to find out what happens -- even if I may cover my eyes every now and then.

I found it very interesting during the reread to watch the slow decay of the friendship with Roque. My first read through was like whatever, they'll patch it up and everything will be cool. Second read through was different. I kept wanting to tell Darrow to take the time to talk to him and fix it NOW before it's to late! I keep wondering if the ending could have been different if he would just have fixed it.

Ron wrote: "I found it very interesting during the reread to watch the slow decay of the friendship with Roque. My first read through was like whatever, they'll patch it up and everything will be cool. Second ..."

Yes, I kept wanting to tell Darrow to wake up and fix things. He even knows he should be doing this, but he waits too long.

Claire wrote: "Pierce, I have a burning question for you. Can you please describe Darrow and Mustang's relationship between RR and GS? Picking up clues from GS, it seems like they were pretty close there for a wh..."

Oh Claire, I think D & M's relationship WAS romantic (intimate)! Pierce chose not to make it a focus point, imho. It is implied. His focus was more on Darrow always keeping Mustang at arms length despite her best efforts. In GS, after Darrow awakes from a 1 week coma, he sobs in Mustang's arms, he knows at this point he has to tell her the truth. She even asks him to "Let me in!" Then they proceed to have sex, again implied. Or at least that is where MY mind went. I think I've read enough romance and erotica to see it coming, LOL! Oh the gutter of my mind is deep!!

Denise wrote: "Claire wrote: "Pierce, I have a burning question for you. Can you please describe Darrow and Mustang's relationship between RR and GS? Picking up clues from GS, it seems like they were pretty close..."

Denise, agree 100% about the end of GS. I just found it ambiguous as to what their relationship was before Darrow left for the Academy. As you said, Darrow clearly wanted to keep her at arm's length, so how far did that go? Just looking for a definitive answer!

Claire wrote: "Denise wrote: "Claire wrote: "Pierce, I have a burning question for you. Can you please describe Darrow and Mustang's relationship between RR and GS? Picking up clues from GS, it seems like they we..."

Ah, the one year black hole Pierce left us with after the Institute and before the Academy. Personally, I think it was a slow burn kind of relationship.

Denise wrote: "Claire wrote: "Denise wrote: "Claire wrote: "Pierce, I have a burning question for you. Can you please describe Darrow and Mustang's relationship between RR and GS? Picking up clues from GS, it see..."

I think that's quite likely! In any case, I clarified my earlier post because I saw it wasn't quite clear enough. :)

I still hope Pierce answers it. I wouldn't mind the added juicy bits.

Ron wrote: "I found it very interesting during the reread to watch the slow decay of the friendship with Roque. My first read through was like whatever, they'll patch it up and everything will be cool. Second ..."

Hey Ron, I agree with you, I felt the same way reading it once, and than the second time around. Also, now that I am deep into my second reading I wonder if Roque was with the Jackal and betrayed Darrow way before we think he did.
Page 331, Darrow and his friends were sent to Mars by the Iron Rain. They landed three hundred km out of target. Darrow asks : "How did that happened ?" Roque was the one in charge....

I wondered exactly that. I felt like Roque was already gone at that point.

https://www.reddit.com/r/books/commen...

Pierce kind of answered my question about Roque finding out and turning during his AMA on r/books. Basically we're gonna find out eventually.

Claire wrote: "Pierce, I have a burning question for you. Can you please describe Darrow and Mustang's relationship between the end of RR and the beginning of GS? Picking up clues from GS, it seems like they were..."

I like leaving breadcrumbs in the text, so I won't share much. But basically they were dating in the citdael, with all the complications that brings. They went to dinners together, functions, and lived the life in court---which chaffed Darrow because for every moment he enjoyed, he found himself slipping further from his mission, from who he was. That was a betrayal of Eo. The guilt compounded and compounded. So when he got into the academy, off he went, leaving his new love behind.

Ellen wrote: "I am taking a long time rereading the last part. I am obviously at total wuss, because I know what happens and...well, I am not sure I can go through it again. Okay, I know I will go through it aga..."

That's sort of the ultimate compliment

Penny wrote: "I wondered exactly that. I felt like Roque was already gone at that point."

Darrow wonders too.

