Women's Classic Literature Enthusiasts discussion

Evelina, or the History of a Young Lady's Entrance into the World, published anonymously in January of 1778, is the first novel written by Frances Burney. It is often considered her best work, and it is certainly her most popular and widely-read. Perhaps its most defining characteristic is that it is an epistolary novel, meaning the story is told exclusively through letters written by several different characters. Most critics consider it to be a "sentimental" novel, and it certainly possesses some components of early Romanticism. Burney's work – Evelina in particular – proved a great influence on later authors like Jane Austen and Maria Edgeworth. She is equally generous to her novel's own influences - in its preface, she proclaims herself indebted to Samuel Richardson, Dr. Johnson, Henry Fielding, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, and Tobias Smollett. (Credit to gradesaver.com)

Please place your comments in this thread. Be sure to use spoiler tags if you make comments in the first two weeks that might ruin the book for others.

is there a reading schedule or do we just comment as we read including spoiler tags?

I haven't had much success with a reading schedule or dividing the book into separate parts for discussion. If there is enough interest, I will do so, Other groups have one thread and make comments as they read, using spoiler tags. I was going to see if that would be feasible for this group.

Emily, I'm fine without the book divided into a schedule.

I read with other groups that don't divide.
But just use spoiler tags.

I'm planning to read this along with you. It has been on by TBR for a while, so its great to have the opportunity to finally take it on.

I've also been looking forward to this. I looked this up in my library catalogue and it came up as banned... No idea why though.

Lisa, I got this book from project Gutenberg.

I hope this helps.

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "Lisa, I got this book from project Gutenberg.

I hope this helps."

Thanks Andrea, I have a PG copy but wanted a hard copy, going away in a week and might not have regular electronic access.

Banned?! As in someone in a governmental position has decided regular ordinary folk are not currently allowed to read it?! And then they tell you so?!

I can't imagine it is banned! Perhaps there is another book titled Evelina?

I just completed ch 16.

My impressions

-JA owes a lot to FB
-FBs humor is more overt, not as subtle as JA, but quite funny.

*Remember these words: chapter 13, Ranleagh, Sir Clement Willoughby--(view spoiler)[hilarity ensues! (hide spoiler)]

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "I just completed ch 16.

My impressions

-JA owes a lot to FB
-FBs humor is not overt, not as subtle as JA, but quite funny.

*Remember these words: chapter 13, Ranleagh, Sir Clement Willoughby--[s..."

Edit

FB and JA and their use of humor.

I'm enjoying it. It's easy to see how Burney inspired JA and what JA owes to FB.

FBs use of humor is more overt/direct/heavier than JAs subtlety and light touch.

I can't see social satire being used by FB at the point of my reading, as JA used it to make social commentary. FB has a healthy sense of the ridiculous for the sake of humor as an end perhaps.

☯Emily wrote: "I can't imagine it is banned! Perhaps there is another book titled Evelina?"

Speaking of banned books, I read "Black Beauty" in the last two months by Anna Sewel.

I recently and learned the this lovely, lovely book had been banned in SA.

Would any of who are NOT from that country like to guess why this book was banned?

With problems epidemic of gunning down Black men and boys in where I live. When I learned why Black Beauty was banned, I had to take a moment and keep myself from crying at work.

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "☯Emily wrote: "I can't imagine it is banned! Perhaps there is another book titled Evelina?"

Speaking of banned books, I read "Black Beauty" in the last two months by Anna Sewel.

I recently and l..."

Because the animal in the story is black...? I have no clue.

The book "Black Beauty" was banned bec of the combination of the words "Black" and "Beauty."

Now that things have changed, I hope people everywhere can enjoy this book.

It's definitely this book, listed on our library site as banned. No idea why. Many books were banned if the morality was questionable... I can't say who banned the book.

I knew that about Black Beauty.

So books were banned during Apartheid. But many of those books, although no longer banned, are not accessible because they've never been bought. Cannot access Fumiko Enchi, Ruby Bridges, Maya Angelou, bell hooks or Salman Rushdie...

Lisa, a lack of access to book that were formerly banned, though unfortunate, makes sense.

