Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

Excerpt from DEBUNKING HOLOCAUST DENIAL THEORIES: Two Non-Jews Affirm the Historicity of the Nazi Genocide:

MYTH #9: “Elite (atheistic) Jews, who were all Zionists hellbent on creating a Jewish homeland, created the Holocaust for their own gain. These Zionists, like the Rothschild family, secretly pulled the strings of the Nazis to orchestrate millions of Jews being slaughtered in an effort to create enough international sympathy to form the nation of Israel (a plan which obviously succeeded).” –Anonymous Holocaust denier #9


If you think this sounds like the most outlandish conspiracy theory ever dreamed up about the Holocaust, you’re probably not wrong.

This particular myth deniers promote is the oddest of all as many (deniers) are essentially conceding the Holocaust occurred as per modern historians’ assessment in terms of the gassings and even the death toll. But here’s the rub: the Jews, not the Nazis, masterminded the Holocaust!

Yes, you read that right. This zany theory would have us believe Hitler and the Nazis were simply used as pawns to carry out the genocide plan of these evil, wealthy, Jewish elites.

Confused? You’re not alone!

High profile promoters of this bizarre Zionist-creation-of-the-Holocaust theory include former president of Iran Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and the Institute for Historical Review to name but a few, but more about them later.

Meanwhile, allow us to attempt to break down this Zionist genocide creation myth or conspiracy, whichever description you prefer.

As we understand it, this was supposedly a multi-tiered conspiracy that occurred over several decades from the dawn of modern Zionism until after WW2.

The alleged timeline of events looks something like this:

1. Zionism was formed as an official political movement in the late 1800’s with the goal of eventually creating a Jewish nation in the land that is now Israel.
2. By the early 20th Century, the global Jewish community, who at that time predominantly resided in Europe and the US, did not want to move to the Middle East despite the Zionists’ best efforts to entice them. Most Jews were happy to remain where they were born or had settled. At this point (in the eyes of those who subscribe to this theory we would remind you!) Jews and Muslims all got along, as did Jews and Christians, so there was no obvious reason or motivation for Jews to relocate to Israel as apparently anti-Semitism was not a big problem.
3. As there were no signs the Jewish populace would ever relocate of their own volition, Zionist banking dynasties like the Rothschild family in Europe and industry tycoons in the US devised an evil and ultimately bloody plan to encourage them to move there.
4. This Zionist cabal financed and helped clear the path for Hitler's war machine for the dual purpose of making truckloads of money by financing both sides in the war while, at the same time, engineering the Holocaust in order to scare surviving Jews to move to Israel.
5. After initially promising Hitler and the Nazis they would support them to the death, the Zionists then turned against the Germans and cleared the path once more – this time for the Allies to come in, save the surviving Jews and loudly announce to the world that the genocide that was the Holocaust had really occurred.
6. The international sympathy for the Jewish people was by this stage overwhelming, and the Zionists were then able to convince the international community to “turn a blind eye” as they illegally steamrolled into the Middle East and seized the Holy Land to create a Jewish nation.
7. After the Holocaust, surviving Jewish people were now only too happy to move to a protected homeland created for them, and the Zionists found it was easy to manipulate these remaining Jews to relocate by presenting the relocation as “freedom”.
8. And voilà: You have Israel!

Boy, do these deniers make a lot of assumptions. Not sure if they realize it, but they do come across as tinfoil-hat-wearing conspiracy extremists. You know the ones…They wear hats made out of aluminum foil to protect the brain from such threats such as mind control and electromagnetic fields.

We suggest they’d be better off adhering to Occam's razor – that 14th Century philosophical principle, which suggests the simplest explanation with the least amount of assumptions is usually the correct one.

The idea that a small group of elite Jewish bankers and businessmen pulled the strings of fascist politicians in the 1920s and 1930s, and that was the sole reason Adolf Hitler and his cronies took over Germany, and that was why the Nazis were able to establish the Third Reich (one of the most powerful empires in history remember), and Zionist support alone led to the Holocaust, which paved the way for the creation of Israel, is possibly the most highly-speculative, totally unproven and far-fetched connecting-the-dots-style conspiracy theory ever conjured up. Surely!

