The Green Jell-O Book Club: A Goodreads Group about Fiction Written by LDS Authors discussion

Brand-new group! I'm still working on set-up, but I hope to have things organized over the next few days.

I'll start off the discussion by asking people what they want this group to be. Please let us know!

I began this group for a few reasons. I read a lot of nonfiction, and I've found great groups to discuss all the WWI and WWII era history books I read. I wanted something similar for the LDS fiction I read.

I'm hoping this group will be a place where readers with similar tastes can connect and share recommendations.

I'm also hoping this will be a great resource for questions like "how clean is this book?"

And I think the reading challenges are going to be a lot of fun. We'll make them easy to participate in, so I hope you'll join us!

A huge thank you to my co-moderator, the amazing Charissa Stastny. Starting a new group is a lot less scary if you have a friend helping you!

Glad to be a part of this A.L. Sowards. I haven't really participated in any groups yet, but this one excites me. It's everything I love.

I'm always looking for great authors and to connect with authors that I already know and love! I'd love to be kept up to date on new releases and for content on the books. Thanks for this group!

You're a welcome addition, Katie. As we get this group rolling, we hope to add lots of books to our shelves to make it easy to discover new books by LDS authors.

We're not even 4 days old yet, and we've already added over 30 members. Please feel free to invite your friends to join us! Goodreads has a handy "invite people" link that makes it easy to spread the word.

Charissa and I are going to start adding books to our group bookshelf. It's a big task, so I hope you'll be patient with us! We would also welcome any help, so please feel free to add to the pile.

I've added a few hundred so far. I've found that the easiest way is to search by author, then add all their books as once. Watch out for multiple authors with the same name, and please only add fiction. Thanks!

Moving this here so others with the same question can see it more easily:

Cindy wrote: "Hi! I'm a new convert who loves to read. Can you recommend some LDS authors? THANKS!"

A.L. wrote: "Hello, Cindy! Glad to have you here! What genres are your favorites?

A great place to start is the Whitney Awards Website. The Whitneys are an awards program for novels by LDS authors, so the books listed there include ones given high ratings by a panel of judges and an academy of readers and writers.
Here's a link: http://whitneyawards.com/

All of the books on the group bookshelf are written by LDS authors (there might be a few mistakes, and I doubt I've added even half of the books written by Mormons, but it's another place to get ideas).
https://www.goodreads.com/group/books...

You can also browse through the genre discussion topics, where group members have mentioned some of their favorites."

In recommending the Whitney nominees, you should note that the authors are all LDS, but their books are not always written within LDS standards or for the LDS market. The Whitney awards are not given for the best LDS oriented books, do not require any reference to the Church, and do not have a standards requirement, though most adhere to no explicit sex or crude language. Many are not even the best sellers in the LDS market niche. The judges have no literary or content guidelines other than personal preference (I've been a Whitney judge many times). Most really are excellent books, but not all are "LDS fiction."

Very true, Jennie. Thanks for that clarification! I read a Whitney finalist recently that I wouldn't have finished in normal circumstances (it was a little too steamy for my taste). I only completed it so I could vote in that category.

Last spring I wrote a blog post about the Whitneys if anyone would like a more in-depth look at the process. (Or at least my take on the process.) https://alsowards.com/2015/06/11/my-t...)

When starting this group, I debated making it about LDS fiction, or clean fiction, or clean fiction by LDS writers. But "clean" means different things to different people, so I ended up just making it about fiction by LDS writers, because that's easy to define.

As members of the group post about books they've read, I would love for them to mention items that some readers might find offensive, degrading, crass, etc. And if someone has a question about an author's placement on the clean spectrum, this is a great place to ask!

Today our group is one month old. And we're up to 104 members. Yay!

A.L. wrote: "Today our group is one month old. And we're up to 104 members. Yay!"

Wow! It only is a month old? Didn't realize when I joined with how many of my Goodreads friends on here. Yay indeed!

Kim wrote: Wow! It only is a month old? Didn't realize when I joined with how many of my Goodreads friends on here. Yay indeed!"

