Our Shared Shelf discussion

So... Denmark does not hold a great reputation at the moment.
And I can reveal that it probably won't get better when I share the status of feminism in Denmark. Any danes out there - correct me if you don't agree!

Denmark used to be progressive and there are still many great, strong feminist voices. However - feminism and feminist seem to have become dirty words over the last few years. You can basically blame feminism/feminists for everything and people will join your choir. Rape, violence, recession, unemployment, the decrease of men with masterdegrees, male health problems, female health problems - if you can think it, you can blame the feminists!

At the moment I don't feel comfortable calling myself a feminist in front of certain (intelligent, ressourcefull, leftwinged) familymembers, because the word is loaded with connotations.
I AM a feminist, my husband is a feminist, we raise our kids with feminist values - but I hardly ever take part in discussions on feminism. I do not have the energy to defend my point of view in the manner that is often necessary. The debates on feminsm tends to become very aggressive.

Any danes (or others) who wants to give their 50 cents?

Oh, and reports have stated that 80% of danish women have experienced sexual harassment and 52% af danish women have experienced fysical or sexual violence after the age of 15. Only one out of 60 rapecharges leads to conviction, and it is estimated that about 3600 women are reaped each year, but only about 400 are reported.

Over the last few years there have been a lot of focus on false rape accusations and somehow this has lead many people to the conclusion that false rape accusations is a massive problems (in reality there are about 7% false rape accusations. That is more or less the same percentage as false accusations on any other type of crime in Denmark).

Well, unfortunately I have to agree with you, Henriette. I'm from Denmark too and have more or less the same feeling as you. Personally I think that one of the biggest problems are that Danes believe that we do have gender equality in Denmark and therefore we do not have to fight for it any more... Often my classmates are like: "Yeah... it's fine you are a feminist, but could you please chill a bit it's not like we need feminism any more".
And yes, the word "feminist" is not a popular word to use in DK. It's like stepping on a cats tail. Whenever one use it a aggressive debate begins - not about the topic you were talking about, but about the word feminist and how all feminist are man-haters and so on (as you yourself pointed out).
At least that is mine observations from a school/ teenage point of view.

From a 30 year old pov the picture is exactly the same!

I'm Danish too, and I also agree. But at the same time, more attention has been brought to the subject in later years. I'm thinking of the difference in salaries. However, it seems that the reason for that is that "women are just bad at negotiating salaries", and that might be the case, but personally I don't think that is the entire reason.
My view on femininity changed a lot with Emma's UN speech about feminism also being about boys crying and wanting to be nurses et cetera. That is the argument I bring up whenever someone says that we have equality between the genders here in Denmark and so we don't need feminism.

Hello. I'm from Denmark too and most recently I made a project in school about women's rights in Denmark. It really surprised me how much there needs to be changed. I always felt like we didn't quite had equality in Denmark but now I'm sure.

At Ørestad Gymnasium we had an assembly a while back about women's rights, but during the entire event, the word 'feminism' was mentioned about once (even though it was what the entire assembly was about). When I then got out of the gym I heard some guys saying that it was great and all, but that they were too many feminists (as though this was a bad thing, ugh). This is just one example, but it shows how 'feminism' is definitely a dirty word here in DK.
Being against the F-word is just proving the patriarchal system and just today I saw an article on DR that used the word as a dirty term and really generalized feminists.
Luckily we have Emma Holten. :)

I love to see young(er - I'm 30, that's still kind of young-ish) feminists showing up here. You are feminists AND you read! You make the world a little better (I know so many who never reads - and I hold a master in arts and live in a pretty wealthy area, what you would call 'kreativ klasse' in dk).

And yes, Emma Holten is an incredibly strong and competent young feminist. She makes me hopeful.

I am Polish-American, but I have lived in Denmark for about a year and a half now, and I very much agree with Clara's point that many people here simply believe that we don't "need" feminism anymore. My opinion is that, like many people around the world, too many Danes simply do not what feminism IS.

Luckily, I attend an international school, where many different points of view come together, and feminist views are noticeably different between students and teachers from various parts of the world (predominantly Europe). Our international teachers seem (overall) much more feminist than the Danish teachers, but also value general equality more than the Danes.

When I first met my closest Danish friend, as well as my best friend from Moldova, "feminist" was a bit of a "dirty" word to them. "I completely believe in equality for men and women, but I wouldn't say I'm a FEMINIST," or "I haven't shaved in a long time, I look like a feminist." It is a pity that young women are still thinking like this. Their mindsets, as well as many others', seem to have changed since I have moved here -- whether that is my doing or simply the society's bigger focus on feminism, I am not sure, but I do hope that young women in Denmark learn about and value feminism more than the older generations.

Over the past few months, I actually have been wanting to start some type of female empowerment and feminist program for young girls, but it is quite difficult for me to do in Denmark, as I do not speak Danish.

Hej hej! I'm an American who lived in Denmark for about two years. Maybe I was surrounded by progressive Danes, but I did not experience much anti-feminism. In fact, it was quite the opposite! I found a community that really challenged thoughts and ideas. While Americans are very good at "beating around the bush" and not saying what they mean, I appreciated the Danish frankness and ability to talk about difficult social issues.