Tragically, this theory is often employed as a last ditch anti-Semitic effort by more educated deniers. The type who upon studying the Holocaust in-depth eventually realizes the weight of evidence for the genocide is overwhelming and beyond any shadow of doubt. Once that obvious truth sinks in, such deniers look for a way – any way – to convince themselves and others the “Jewsdidit”.

And the theory that the Zionists were behind the Holocaust allows them to continue their hate-filled agendas. Sad isn’t it?

As mentioned earlier, one promoter of the Zionist genocide creation myth is none other than one of the world’s most well-known Holocaust deniers, the former president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, whose favorite saying (in Persian) is reportedly “Death to Israel.”

In a speech given on the IRINN network on September 18, 2009, Ahmadinejad stated: “Anti-Semitism was planned mainly by some European governments and politicians, and by the Zionist network. They made hundreds of films, wrote hundreds of books, spread rumors, and conducted psychological warfare, in order to drive them away, to the land of Palestine. Four or five years after World War II, they suddenly claimed that during that war, the Holocaust affair had taken place. In other words, according to their claims, several million Jews were burned in the crematoria. They created two slogans. The first was about the injustice suffered by the Jewish people. By means of lies, very twisted propaganda, and psychological warfare, they created the notion that the Jews suffered injustice, and, secondly, that they needed a land and an independent state. They acted so effectively that some of the world's politicians and intellectuals were also deceived and influenced.”

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who is the successor to Yasser Arafat, clearly shares similar thoughts in relation to the Zionists’ role in the Holocaust. In 1982, President Abbas wrote his doctoral dissertation on the subject and titled it “The Secret Connection between the Nazis and the Leaders of the Zionist Movement.” In that thesis, Abbas expressed his belief that gas chambers were never used by Nazis to murder Jews.

The following year, Abbas’ book The Other Side: the Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism was published. It was an expanded version of his thesis, and in it Abbas not only denies that six million Jews died in the Holocaust, he also dismisses the Nazi genocide as a “fantastic lie” and summarizes it as a “myth.” He claims the minor death toll had had been exaggerated by Zionists to further their agenda.

While later appearing to change his tune and acknowledge that the Holocaust did occur and was a terrible injustice against the Jewish people, Abbas remained true to the other aspect of his original thesis: that the Holocaust was a joint effort between Nazis and Zionists. In fact, in 2012, the Palestinian President told the Hezbollah-associated Beirut television station Al Mayadeen that he “challenges anyone who can deny that the Zionist movement had ties with the Nazis before World War Two.”

Apart from being a fairly popular theory subscribed to in the Muslim world, it is also one regularly used by deniers in the West to shift blame away from the Nazis, white people or Catholics/Christians and instead solely blame Jews for the Holocaust.

Such bigotry is another way of saying, “Even if the Holocaust did happen as historians attest, the Rothschilds and other evil Zionists obviously created it all and therefore Joooz are still responsible either way – for the real genocide or the hoax version – and therefore it wasn't the Germans’ fault as they were, of course, the real victims.”

What is staggering is that this is one of the most subscribed-to Holocaust denial theories. Possibly that’s because of the complexity of the theory.
Anti-Semites can be very crafty and adept at converting impressionable minds by obfuscating their bigotry with half-truths – such as their assertion that many in high finance and the banking elite are bastards. (Something more than a few of us would agree with no doubt). Such obfuscation can be problematic as most 9-5 workers in this world just don’t have the time or inclination to extensively research history and fact-check obscure theories or alternative versions of history.

In truth, all that supports this particular Holocaust denial myth, and variations on it, are a few tiny pieces of evidence and nothing remotely resembling proof or the smoking gun deniers would have us believe they have uncovered. (Those leaning toward denialism shouldn’t get too excited about our reference to evidence being found. Keep in mind evidence is only ever a fact that suggests something might be true, unlike proof, which is something that removes all doubt).