I think we're off to a good start!

Thanks for setting up this group A.L.!

Lee wrote: "Thanks for setting up this group A.L.!"

You're welcome! Thank you to everyone who has joined so far! It's been so fun to see the numbers grow!

I hesitated to make this post because it's a little self-serving, but it's the type of thing that fits with this group, and if I hadn't been involved I would have posted a few days ago. So here are the results of the 2015 Whitney Awards:

Best Novel for Youth and Best Middle Grade Novel:
A Night Divided by Jennifer A. Nielsen

Best General Young Adult Novel:
Calvin by Martine Leavitt

Best Speculative Young Adult Novel:
Firefight by Brandon Sanderson

Best Novel (non-youth categories) and Best Romance:
Lord Fenton's Folly by Josi S. Kilpack

Best General Fiction Novel:
The Other Side of Quiet by Tara C. Allred

Best Historical Novel:
The Rules in Rome by A.L. Sowards

Best Mystery/Suspence:
Failsafe by Traci Hunter Abramson

Best Speculative Novel:
The Devil's Only Friend by Dan Wells

Best Novel by a New Author:
Ink and Ashes by Valynne E. Maetani

Link to the winners: http://whitneyawards.com/2015-winners/
Link to all 40 finalists: http://whitneyawards.com/2015-finalists/

So the last three years at the Whitney Awards, the top romance novel has also taken the Best Novel award.

2013:
Blackmoore by Julianne Donaldson
2014:
Hope Springs by Sarah M. Eden
2015:
Lord Fenton's Folly by Josi S. Kilpack

I think that shows how competitive the romance category is. (And it might say a little something about which type of readers are making it through all 25 books in the adult categories to be able to vote for best novel.)

All three authors have a 2016 release, so it will be interesting to see the finalists when they're announced next year.

**edit**
Opps! Julianne Donaldson's next release isn't until 2017, not 2016 (they posted the cover on Goodreads about 18 months before its release--wow). And Josi Kilpack is on the Whitney Committee for the 2016 awards, so her 2016 releases won't be eligible.

A.L. wrote: "I hesitated to make this post because it's a little self-serving, but it's the type of thing that fits with this group, and if I hadn't been involved I would have posted a few days ago. So here are..."

No, this definetly fits the group as the list of finalists and winners is giving us members knowledge of more LDS authors and very good ones it seems.

Wow! There is only two other authors besides yourself in the larger finalist list that I even knew before were LDS. Some authors I have even read before or titles are on my Goodreads Shelves to be read and I never knew. Some of these other authors' books are being added to my TBR list or are being bumped up.

Thanks and congratulations A.L.!

Thanks, Kim!

My to-read list always grows during "Whitney season."

I read 3 categories for the 2015 Whitneys (romance, mystery/suspense and historical) and there were a couple of books I found miscategorized.
This time, only one of my favorites in the category won, and some of the others were too close to make a guess.

Lucinda wrote: "I read 3 categories for the 2015 Whitneys (romance, mystery/suspense and historical) and there were a couple of books I found miscategorized.
This time, only one of my favorites in the category wo..."

They usually let the authors choose categories, and sometimes it's a hard call. Is a book a historical romance or a historical with a strong romantic element?

I've been in the academy since 2012 and many times I've found books written with equal craft and enjoyed several finalists equally. So definitely check out all the finalists, not just the winners. (And just to clarify, I never vote on a category if I wrote one of the finalists. That would seem unethical, and I have a hard time looking at my own books objectively.)

There's a blog that lists LDS authors too. Here's the link: http://www.newldsfiction.com/

Erica wrote: "There's a blog that lists LDS authors too. Here's the link: http://www.newldsfiction.com/"

Oh Erica! That is a great resource for LDS authors, titles, and new releases. Thanks! I saw your 2016 new release and think I am going to read it for the group's summer new to you LDS author challenge.

Lucinda wrote: "I read 3 categories for the 2015 Whitneys (romance, mystery/suspense and historical) and there were a couple of books I found miscategorized.
This time, only one of my favorites in the category wo..."

