Reader's Paradise discussion

Hey!

Though I still have 49 pages left ...
I was just too excited to create the thread!

Would be great to discuss this one in depth!

Glad that you did. :D

Finish it tonight.. We'll start discussing tomorrow! Finally! :P

Well.. umm tell everything that you didn't understand ....

And umm one thing that I think is that colonel sanders is the depiction of good and johnny walker as evil ... kafka's dad was evil, johnny walker was, and so was the white creature that wanted to go into the stone!

while the boy named crow, and colonel sanders are good ...

This also explains somewhat why miss saeki left kafka ... he was born to evil and maybe didn't want him to turn evil ...

That is one interpretation. But why do you think Johnny Walker wanted to achieve by that flute he was planning to create with the dead cats' souls? And what was that part about him in the forest talking to the boy named Crow?

Also if Miss Saeki did not want his son to turn into evil like his father, shouldn't she have taken him along with her? Why leave him behind to be nurtured by the evil himself?

And how exactly was Nakata and Miss Saeki connected? She recognized him almost instantly but how is Nakata even related to this circle of Kafka's?

I understand it isn't reality, it's called magical realism after all, but there are just so many things I am unable to figure out. :\

you can say that ... umm evil keep growing .. devouring all the good and innocent thing .. the flute maybe just something to tell about stages of evil maybe? like first its small devours cats.. then it grows to devour other things and so on ...
about miss saeki leaving him I didn't mean it that way ... kafka genetically is half of his father ... so I meant maybe she didn't want to see him (0.5 probability) turn evil as his father ... its genetically imbibed ...
well, miss saeki says right? nakata is the boy in the background of the portrait of kafka on the shore...

one thing I didn't understand was if miss saeki knew kafka was her son ... why would she sleep with him? only if kafka tamura is the re incarnation of kafka on the shore it makes sense ..

but re-incarnation? there's nothing about re-incarnation in the story!

u have any theory of yours?

That was way too uncomfortable for me, that particular part. The first time it happened, she wasn't really aware of what she was doing but the second time, she did it consciously. The only explanation I can think of is that she saw the reflection of her childhood sweetheart in Kafka- reincarnation of that person, you could say. Even then it doesn't really make sense. :|

Also Kafka believed that he was destined to fulfill his father's prophecy- that he will kill his own father and violate his mother and sister. He believed that would happen anyway no matter how much he tried to avoid this fate. About killing Johnny Walker, how do you explain the part where Nakata kills him but wakes up later in completely clean clothes whereas Kafka's clothes are smeared with blood?

About the smearing of blood thing ... well

Remember the guy who tagged along with nakata? I forgot his name...
Hoshino! yeah ..

Remember the cat? he says that when you see it you'll feel the urge to kill it ... What I thought was as hoshino was killing the creature . it was actually the crow killing johnny walker ... U see.. parallel worlds .... They overlap somehow ...

Something similar to that ... I was thinking that the feeling nakata got to kill kafka's dad .. I think it was Kafka's feeling which went through him .. or it was kafka doing the killing over there instead of nakata .. like nakata was inside kafka's ghost/ whatever .. while kafka killed his dad .. kafka goes bck to takamatsu ... and nakata is as he is ...

Also remember that Kafka remembers until the café in the station and then he found himself in a shrine? He travelled there unknowingly ... like nakata woke up in the empty plot instead of johny walkers house right? Maybe kafka dragged nakata to the plot and in the parallel universe .. his real body too was doing the same action and his body ended up in the shrine ... and nakata ended up in the plot ...

Btw do u think it's the same shrine that hoshino found the entrance stone?

And what do you think what actually happened that the children fainted? what's the link between the teacher and nakata? we can't say why it happened to nakata .. but I think we can think about how the incident happened right? who could've opened the entrance stone then? I got a theory about it while reading .. But now I don't recollect it ... I think if you talk something about it I may recollect it ...

And yes I yet didn't find your theory about the story here :| :p

I don't have any theories about the book as such. All I have is a number of queries and for most part I agree with you/your theories. So far.

The killing of Mr. Tamura and Kafka being smeared with blood the same night- I think it was possibly done by the entrance stone. It has to be the same Shrine where Kafka wakes up that night having absolutely no idea whatsoever about how he reached there and where Hoshino finds the entrance stone. Considering its name is 'entrance stone', probably the soul of Kafka entered in there and made Nakata kill Johnny Walker and returned once the job was done. So I'm pretty much sticking to your theory here, provided the stone was opened before. But it wasn't mentioned anywhere. It was quite a task to open (or close) it as we read, so if our assumptions are correct, who do you think could have opened it? Did Kafka do it himself in his subconscious? Could it be Colonel Sanders?