Ron wrote: "I found it very interesting during the reread to watch the slow decay of the friendship with Roque. My first read through was like whatever, they'll patch it up and everything will be cool. Second ..."

I think that's a lot like how it happens in life. You assume you'll have time, then you run out. Ever lose someone? Breakup? Death? You always think it's forever. But every relationship you have will ever have will end. You're borrowing time. Darrow, like us, just doesn't realize it till its too late.

I always thought the turning point for Roque was the closing gala in the Citadel in Luna. I think up to that last chat they had before the gala, Roque was truly his friend. He trusted Darrow, he loved him as a brother. And then Darrow drugged him and left him there, and later never gave him a satisfying explanation about why he did that.

I believe it was at that point that Roque started to change his opinion on Darrow and already betrayed him in his heart, what eventually concluded in his full betrayal, doing to Darrow the same thing Darrow had done to him: drugging him and leaving him paralyzed and vulnerable.

Julie wrote: "Ron wrote: "I found it very interesting during the reread to watch the slow decay of the friendship with Roque. My first read through was like whatever, they'll patch it up and everything will be c..."

Denise wrote: "Claire wrote: "Denise wrote: "Claire wrote: "Pierce, I have a burning question for you. Can you please describe Darrow and Mustang's relationship between RR and GS? Picking up clues from GS, it see..."

Darrow isn't a slow burner, but he chose to be when he found Mustang in the tower on Olympus. He wanted to have sex with her then and there. But he didn't because he knew how badly it would hurt him in the long run.

Denise wrote: "Claire wrote: "Denise wrote: "Claire wrote: "Pierce, I have a burning question for you. Can you please describe Darrow and Mustang's relationship between RR and GS? Picking up clues from GS, it see..."

Darrow isn't a slow burner, but he chose to be when he found Mustang in the tower on Olympus. He wanted to have sex with her then and there. But he didn't because he knew how badly it would hurt him in the long run.

Pierce wrote: "Claire wrote: "Pierce, I have a burning question for you. Can you please describe Darrow and Mustang's relationship between the end of RR and the beginning of GS? Picking up clues from GS, it seems..."

Thanks so much for the response! Looking forward to your launch at Book Soup next week! Also to my life being destroyed by MS.

I think Darrow is nothing if not a passionate man..... about most things. (I recognize this as I live with quiet yet passionate men). But I felt his self-tortured slow burn for Mustang. You conveyed that well Pierce. His deep feelings for her were evident with his ability to sob in her arms. God, I loved that scene.

Denise wrote: "I think Darrow is nothing if not a passionate man..... about most things. (I recognize this as I live with quiet yet passionate men). But I felt his self-tortured slow burn for Mustang. You conveye..."
Aww ! You're such a romantic Denise ! And so is Darrow :-)

Claire wrote: " Looking forward to your launch at Book Soup next week! Also to my life being destroyed by MS.."

Oh Claire, I'll be at Book Soup too! Maybe I'll see you there? I'm taking the day off work to go early and sit and READ READ READ!

Denise wrote: "Claire wrote: " Looking forward to your launch at Book Soup next week! Also to my life being destroyed by MS.."

Oh Claire, I'll be at Book Soup too! Maybe I'll see you there? I'm taking the day of..."

I'm doing the same! I will see you there! Also, if you're up for super detailed conversations about the books, I'm always game ;)

Game ON Claire! I'll look for you. Message me on GR when you get there and I'll do the same.

I'll be at Book Soup!! Denise, Claire, I want to have detailed conversations too!!

Bianca wrote: "I'll be at Book Soup!! Denise, Claire, I want to have detailed conversations too!!"

This is gonna be a party. Love it!!

I envy you, girls. Wish I could be there too. For the book and the detailed conversations.

Whoot Bianca! You can so join the party! Hugs Remy❤️

I love the scene with Darrow leading Mustang through his home. He's finally let go and opened up to her. It's what she's wanted from him for so long yet it is nothing like she expected it would be.

“Darrow," she says so quietly, "how do you know where you're going?"

My hands tremble.

"You told me to let you in." I look down at her.

"I did but..."

"How far do you want to go?"

I know she feels what's coming. I wonder how long she's felt it. The strangeness of me. The odd mannerisms. The distant soul.

She looks at her hands, stained red from the dust of the stone stairs. "All the way.”

