A Tree Grows in Brooklyn Readalong discussion

Let's talk about chapters 7-14!

I finished reading Book 2 and earlier today and I'm continuing to really enjoy reading this book.

My favorite part of book 2 was learning about Francie's grandmother expressing the importance of Katie (Francie's mom) reading to Francie and Neely. Francie's mom feels that reading the Bible and Shakesphere are the best books for Katie to read to her children. Also, Francie's grandmother teaching Katie the importance of instilling imagination into her children. Again, we see the beauty that can come from a simplier life. I think that in present day our children often don't develop their imaginations as much as chidren from previous generations. Everything nowadays is so instant and digital, which has it's benefits, but I think imagination can suffer sometimes.

My heart broke when Francie was left out of playing with the group of neighborhood kids. They found her wierd because she spoke using the language of the Bible and Shakesphere, the books that are read to her every night. I think this is every parents nightmare, that they won't find a group of kids that accept them for who they are. Francie is such a great kid and these kids won't even bother to get to know her.

I'm sure it was also very hard to keep moving every time someone in the family embaresses them, mostly Sissy and Johnny (father). Did you like that what Sissy gave Francie and Neely in the cigarette box wasn't told? (or did I miss something?) What do you think it was?

I really enjoyed going back in time in this portion of the book and seeing how Katie and Johnny's love story began, as well as Francie and Neely's early days.

Becky wrote: "I finished reading Book 2 and earlier today and I'm continuing to really enjoy reading this book.

My favorite part of book 2 was learning about Francie's grandmother expressing the importance of K..."

YES! That whole chapter, actually, I found so poignant and full of truth, sometimes sweet, sometimes bitter. Mary's thoughts on reading (which, studies now show that reading is a huge indicator of at *least* academic success) were so wonderful; but I was especially struck by her thoughts on imagination. Katie questions her mother, '"Why? When I, myself, do not believe?"
"Because," explained Mary Rommely simply, "The child must have a valuable thing which is called imagination. The child must have a secret world in which live things that never were. It is necessary that she believe. She must start out by believing in things not of this world. Then when the world becomes too ugly for living in, the child can reach back and live in her imagination."' And we see Katie cultivating this in Francie and Neeley - like when they have little to eat and Katie and the children pretend to be arctic explorers.

Book two seems to be set up as kind of the family history. We get to know Katie and Johnny and their families and how they met. I loved this sentence (first line of ch.8), because I think it explains so much, "The Rommelys ran to women of strong personalities. The Nolans ran to weak and talented men." Katie is resourceful and savvy and no nonsense. Johnny is a sweet natured dreamer who wants to do his best, but buckles when life gets hard.

I also just want to point out that the tree got a mention! When Francie is born (in ch 10) Katie's neighbors tell her that the baby won't live. Katie is so fierce! She responds, "Don't say that," Katie held her baby tightly. "It's not better to die. Who wants to die? Everything struggles to live. Look at that tree growing up there out of that grating. It gets no sun, and water only when it rains. It's growing out of sour earth. And it's strong because it's hard struggle to live is making it strong. My children will be strong that way."

BEAUTIFUL!

And finally, just a last comment for the time being. It really kind of bothers me that Katie plays favorites with her kids. She admits to loving Neeley more (at least to herself) but of *course* Francie knows. And because of that, Johnny is Francie's favorite parent. And why not? If you know that one of your parents doesn't like you as much as your sibling of course you will gravitate to the other parent. Was anyone else bothered by that? And just a sneak peak - in the next book we see some of that favoritism playing out. But I wonder how (or if) it will continue to have ramifications?

Wow, Becky and Katie, you said everything I had marked in book 2. I loved the advice Mary Rommerly gave her daughter about raising Francie. Katie, you listed the exact quote that I highlighted and felt it was such good advice. It was nice getting to know the back story of the family and how Katie and Johnny met. So full of romantic love, till reality starts to set in. Life!

Katie, I noticed how the the mother said "it was out of pity and obligation towards her (Francie) that she felt rather then love". Wow, it was tough to read her thoughts of her child. I felt so sorry for Francie knowing she'll never receive love from her mom like her brother will. Even holding her back from school for a year so she can start with her younger brother.