Johnny Walker and Colonel Sanders are both abstract concepts- one representing evil, another good. So maybe the Colonel helped in the murder of the evil? The actual death of the evil takes place when Hoshino kills that white creature though. Remember how the boy named Crow tried to kill Johnny Walker in the woods, but no matter how he attacked, he could not kill him. Between the opening and closing of the stone, JW was out there somewhere, lurking, and once Nakata died he tried to come back to the world through the entrance stone which Hoshino prevented by closing the stone ultimately.

Here's an idea so as to connect several incidents of the book. (You may call it a theory if you please :P) This isn't something I came up with myself (not entirely at least). You may check this link for further details. It pretty much explains everything.

Review of Kafka on the Shore

All the characters are made of body and spirit. The entrance stone, when opened, allows the spirit of a person to be transferred between bodies while once the stone is closed, no return is possible.

So the chronology of the incidents-

1. Hillside incident - kids fall unconscious. Nakata (body and mind) loses all his memory - Miss Saeki (body and mind) has opened the entrance stone to reunite with her lover - Kafka (the boy she saw on the shore).

2. Miss Saeki loses her spirit and becomes a hollow person in this world, working at the library with Oshima. (This explains why Kafka Tamura saw the 15 year old Miss Saeki in the library nights after nights).

3. The body of Kafka Tamura leaves his home in search of his own spirit - which he finds at the library in Takmatsura (in the room with 15 year old Miss Saeki; in effect, the spirit of Kafka Tamura is really the living spirit of Miss Seiki's lover, whose body was killed in the university).

3.a. At this point, the real spirit of Kafka Tamura leaves his body and goes into Nakata. This is why Nakata and Kafka Tamura are both drawn toward each other, on parallel paths that eventually converge - on a spiritual level - when the entrance stone is closed and things are "set straight".

4. Miss Saeki's spirit remains as a 15 year old girl (and appears in the room, where the body of Kafka Tamura sleeps with her - in his "dream" world).

4a. As such, Kafka Tamura's spirit has left his body (and gone into Nakata's body) and has been replaced by the Kafka on the shore's spirit - so he sleeps with what his body thinks is his mother.

5. Kafka Tamura's father's spirit takes shape as a concept - Johnnie Walker.

5.a. Nakata (Kafka Tamura's spirit) murders the Johnnie Walker (the spirit of Kafka Tamura's father).

5.b. Kafka Tamura reclaims his living spirit in the world, retains memories and escapes spirit forest before closing of the entrance stone.

6. Nakata is seeking to close the entrance stone in order to free the spirit of Kafka Tamura inside him - at the expense of Miss Saeki's bodily life, as her spirit will have to remain forever in the spirit world, making her body die. (When the entrance stone is closed, no longer can your body live without a spirit)

6.a. As such, Nakata's body dies since his spirit is Kafka Tamura's spirit - which returns to Kafka Tamura when his bodily self overcomes the spirit inside him -Kafka on the shore- so his body returns to the bodily world, leaving the 15 yr old Miss Saeki in the forest and acting as a transporter of Kafka on the shore's spirit (back to the spirit world). His body leaves to reclaim his own spirit (from Nakata).

7. Nakata's spirit goes into Hoshino (speaks to cats) and uses Hoshino's body to close the entrance stone. (Note: Nakata's spirit leaves him when he is "weak" and sleeps for long periods of time to become the concept, Colonel Sanders who guides Hoshino to complete the closing of the entrance stone mission).

As confusing as it sounds, it does make sense actually. Go through the full review in the blog. :)

But wait ... Miss saeki opened the stone when she was 15 and Nakata fell unconcious when he was a kid ... But Nakata is older than miss saeki ... So when miss saeki opened the entrance stone ... Nakata should be older to her ... Not younger!

That struck me as well but maybe since the spirit of Miss Saeki left her body, she wasn't living all those years until the stone was closed! I mean nobody knew where she was for quite some time, she practically disappeared! So.. I don't know.. just a wild guess.. too ridiculous to be true though. :P

Whatever could've happened ... But she couldn't have opened thestone when Nakata was younger than her!

Um I don't now.. it made sense..the whole theory.