So follow-up question for Lucinda or anyone who read some of the Whitney finalists: Which books would you have categorized differently?

And some questions for everyone:

What, in your opinion, is the line between a romance novel and a novel of a different genre that just happens to have a love story?

When is a book historical fiction, and when is it another genre that just happens to be set in the past?

Erica wrote: "There's a blog that lists LDS authors too. Here's the link: http://www.newldsfiction.com/"

She also has a weekly email you can sign up for that shows all the books she added that week. (It's where I get 90% of the new releases that I post here.)

Kim wrote: "Erica wrote: "There's a blog that lists LDS authors too. Here's the link: http://www.newldsfiction.com/"

Oh Erica! That is a great resource for LDS authors, titles, and new releases. Thanks! I saw..."

:) Good to hear that.

I'm really excited about this group.

A.L. wrote: "And some questions for everyone:

What, in your opinion, is the line between a romance novel and a novel of a different genre that just happens to have a love story?

When is a book historical fi..."


Maybe the author's intent? Although, I don't know. Long ago I read Dragon Doom by Dennis L. McKiernan. In his foreward he mentions how it's about red birds and blue birds -- in essence a love story. But it has everything a good fantasy needs.

So, if the story is built around *ahem* the physical, I'd say it's a straight romance.

The same as if there is no romance, it would be straight historical for example.

I like the ones that blend it together best.

A romance is a story with a main plot that focus on a couple's journey to love (sometimes you may have a secondary plot, but it's not always necessary). It may have or have not any *ahem* physical. I write clean romance where they only kiss, that's as physical as they get.

Within the romance umbrella, there's contemporary, historical (and inside historical you can have medieval, regency, victorian, WWII, etc), Christian (LDS, Amish, etc) , sweet, YA, mystery/suspense, paranormal, etc.

Then are other genres (like fantasy, sci-fi, women's fiction, mystery) whose main plot is about something else, and sometimes have a secondary plot (or B story) with a romantic element. So these are definitely not romances.

As for the Whitneys, in the categories that I read, I think Lost King should have been in the historical (even though the mystery/suspense was a main element in the story) and Eleanor and the Iron King most definitely should have been in the historical as well (the romance was a B story in this book, not the main focus of it). Just my opinion, obviously.

I didn't read any other categories so I can't say about other books.

Lucinda wrote: "A romance is a story with a main plot that focus on a couple's journey to love (sometimes you may have a secondary plot, but it's not always necessary). It may have or have not any *ahem* physical...."

I was thinking of what my romance writing text book said. Romance is about the journey, but its written around the physical attraction of falling in love. (AKA the physical/sexual attraction and the tension that creates. And that can be done as a sweet romance, but mainstream is not clean.) So I was referring to those being obviously romance genre.

I did not mean to offend.

In a writers group I once heard it said that the main different between erotica and romance is, if you take the s** out of the erotica you'd still have a sound story. With romance, you lose a chunk of the story, as much of the tension is gone. I'm not sure I'd agree on that, as I love the Proper Romance lines, and Edenbrooke is a wonderful example of how to build tension with out the physical aspect.

I think in a writing class I went to once (how's that for vague?) someone said it's a romance if the driving question in the story is "will they get together and be happy?" If the driving force is something else, like "who is the mysterious stalker?" or "are they going to get out of this alive?" then it's not a romance.

I guess there are multiple definitions. And when multiple plot-driving questions are blended together it can be tough to call.

I really like that one. I think that would make mine a romance, as readers do want to know if they'll get a happy together ending. Not romance readers may get annoyed with the fantasy elements--Dragons, curses, magic.

Erica wrote: "did not mean"

Not offended, sorry if I sounded snarky.

You're right, it's about the sexual tension, and that's physical, but to me there's lots and lots more going on than just that. And that's why I like to write stories that center about the whole relationship which has much more than just the physical. I agree with you that those Proper Romances are a good example of sexual tension without the physical.

And I'd say almost all erotica stories have nothing left if you take the sex out of them.