One of the first times my host mom and I disagreed on a subject was about female Muslims in Denmark. She said that because Denmark is such an equal society between men and women, women must work - not only because they deserve to, but also it is difficult to survive on a one income household in your economy. I agreed with that sentiment.

Our difference came about whether a Muslim immigrant "should" wear a burka. I said she should be able to if it is her wish (especially because the Danes have some crazy styles sometimes and the freedom to do so ;) She said it unfortunately causes discrimination and someone not wearing a burka would get employment over those wearing one. To me, it seems that no one should be discriminated against for wearing a religious symbol, but that is another human rights discussion. She said it is unfortunately the "reality". One factor we did agree on was that Muslim men in Denmark should not prevent their wives from working if they wish to. Her argument was that they need to assimilate in this culture if they are going to immigrate to Denmark, while mine was the woman's right to agency and the freedom to participate in the societal economy if that is her wish.

That being said, I also lived with two Danish roommates (a couple) in Copenhagen who did one of the sit-ins at the church in Norrebro (I believe) that was fighting against deportation of asylum seekers. So I was surrounded by a lot of Danes who were fighters of human rights and helping out fellow (wo)men. I understand how much Danes put into the social system and how challenging it is when you feel immigrants are leeching off the system. It is definitely complicated and I don't begin to judge. But I do believe in helping those who need it most and finding a way other than deportation back to the violence they fought so hard to escape. Although there are feminism issues in the immigration issues, I digress.

I did have one experience in a bar that I guess could be seen as gendered. An American friend of mine who looks like a Barbie had been drinking too much. I was trying to protect her from a Danish guy who wanted to take advantage of her. I was trying to get her to leave with me and get rid of the guy. He looked over at me and said, "Leave us alone. You're ugly." While a bit younger, and maybe a little less fashionable at the time, my self-esteem was fine and I wondered, "What does that matter." And yes maybe compared to her I was not "beautiful" by media standards. But inside I most definitely consider myself beautiful. I thought that was a cruel blow and the feminist in me was more angered by the focus on external beauty rather than being a good person trying to prevent her friend from being taken advantage of by a sleazy guy. Clearly this is an n of 1, but one of the few gender-based-violence experiences I had in Denmark.

Anyway, just some initial thoughts! I love Denmark very much and would move back in a heartbeat. I look forward to more perspectives throughout this book club!

Ashley

Ashley - interesting to get some thoughts from a none-native with alot of indsight. Thanks!
The debate has exploded over the last year or so. The circles you move in definately influences what you experience (as it always does), but the media has really fuelled this fire.

I'm really tired (I just returned home from a funeral), so please forgive any weird spelling etc. I'll return with more thoughts when I've had some sleep.

Hello. We have started a topic about a meet up in Denmark. Here is the link. Please go in and comment if you are interested.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Best regards
Clara Winding

Calling yourself a feminist in Denmark is often looked upon as being too aggressive I feel, which is why so many women and men is reluctant to use the word in general when talking about equality. I believe it comes from a lack of understanding of the term, its origin and meaning. It is not taught in school, it is not talked about in school, it is not discussed in school and so the true meaning gets lost in a mist of prejudices.

I have certainly experienced a fair share of sexism throughout my life and especially when I started my A-levels. I was the only girl in an all-boy class and so I was sometimes forced to discuss certain aspects that are all linked one way or another to feminism and equality. Often I would find myself in total disbelieve: I simply couldn’t understand that I was being considered “too much” when all I was asking for was to be taking as serious as my fellow classmates. I studied math and physics, two fields that are dominated by men, and so I was often told to “take notes” or to “write down what they were dictating” because the common understanding was that I was not as capable as them, simply because of my gender, or as they would say: “You’re a girl so you will be better at taking notes”. On top of that I had to face other prejudices regarding my appearance and even my sexuality. This all comes from a place of inequality, where some subjects are considered more “masculine” or “feminine” than others and so it is completely obviously to me that true equality is yet to be totally implanted in our society.
I believe it comes from a lack of education and awareness and I have to say that I don’t think our society really acknowledge this issue because the general idea is that we are equal because our human rights are the same (an example: both men and women can vote). I very rarely see people discussing feministic issues on social media. I very rarely see the media bringing attention to feminism. Here and there you can get a glimpse of something that is easily related to feminism and yet the word is never used, the relation never made.

And yes, Emma Holten is amazing. She inspires me tremendously. Hearing her thoughts have changed my life for the better. And then there’s Emma Watson’s UN speech… I think it should be mandatory for everyone to see it.

Totally agree that "feminism" is a bad word in Denmark. I generally think Danes need to reevaluate their standards. "Bilingual" is also a word subjected to much negativity. I, a bilingual person, am not thought of as bilingual here because I'm white. Here, bilingual means Muslim and Muslims in this society are considered bad. You see this everywhere, the Danish tendency to give new, negative meaning to a perfectly ordinary, neutral word. For example, my mother was at a job interview and happened to mention that her children are bilingual. The interviewer responded with "Well, as long as they're not Arabic, that's fine." My mum immediately expressed her disagreement. She did not get the job. A teacher has even asked my class to stop using the word, because it was too "negative". There are too many examples of bilinguals being thought of as exclusively non-white, which is something I would love to see changed.