Okay setting this theory aside, how do you explain the hillside incident? What do you think could have caused that mass unconsciousness? Also it is to note that all the children, not only Nakata, fell unconscious that day..so entrance stone theory seems to have another loophole.

well I just got a wild idea right now ...
Umm the teacher .. remember she got a wet erotic dream about her husband? She said it was too real? Maybe it was her spirit doing what was being done with her hubbys spirit ..

And remember the time to open the entrance stone is when weird happens?
Her period started at the wrong time .. so maybe .. that was the incident when the entrance stone had to be opened .. and remember she hid her bloodstained underwear under a "rock" ? she may have opened the entrance stone then .. that rock may have been the entrance stone!!!

next she was furious and embarrassed when nakata found her stuff ... so she hit him .. maybe her spirit hit him .. and the spirits feelings were so strong that all the children felt the effect of the spirit and fainted from the impact .. but nakata being hit physically and the spirit .. he lost half his shadow ....

And then she hid the underwear again .. closing the entrance stone ... the weird thing that happened was all kids fainting ..

But if it was when she hid it under the 'rock', the entrance stone was opened, how did her spirit did whatever it did the night before?

And you did change the name of the thread after all. :P

well even kafkas spirit kill johny walker when the stone wasn't opened ...
spirit stuff doesn't need entrance stone ...
entrance stone is only to open the pathway to the other world .. the town where there are buildings in the forest

Okay, I'm convinced, partly because I can not come up with any better explanation. :P

Are we starting Room today or tomorrow?
Are you participating in tomorrow's readathon? :|

okay ... room i'll start on Monday .. coz i'll finish maus today ..
sunday I'm going on a trek with dad

and theres a readathon tomorrow?

Yeah, there was a readathon, 24 hours long. ._.

You still haven't changed the name. :P

change to what? we dropped the book remember?
searching for a better one ... :p

That's true but I thought we could change it to something general. That way you won't have to change the name each time we pick up a new book to read.

ohh okay ...

this better?

Is this a long time BR thread? ^▽^

yes

we'll be reading our books here ... discussing for the next one actually ..

Good luck Kushal and Damini :)

Kushal wrote: "this better?"

Yeah. :D

Ginny- Yes, that's what we're planning to do. :)

Arpit- Thank you. :)

Vins, this will be my spam adda, sort of :P

Gehna wrote: "Vins, this will be my spam adda, sort of :P"
dekhte hai kitna spam kar paoge aap :v ...

Dekhte hai ;)

*Brings in a couch and sits with Ginny*

Spamming is now officially moderator approved! Phew! :D

Dis you start Sandman?
Isn't it a little confusing? I'm wondering if this is the beginning or maybe there are some Prelude or something?

u started ?
i'll start in eve

6 pages. Was just going through the pages. Let me know when you start.

Isn't it unfair that two girls gang up to beat a guy? That's morals ...
The guy doesn't care .. He could swat away a horde of little girls anytime ...
PS: @vinny ... could u lift a couch by yourself?

Well ... I'll start it at 1700

A boy shouldn't complain if a boy does not fear the consequences.

A girl can use magic tricks to lift a couch by herself. It's a world of magical realism. *_*

The girl who cant lift a laptop from downstairs? she getting a couch? it's impossible even in Murakami-verse! :p

Plus the boy was talking of morals :p

by the way .. I finished sandman #1 !
TBH .. I didn't understand half of it .. I need explanations ...

I could get the laptop -_- I just did not want to go through all the hassle to explain my mother why I wanted to unlock the room again. :3

Kushal wrote: "by the way .. I finished sandman #1 !
TBH .. I didn't understand half of it .. I need explanations ..."

I didn't understand much either.. though I haven't finished yet. :|

http://thecentrecannothold.net/readin...

Check this link. Maybe we should refer to some sources.
Also Broke posted a Gaiman related picture today and I asked him if he could share the correct order for reading Sandman, he said he would. Will keep an eye at that thread. :)

Check this one out?
http://www.shelfabuse.com/comic-book-...

The Sandman
1989-1996

Preludes and Nocturnes
The Doll’s House
Dream Country
Season of Mists
A Game of You
Fables and Reflections
Brief Lives
Worlds’ End
The Kindly Ones
The Wake

I think we started from Dream Country? I'm not certain though. Whatever it is, I'm giving up on Sandman for the time being.

Lets start Neverwhere, shall we?

we started the right way only
:p
and well neverwhere tonight?

All the light we cannot see it is!
I just started it!

Howdy buddy? :D

Still expecting to finish the book? :P