According to our research, up until the 1920s and even early 1930s, the likes of the Rothschilds and other Jewish banking elites channeled funds to the German government and to German/Swiss banks who were early supporters of the Nazi regime. And yes, some of the banking elites of the day were pushing for a Zionist nation (a modern version of ancient Israel) long before WW2.

However, conspiracy-minded researchers are drawing a mighty long bow if they expect anyone to believe a small group of bankers could pull the strings of the all-powerful Third Reich – an empire so powerful it took the combined might of the Soviets, British and Americans and all their allies around the world – to finally bring it down.

Incredibly, these same researchers (let’s call them what they are – conspiracy theorists) imply the Zionists had crystal ball-like prophetic powers that enabled them to predict with absolute certainty that this fascist regime would not only eventually lose the war, but would also commit the Holocaust atrocity yet somehow leave enough Jews alive to be able to form the nation of Israel.

How would those orders be written up? “Kill a lot, but not too many” perhaps. Or “Kill six million, but no more.”

Go figure!

There was also massive funding for the Nazis from the Vatican Bank. So how come nobody promotes an equivalent conspiracy theory stating the Catholics bankrolled the Nazis to create the Holocaust for their own devious purposes? Or they bankrolled them or to wipe the Jews off the face of the Earth in some fundamentalist echo of the Biblical era?

It’s likely you could find as much “evidence” to support that theory quite easily – if that's the path you wanted to follow.

Additional excerpt from DEBUNKING HOLOCAUST DENIAL THEORIES: Two Non-Jews Affirm the Historicity of the Nazi Genocide:

We have also taken the time to fact-check many quotes that have been attributed to members of the Rothschild family, including those that are being used to support this particular Holocaust denial myth. And 90% of these quotes have been fabricated, often by members of the Muslim fundamentalist community as well as by neo-Nazis or Nazi apologists. It’s no coincidence that such false quotes paint a nasty picture of Zionism ruling our planet.

One of numerous examples of such quotes, or other people’s quotes being wrongly attributed to the Rothschilds, is one that is cited all over the Internet and has even been published in books. Since 1935, it has been repeatedly claimed that Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744–1812) once said: “Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!”

Historians not only agree there is no way to verify who made that statement, but they unanimously agree the quote is a rehashed version of a statement made by Scottish politician Andrew Fletcher (1655–1716) – before the Rothschild in question was even born!

Fletcher wrote the following oft-quoted remark in his 1703 book, An Account of a Conversation concerning a right regulation of Governments for the common good of Mankind: “If a man were permitted to make all the ballads, he need not care who should make the laws of a nation.”

Alas, such salacious quotes by power-mad gentiles are not worth repeating or even correctly attributing to the individual…

What also strongly refutes the Zionist denial theory is that many of the Jewish bankers of the mid-20th Century (those “evil Zionist bankers”) had to flee Germany and other European nations to avoid persecution by the Nazis. Undoubtedly, most of those bankers had the wealth and connections to obtain safe passage to the United States, Britain and elsewhere to avoid becoming victims of the Holocaust, but the point is they still had to flee. This fact directly contradicts that wacky theory that elite Jewish bankers (often nicknamed Zionist-expletives all over the Internet) were in bed with the Nazis or even controlling the entire Third Reich so they could create the Holocaust.

Further undermining this particular denial theory is that not all members of the Jewish banking elite avoided the wrath of the Nazis.

For example, Élisabeth de Rothschild (1902-1945) died in the Holocaust after being captured by the Gestapo in France whilst trying to flee the Nazis. Élisabeth was sent to Ravensbrück concentration camp where she died.

In a less violent but still valid example, Louis Nathaniel de Rothschild, of Austria, is a Holocaust survivor who was imprisoned for a period after his property was seized in 1938, and he lost all his assets including the family’s palace. Louis also had a hard fight hard to achieve freedom from the Nazis for his (Jewish) wife and children.