I agree with all of you, it's a shame that feminism has become some sort of mock word in Denmark. People participating in the public debate are mocking outspoken feminists, instead of answering to their questions and critique. As many of you write, it's as if feminism is a remnant from a distant past, and now its not needed any longer.

However, I think Denmark is a good place to be a woman in many ways. Education is free, most women have a job and high quality day care for children exist, enabling women to both pursue their career and have children.

Luckily I haven't been discriminated against. I've heard lot's and lot's of sexist comments, and sadly I think most women have. For instance when I was younger I used to smoke, and more than one man has told me that it's not 'nice', when a woman smokes cigarettes in public. They didn't tell me it was unhealthy or stupid, but just 'not nice' as in not very feminine. When I was pregnant people yelled after me on the street, calling me fat. At my work as a hospital doctor, more than one male doctor have told me that he thinks it's a shame, that so many women choose to study medicine, compared to the number of men. But this is just the last roar from an almost extinct dinosaur, I think.

It annoys me, that it's okay to comment upon a woman's looks in public, or to question her femininity.

I think the fourth generation feminists, for instance the group called Girl Squad, are interesting. I don't agree with everything they say, but I respect their effort in claiming their sexuality. They have many interesting points, for instance why is it devastating for a woman, when naked photos of her are shared on the internet, when males can send dick pics as they wish, and hardly no one pays attention? Its all about shame. For some reason a man is still respected intellectually, even though naked pictures of him flourish on the internet, but for a woman it can be the end of her career. Why this difference?

Any fellow Danes still on this site?

I’m here once in a while. Haven’t been able to keep up this year, but I’m still around.

Does anyone remember the debate last summer about male chauvinist and demeaning rituals in high schools, where senior high school boys invite the most popular junior high school girls to private parties and subject them to various humiliating and sexistic admission rituals (puttemiddage)?

The young woman, Anja Leighton, who exposed this rotten tradition to the medias is the co-author of a book about feminism ("Aldrig kun til Pynt - et søstermanifest").

https://www.politikensforlag.dk/aldri....

I read a newspaper article today about the book and her life since she exposed those rituals. She has experienced a great amount of harrasment since then from boys from her old high school, who are angry that she ruined their 'fun'. What shocked me the most is that the parents of those boys have done nothing. They have not offered any support to her or her family after she went public with the whole affair.

I think Anja Leighton is so very brave and cool! Young women today face different challenges than I did when I was young in the 90'ies. I think much was easier back then, because there were no social medias and less focus on appearance. I don't envy the young people today. But I have noticed that young women are no longer ashamed to define themselves as feminists, which gives me hope for the future.

Well, I’m not surprised that the parents haven’t reacted. The boys have their attitude towards women (and people in general) from somewhere.

Sadly yes 😞

I have to say how sad it is to read this, while all the same it is happening in the US with the devaluing of all people in general in the Trump administration. I had hoped by now that the 1970’s and 1980’s would have had more momentum. Or maybe it’s the 2000’s. No matter. Equality has had a major major setback. Don’t give up my women!!!

Thank you for your comments. I was a young woman in the 70's who fought for the ERA. Sadly I have seen women's rights which should never have been questioned or determined by men, backsliding to the attitude by men of women in that era. We defended our rights then and made progress which has been now demeaned and even devalued. Young women today should be able to build on the messages and issues that my generation of women addressed at that time and improve on them, not have to defend and fight for equality again.

@Colleen and MaryJane. Thanks for your comments. Sadly it seems as if feminism has suffered a major set back worldwide these days. And the lesson learned from this might very well be that my generation (people born in the 70'ies and 80'ies) have been too passive, instead of defending rights already gained. The positive thing is that young women of today stand up for themselves when they experince inequality, double standards, slut shaming, rape culture etc. I will support this new wave of activism in whatever way I can. I have a daughter and I don't want her to grow up in a world that devaluates women. We will not give up!

Yo Danes! Anyone still active on OSS? :-)

JA!

Fantastisk :b Kunne du/I have lyst til at skrive beskeder herover Goodreads - diskutere nogle af bøgerne/øvrige bøger?

Jeg er her on/off.

I from Sweden and feminism here has also become dirty words and also been described like racism. And that is bad.

Like racism? How?

How some men (not all men) feel they were offended and don't get all right like others.

I've been living in Denmark for a few years, and honestly, the subject of feminism here is something that I find extremely baffling.

On one hand, Denmark is a strongly feminist country, alongside other Scandinavian countries. It's one of the best places to be a woman, which you can understand clearly especially if you have experience of living in a sexist country like me. Of course it's not perfect and has its shares of problems, but still it's better than most.

On the other hand, there's this weird backlash against the word "feminism" in media. Just like some of the previous people here mentioned, it's as if "feminist" was a dirty word.

I still find this illogical and contradictory.