Yes, I loved the tree analogy!! So profound! I noticed the tree analogy also in the very beginning of the book. Really brings to light the title. Beautiful writing.

I just love Francie. I adored the part when her grandmother was making rainbows on the wall with the water in the cruet. Then when Francie held it she couldn't make the rainbow appear so she dumps the water out thinking the rainbow would fall out. How precious, so innocent and imaginative at such a young age.

Becky, I thought the passage with the kids playing with Sissy's cigarette box and stringing the contents out the window were condoms. I had to read that again to make sure I was reading it correctly. Can you imagine coming home....especially in those days, to find your kids innocently hung condoms out the window...lol. I guess Sissy was hiding them from her husband due to many escapes away from home. Is that how you took the passage, Becky?

What did everyone think of Sissy "nursing" Johnny through his alcohol withdrawals. I felt uneasy just reading the way she "mothered" him...kind of creepy...yes/no? And how Katie felt....but she did allow her sister to take care of him. Eeek...strange relationship to say the least.

Anyway, looking forward to continuing book 3.

Patricia wrote: "Wow, Becky and Katie, you said everything I had marked in book 2. I loved the advice Mary Rommerly gave her daughter about raising Francie. Katie, you listed the exact quote that I highlighted and ..."

Oh my goodness, I didn't pick up on the fact that they were condoms AT ALL!! I can be so dense sometimes. I *did* get that Sissy worked at a rubber factory that must have produced condoms - and congratulated myself that I picked up on a discreet reference that went right over my head when I read the book as a kid. Although, strange question, when were condoms invented?

And I don't remember the rainbow in a cup scene either, but I may need to go back and find it because that is the sweetest image.

Yes, Katie's relationship and feelings toward Francie just continue to eat away at me. It makes me so sad, and I'm not sure I fully understand why she doesn't love Francie. In so many ways I love Katie and her resourcefulness and her hard-won wisdom, her willingness to sacrifice for her children - but I don't get how she feels about Francie, and I think it makes her less sympathetic.

And in reference to the marriage between Katie and Johnny, Katie did what I'm afraid so many women do: she married him while still hoping to change him. It's a recipe for resentment and hurt and disappointment - not that I'm a marriage expert. At the beginning of ch. 9: "Katie had married Johnny because she liked the way he sang and danced and dressed. Womanlike, she set about changing all those things in him after marriage."

Yes, Becky! So true! I feel like I know Brooklyn in the early 20th century.

Katie, the story of Francie looking for the rainbow to pour from the bottle is found in Chapter 12.

You ladies have mentioned just about everything I've been thinking about Book Two. I absolutely loved the grandmother's advice to Katie, particularly the bit about imagination. I've sometimes wondered about the help vs. harm of telling my kids about Santa, the Easter Bunny, etc., but Mary's take on that is perfect to me.

Did anyone else wish they could have had the job at the school Johnny and Katie had when they first married? :) The description of their time there working together and enjoying each other's company was so enjoyable to read. It's unfortunate the magic of their early relationship does not last.

Sissy's character perplexes me. I found myself going between sympathizing with her and being simply confused by her behavior, i.e., her "mothering" of her sister's husband. In the end, though, I think I like her. :)

As some of you have mentioned, Katie's feelings toward Francie are a troubling realization. I enjoy so much of Katie's character, her steeliness, wisdom, and hard-working nature, but I cannot get past her feelings for Francie. Having three children myself, I know you can love your children differently as they are different people, but the amount of love is the same. I can't imagine feeling "less love" for any one of them.

Ready for Book Three!

Katie wrote: "Becky wrote: "I finished reading Book 2 and earlier today and I'm continuing to really enjoy reading this book.

My favorite part of book 2 was learning about Francie's grandmother expressing the i..."

Yes, Katie being aware of favoring Neely over Francie and continuing to behave that way I found bothersome.

Patricia wrote: "Wow, Becky and Katie, you said everything I had marked in book 2. I loved the advice Mary Rommerly gave her daughter about raising Francie. Katie, you listed the exact quote that I highlighted and ..."