Let’s face it, Rothschild Holocaust theories and similar beliefs about “evil Zionist bankers” are yet another way for anti-Semites and deniers of the Nazi genocide to distract from the historical facts.

Again, we are not trying to defend, or even comment on, the overall financial empire of the Rothschilds or the way they conduct their operations – that is all a totally separate matter. Nor do we support any of the banking elite (Jewish or non-Jewish) for that matter. Just because the Rothschilds are Jewish does not mean they are for the Jewish people. For all we know, the Rothschilds may be elitists first and foremost, their primary religion may be money not Judaism, and their ethnicity may be the color of money. In other words, they may have no allegiance to any nation or community of people whatsoever.

Just because George W. Bush, Barack Obama and Tony Blair are all Christians or Catholics, does that mean we should assume everything they say and do is representative of their religion or is on behalf of their faith or denomination? That makes no more sense than suggesting everything those three individuals do is on behalf of all white people or all black people.

Keep in mind there are always certain races or followers of certain religions or doctrines who dominate specific fields. So yes, there are many Jewish banking clans to be found in the world of high finance. But if you stop to think about it, why is it the deniers single out Jews and the banking field only?

We would estimate 95% of what is termed the ‘ruling elite’ or global elite – the so-called 1% whose members include the likes of World Bank executives, Bilderbergers, senior CIA staffers and British Royals – are white and Christian. And maybe 60% or so are also American.

So, why aren't those deniers who single out the Jews and who state or imply that “Joooz control the world” saying “Whites control Mother Earth and wage war against non-whites, and the world we live in is the result of white supremacy” – and why aren’t they saying that “Christianity is trying to destroy all other religions” or that “the United States is the reason for all the world's problems and America is secretly running the entire world.”???

The answer can once again be summarized in two words: anti-Semitism.


“Holocaust deniers claim that there is a vast conspiracy involving the victorious powers of World War II, Jews, and Israel to propagate the Holocaust for their own ends.” –United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, HOLOCAUST DENIERS AND PUBLIC MISINFORMATION


When it comes to debunking this “Zionists are responsible” Holocaust denial myth, we think the aforementioned and painstakingly-researched Nizkor Project handled it best in its reply to one of the most outlandish claims made by the Institute for Historical Review.

IHR, which is considered by most scholars to be the center of the international Holocaust denial movement, stated, “Before the war, Germany signed an agreement with the Zionists permitting Jews to take large amounts of capital to Palestine. During the war, the Germans maintained cordial relations with the Zionist leadership.”
To which Nizkor replied as follows:

“Cordial relations? Now really. With a leadership that had declared publicly, again and again, that Jews are vermin that should be exterminated? … This…seems to be another internal contradiction. They (IHR) say that "Judea" and "the Jews" declared war on Germany six years before World War II started. The IHR should make up its mind: either the Germans were vilified by the hateful Jews, or the Germans are such good people that even the hateful Jews were able to maintain "cordial relations" with them. They can't have it both ways.”

The posts above tie in with this discussion thread:

The Israeli connection -- https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Ken Livingstone muddies history to support claims on Hitler and Zionism -- Former London mayor confuses agency with intention, with fatal consequences for his garbled argument https://www.theguardian.com/politics/...
"Ken Livingstone persists in mangling facts to suit his argument in his continued attempt to defend his comments on Hitler and Zionism."

Yes, The Left’s Anti-Semitism Is More Pronounced Than The Alt-Right’s http://thefederalist.com/2016/12/22/y...
"The average Jewish American will encounter far more systemic anti-Semitism as an undergraduate at college than in encounters with the alt-right or middle America."

Prominent British MP: Anti-Zionism Is ‘Simply Antisemitism Minding Its Manners So It Can Sit in a Seminar Room’ https://www.algemeiner.com/2016/12/16...
In an op-ed published in the Times of London, Michael Gove — the MP for Surrey Heath and a former secretary of state for justice — wrote, “Antisemitism has moved from hatred of Jews on religious or racial grounds to hostility towards the proudest expression of Jewish identity we now have — the Jewish state.”