Public libraries everywhere--no matter the country, never have enough money to do all that they wish or felt is needed to be done for their service populations. Therefore, they (library administrators) probably feel it more worthwhile to spend funds on new/current books rather than spending monies to buy book that are old and used to be banned but are no longer.

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "The book "Black Beauty" was banned bec of the combination of the words "Black" and "Beauty."

Now that things have changed, I hope people everywhere can enjoy this book."

Seriously?! O.O

Comments about the book--no spoilers:

The first few letters that described personal history were a little confusing to follow, but I eventually figured it out.

I've noticed that FBs sentences are not as long as JAs can be ant therefore, are easier to follow!

I am up to Letter 14 and I have to say I am loving it so far. I can empathize with Evelina's plight when she is tossed into upper class society without any training or knowledge.

There is also a feel of a Georgette Heyer plot. I wonder if Ms. Heyer was influenced by Fanny Burney.

Interesting quote in Letter 6: "I should, at first sight of so perfect a face, have been in pain for her understanding; since it has been long and justly marked that folly has ever sought alliance with beauty."

Could that observation be accurately made today?

☯Emily wrote: "Interesting quote in Letter 6: "I should, at first sight of so perfect a face, have been in pain for her understanding; since it has been long and justly marked that folly has ever sought alliance ..."

That beautiful people can be pretty dumb? Yes, definitely.

Emily I think the claim of an alliance between beauty and folly shows that women's hostility toward other women who are beautiful has been around for a long time and is not new.

My experience is that many who are beautiful are lacking in prudence and intelligence. There are some exceptions, like Evelina.

I've also met some people who I would not consider physically attractive who were also lacking in prudence and intelligence. And some smart people who were also beautiful.

I think we just notice it more when beautiful people are unintelligent or lacking in prudence because those are ugly qualities and it creates a strong contrast that stands out.

I very much agree, Anastasia. The fairy tales with which we grow up connect external beauty with all manner of good qualities, but there's no more truth in that than the opposite.

In Letter 10, Evelina goes to Drury Lane to see the famous actor, David Garrick. If you are not familiar with him, here is a link to his biography: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_G.... She see him in The Ranger and she envies Clarinda. http://luna.folger.edu/luna/servlet/d...

Emily, thank you for the informational links.

Letter 20 will be better understood if you knew something about the play Love for Love written by William Congreve: http://institucional.us.es/restoratio...

There is a debate in Letter 19 about the items in Cox's Museum. Here is something about James Cox and his museum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_C...

It does not make sense to me that Mr. Villars would allow Evelina to stay with Lady Howard and her daughter, knowing that Mrs. Mirvan was married to the uncouth and cruel Captain. I find the Captain extremely irritating.

It doesn't make sense that a daughter of Lady Howard would be given in marriage to the uncouth and cruel Captain.

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "It doesn't make sense that a daughter of Lady Howard would be given in marriage to the uncouth and cruel Captain."

So true!

Isn't it interesting that this book also dwells on appearance, as did our previous book, Frankenstein? At the risk of sounding like an embittered old crone, I'll admit that I have often thought that American girls could do themselves a favor by keeping their beautiful mouths in their beautiful faces smilingly SHUT. That way, observers would think how lovely they are, and not have the esthetic experience ruined by an unpleasant voice, not well-modulated, saying some inanity or other, revealing the "air-headedness" of the comely creatures.

Mizzou wrote: "Isn't it interesting that this book also dwells on appearance, as did our previous book, Frankenstein? At the risk of sounding like an embittered old crone, I'll admit that I have often thought tha..."

Why isn't there a like button?

Was finally able to start last night. I'll be listening to the Librivox recordings, and found to my delight that each letter is done by a different voice. There's a male reader for Mr. Villars, a female reader for Mrs. Howard, and another for Evelina. :)

The Captain seems to be a pretty obnoxious guy. His treatment of Madame Duvall seems rather brutish. Is this supposed to be comic relief?