Yes, that's what I thought too. I had to read it twice as well. At first, I'm like why didn't Betty Smith just say that it was condoms? But, the more I think about it, the more realistic not saying the word "condom" is to the time the story takes place. They don't say any of these kinds of words ever. It's kind of brilliant and true to the world at this time.

Katie wrote: "Patricia wrote: "Wow, Becky and Katie, you said everything I had marked in book 2. I loved the advice Mary Rommerly gave her daughter about raising Francie. Katie, you listed the exact quote that I..."

Hahaha Katie, I felt dense or like I was missing something too. I re-read the section, thinking for sure I missed something obvious...but, no. I thought it was condoms, but I also wasn't sure if they were even invented yet. I'm glad it wasn't just me, that that part was hard to tell for sure. :)

Becky wrote: "Just finished Book Two and my heart hurts so much for sweet little Francie. I do love how we get a glimpse into the Rommelys and the Nolans. It also broke my heart in Chapter 7 when we find out Fra..."

Atmospheric is a great way to describe this book! I'm reading it a lot slower then usual and I think that's because I'm just enjoying slowly walking through this life with them.

Becky, I'm reading a lot slower then normal also. But I agree, I'm enjoying going slowly with them through their life. And the fact I'm fixing up the house for company next week and haven't had nearly the time to read as I normally do is really slowing me down also. Can't wait for my family to visit but secretly, I'm looking forward to everything getting back to normal after they leave and sitting for a day or two and finishishing this captivating story.

My main thought while reading book 2 was: I am so glad that I (as a woman) live here and now in 2016 in a first world country. Life was so tough especially for women the further back in time you go. I don't judge Katie for favoring Neely over Francie. She had so few resources and it really seemed like Francie wouldn't make it. Of course she is going to put her effort into the healthier child. It is hard for us to imagine now but I can see being afraid to really get attached to Francie for fear of losing. I loved the advice the grandmother gave about all the kinds of things to teach the kids (not just the reading but the folklore etc). The passing on of their heritage is so important and makes me think of the stories my grandmother told me and my cousins over and over about her life in the great depression.

Jellicle wrote: "My main thought while reading book 2 was: I am so glad that I (as a woman) live here and now in 2016 in a first world country. Life was so tough especially for women the further back in time you go..."

Interesting! I actually read the exact opposite into Katie's feelings toward Francie and Neeley. She spends a lot of time reflecting about how Francie is strong and resourceful and will be able to get by without her help. Even when she's first born and people are speculating that she'll die, Katie insists that she's like the trees that grow in Brooklyn (it was one of the tree references in the book!) and that she'll make it and be stronger for it. Neeley may be healthier (at least at first - I think Francie was only weakly as a baby, but fine as she grows older), but she worries about him more because she's afraid he'll follow in Johnny's footsteps. I struggle a lot with that aspect of Katie throughout the whole book. She says that she needs to be careful not to let on that she loves Neeley more, and yet, her feelings are crystal clear with every response to her children and every decision she makes. I find it hard to read.

Katie wrote: "Jellicle wrote: "My main thought while reading book 2 was: I am so glad that I (as a woman) live here and now in 2016 in a first world country. Life was so tough especially for women the further ba..."

I was thinking back to my psych class, animal behavior, which has a lot to do with the biology of our decisions. Animal parents will often abandon offspring that are sickly, weak, injured etc because they can't afford to put resources into a baby that won't survive so they 'favor' the others. Obviously it is more complicated with people but I can see that being an unconscious factor in Katie's decisions/actions. :)

Oh you ladies have mentioned all the things I thought or took to heart about Book 2! The imagination quote is just...touching because as a child that was my form of escape during rough times! I cried reading that again! But it's a therapeutic cry...reading this as a grown woman is making me realize how far or full circle you come from a traumatic childhood...it's just brilliant writing...

Ok nuff melodrama...I absolutely loved the whole family background..we see why Katie & Johnny are the way they are...not that I'm excusing Katie for not loving Francie more but to me, the way her dad treated her-loveless; her husband-a drunk dreamer, I feel her energy or love is going to Neely to give him a different path? You can totally call me out if I'm wrong...and she's like her father not liking her girl too...which is just bogus!

Ok didn't know the box was condoms so you are not alone Katie!!! Like HELLO!!!

Started book 3...so behind