I'd go with you on the erotica. I thought it was backwards.

And I'm glad I didn't offend. I did leave out the important aspect of a romance bring about falling in love. I need to slow down when I post.

On the Whitney awards, (besides what an honor even being a finalist would be), I'd not want to go up against Sarah M. Eden or Julianne Donaldson in romance.

I find it super neat that some of you have been contenders.

I'm not sure I'm entirely a 'typical' male reader, but for me true romance has nothing to do with the physical (although I don't read 'Romance' novels, so my comments need to be taken in that light). I mostly read fantasy, and I like a love interest, but what I enjoy is the emotional connection of the characters. Once it gets physical, I'm put off.

In my own series, Love is a theme throughout the (incomplete) series. Love between parent and child; love between man and woman. But the only scene really involving sexual attraction is an attempted seduction - one attempted with mal-intent. I wanted to give rise to the question, What is love?

In the second book there is a scene with subtle allusions to the Garden of Eden, and indeed, my MCs name - Michael - is a deliberate reference to Adam. Most people won't pick it up, of course, and that's fine because I'm marketing to the general fantasy market rather than LDS or even Christian.

That said, my story is quite definitely epic fantasy. The magic system is at centre play, as are the other fantastical elements. The romance elements are one part of the story only.

Jeffrey wrote: "I'm not sure I'm entirely a 'typical' male reader, but for me true romance has nothing to do with the physical (although I don't read 'Romance' novels, so my comments need to be taken in that light..."

I think this thread is dangerous. I hoped over to your works, then jumped to Amazon and spent the last of my book fund. I'm a slow reader though.

Erica wrote: "I think this thread is dangerous..."

Aw, thank you Erica :) Hope you enjoy it. Book 2 is with the editor now, so should be out by early July. There is more romance in that one.

Here are a few articles from LDS Living Magazine that might interest a few of you:

Mormon authors who are New York Times bestsellers: http://www.ldsliving.com/The-Ultimate...

Suggested summer reading list of books you can buy at Deseret Book: http://www.ldsliving.com/Ultimate-Sum...

Another article, also from LDS Living, about LDS scifi and fantasy authors: http://www.ldsliving.com/Why-Mormon-A...

I agree that romance stories need to build more on the emotional connection rather than the physical. An author friend and I were having a discussion on this subject and we both agreed that a kiss doesn't mean anything to a reader unless the author has shown the couple's feelings toward each other growing in the midst of their struggles.

By the way, I absolutely loved Josi Kilpack's Lord Fenton's Folly. Even though Lord Fenton was a prankster, I was really impressed in the moment that he realized he'd hurt his fiancee's feelings. I think it's totally okay to write a main character as a jerk as long as his/her character arc changes. (Also, in the case of Lord Fenton, he had several good reasons for being a jerk, which shows a key component of great writing.)

question for everyone: I don't want to use *** for a scene divider. What fonts can you actually use in your book?

Erica wrote: "question for everyone: I don't want to use *** for a scene divider. What fonts can you actually use in your book?"

I think it's fun when authors use something related to their book, like little flowers or seashells. But, scene dividers are like punctuation. If they're doing their job correctly, they're practically invisible. So you probably don't want anything too elaborate or it might be distracting. What types you can use probably depends on your formatting software or your publisher.

If you google "dingbats" you should get some ideas.

if you don't want to get a dingbat another thing you can do is, if you have the fonts wingdings, it has some cool design. I like wingdings II and the a & b. Though I have trouble getting them in my kindle books even though I embed my fonts, I don't know why. I have no problem with createspace. Hope this helps. Alysia S. Knight

You can't have special fonts or dingbats on a Kindle book, not unless you insert them as jpegs.

Cutesy dividers are an annoying distraction.

My review of Joyce DiPastena's new Medieval novel, Courting Cassandry, is posted this morning on Meridian. http://ldsmag.com/lds-fiction-medieva...

Thanks for posting, Jennie! I think I might read one of Joyce DiPastena's books for the summer reading challenge.