I'm about halfway through and am torn between finding this charming and finding it tedious. The humor is rather tedious for me, although I recognize it was typical of the times. The author Burney acknowledges are very similar in comedic style. Also, Evelina is coming off as a bit of a stuck up prude... And I'm not sure if that's because there will be character development to come OR if it's simply the way young heroines were written at the time. Über virtuous examples of the perfect English virgin rose.

Mr. Vilars needs a smack in the head for caving in to Madame Duval. Wasn't this a time when a young woman could be "ruined" by having her reputation sullied? Hasn't Duval shown herself to be a nincompoop of poor judgement. Hasn't Eveline been clear enough about the compromising situations in which she has already been placed? Her guardian is coming off as a very nice but rather weak fellow. There is definitely a hint of if-anything-goes-wrong-it's-due-to-your-poor-judgement in his advice about the decision to send Eveline off with her wacky, histrionic granny.

Fanny Burney claimed she was influenced by Samuel Richardson's works. Here is an article about his books: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/201...

Renee wrote: "The Captain seems to be a pretty obnoxious guy. His treatment of Madame Duvall seems rather brutish. Is this supposed to be comic relief?"

It's one thing for Captain M to engage in verbal sparring matches with Duval, but to assault her is really going too, too far.

The Captain is an animal.

Renee wrote: "Was finally able to start last night. I'll be listening to the Librivox recordings, and found to my delight that each letter is done by a different voice. There's a male reader for Mr. Villars, a f..."

I'm glad you are pleased with your listening experience with Librivox. I tried it this year--I can't recal which book--and I gave up bec each section (not character!) was read by a different person. I didn't like listening to different voices that were not for specific characters.

@Renee'

I think for me, our heroine would seem stuck up IF the people whom she objected to were not so awful. All of the people whom she found objectionable, I sympathized with her for having to be set upon by such awful folks.

With regard to Rev Villars allowing Evelina to go to London with that Duval woman, it was the lesser of two evils to let Evelina return to the city with her grandmother.

I forgot what the option was that was weighed against a return trip to London under Duval's "care."

I think Sir Clement Willoughby is a stalker.

There doesn't seem to be anything that will repulse that man.

With regard to the letter from Lord Orville, (view spoiler)[I think this offensive letter was from Sir Clement pretending to be Lord O. (hide spoiler)]

☯Emily wrote: "Fanny Burney claimed she was influenced by Samuel Richardson's works. Here is an article about his books: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/201......"

Thank you Emily, for this link.

I don't think I want to read "Pamela" or "Clarissa."

Interesting, Andrea, that you and I have come to the same conclusion re: your spoiler.

(view spoiler)[The Captain is repulsive and one can understand why Willoughby becomes a fast friend so quickly. I feel very sorry for Evelina, but even more so when she is subjected to living with Duval and the horrid cousins. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[I was so proud of Evelina and think it speaks to her character that she stepped up to help the obviously distressed man who was being mistreated by the cousins. I think this kindness will come back to her in a good way later on. (hide spoiler)]

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "@Renee'

I think for me, our heroine would seem stuck up IF the people whom she objected to were not so awful. All of the people whom she found objectionable, I sympathized with her for having to b..."

Even the adults who are supposed to care and protect her are weak and useless. Lady Howard seems to have "a sort of tacit agreement between her and the Captain, that she should not appear to be acquainted with his schemes ; by which she at once avoids quarrels, and supports her dignity." Mrs. Mirvan "never speaks to the Captain when he is out of humour." Mr. Villars seems too old to be effective.

I am losing patience with everyone, especially after the "prank" on Madame Duval.

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "I think Sir Clement Willoughby is a stalker.

There doesn't seem to be anything that will repulse that man."

Today, Evelina would get a protective order against Sir Clement.

Sara, I agree with your spoiler.

Sara wrote: "Interesting, Andrea, that you and I have come to the same conclusion re: your spoiler.



Could you put your second paragraph in spoiler tags? I haven't got that far in the book.

☯Emily wrote: "Sara wrote: "Interesting, Andrea, that you and I have come to the same conclusion re: your spoiler.



Could you put your second paragraph in spoiler tags? I haven't got that far in the book."

I am sorry, Emily. Those things had already been discussed in open statements. I did not think I was giving anything away.