The whole last part of Golden Sons "RUIN" is so intense , I can't read them before going to bed, it's too much emotions, it keeps me from falling asleep, even the second time around....

I was driving to my Nieces baby shower when I was listening to the last 2 hours. It was intense and I was practically in tears. I finished 10 minutes before arriving and I had to have silence.

"I’m not a conquering hero. I’m a necessary evil."

What a great line. That would look fantastic on a movie poster.

Annnnd DONE.

It's been an interesting ride for sure. I found that I got and learned a lot during the first read. And the second read just shows that your book is the kind of book you can come back to and gain something else new from it. Awesome job.

Now...about Victra...lol.

At least you didn't have to wait as long as some for the last book.

Well said, Joshua!

hey Pierce, what does L17L6363 comes from/means to you ?

Out of curiosity, what time does Morning Star release? I'd like to know whether I should stay up til midnight for my Kindle edition or if it'll come out later in the day.

I'm pretty sure the Kindle version should come out at midnight.

I just received an e-mail from Amazon informing me my HC has been shipped :D

Will our group continue for a Morning Star read. I hope so!!

Of the three Red Rising novels, which is your favorite part of the story? Which did you enjoy writing the most?

I just finished Golden Son in english even though it's not my mothertongue. That's the reason why it took me so long to read them but I absolutely love them!!! But there's one phrase that I don't understand
"Rise so high in mud you lie"
What does ist mean? I can't stop thinking about it

Freunudel wrote: "Rise so high in mud you lie"
What does ist mean? I can't stop thinking about it "

Karnus was telling Darrow that a "pauper can never be a prince," and that the highest Darrow could ever hope to become was a lowly member of society. Or another interpretation, my original interpretation, was no matter how high up the societal ladder Darrow climbs, he will only fall and end up in the mud, the dirtiest member of society.

Golden Son continues with Darrow’s dangerous infiltration into Gold society, having been firmly at the top of the ladder at the end of Red Rising, Golden Son in many ways encompasses his fall from grace.

“Rise so high, in mud you lie.”

This came from Words of Wonder.
https://wordsofwonders.com/2015/02/28...

Hope this helps. They said it better than I could

Thank you very much Denise it really helped :)

Excellent!

I would have to re-read that section cause I can't remember what the dialogue was surrounding that. But my take is a little different where the higher you rise the dirtier you will get. Or it could mean the higher you go the bigger the fall. Again I need the full context of the dialogue to know if that is what the author intended.

Freunudel wrote: " 'Rise so high in mud you lie'
What does ist mean? I can't stop thinking about it."

In Golden Son Chapter 40 entitled, "Mud," Darrow thinks, "'Rise so high, in mud you lie.' It echoes in my memory. This is the third time they've left me in the muck and mire to die." (This scene is when he lands on Mars during the Iron Rain, and his heavy suit is stuck in the mud after the EMP detonates.)

The Golds up to this point are not aware that Darrow came from below the surface of Mars, a Red, the lowest caste of society. However, they do think he is from an unimportant Gold family and therefore lowly. They are jealous of his rise. His enemies want to keep knocking him "down" as he attempts to "rise" in respectability. They not only literally left him helpless in the mud (Red Rising Chapter 33, Golden Son Chapter 3 and 40), but figuratively as well. Mud symbolizes lowliness, degradation, debasement, humiliation, dirtiness. In contrast, Golds, known as Skyborn to Obsidians, are supposed to be the highest caste, associated with elevation, purity, honor, glorification, cleanliness (well groomed).

But for Darrow, dirt also reminds him of his true self, since Reds were born inches from the dirt, as he tells Ragnar in Golden Son, Chapter 34. In Red Rising, Chapter 9, he says, "We are the bottom of the Society, the dirt." In Red Rising Chapter 28, a hint of Titus' identity is given when Darrow notices that Titus seems to like the dirt. In Chapter 15 of Golden Son, Darrow worries that his habit of rubbing dirt between his fingers before he fights might give away his identity.

Hope this helps!

Nicely done Sharon. Love how you reference each chapter! You are truly a fan!

For Andria, in GS, Ch3 last page 25. Also in Ch 23 when Darrow finds out Sevro knows he is a red, page 210.