Bright Young Things discussion

William Faulkner was one of the major authors of the twentieth century, and most of his works were written and published within the BYT time frame.

This brief description is from Penguin Modern Classics.

William Faulkner was born near Oxford, Mississippi, in 1897. He was rejected by the U.S. Army when America entered the First World War. He became a pilot in the Canadian Flying Corp. After the war he attended the University of Mississippi and for several years did odd jobs of many kinds. While working in New Orleans he met Sherwood Anderson, the novelist, who encouraged him: as a result he wrote his first novel, Soldiers Pay (1926).

Other titles followed.

The Sound and the Fury (1929)
As I Lay Dying (1930) which he wrote between the hours of midnight and 4 a.m. during a space of six summer weeks.
Then came
Sanctuary (1931)
Light in August (1932)
The Unvanquished (1934)
Absalom, Absalom (1936)
The Wild Palms (1939)
Go Down, Moses (1942)
Intruder in the Dust (1948)
Requiem for a Nun (1951)

I remember when I read As I Lay Dying. I was twenty five years old laid up for two weeks with chicken pox. I got some reading done. This book resinated with me, the one that stuck.

I loved the book and have Faulkner as a favourite author, though shamefully I have to admit I have had five other of his titles for quite some years on the book shelves, William Faulkner's As I Lay Dying is the only one of his I've read.

I have just read George Orwell's essay, Raffles and Miss Blandish (1944) which looks at two authors, E. H. Hornung, the Raffles author, and James Hadley Chase, (English author) who wrote No Orchids For Miss Blandish.
Orwell writes that No Orchids For Miss Blandish is "an impudent plagiarism of William Faulkner's Sanctuary."

Thanks to George Orwell I am motivated to read Sanctuary very soon, (straight after Hangover Square). Then I'll try and find a copy of No Orchids For Miss Blandish.
Orwell held James Hadley Chase in high regard as a writer.

Sounds intriguing - I've read a few GR reviews of Sanctuary - and the book certainly divides readers.

I think I have read about 5 of them. I was intrigued in high school by one of his short stories, "Barn Burning". Then years later I got on a Faulkner jag and I was spending my commuting time reading him. (I kind of miss the daily 90 minutes devoted (for me) to reading. At that time it was always physical books because it was long before Kindle spoiled me for turning pages.

Now I am reading his geanddaughter/grand-neice's memoir, Every Day by the Sun: A Memoir of the Faulkners of Mississippi by Dean Faulkner Wells.

I also have his The Uncollected Stories of William Faulkner.

^ Thanks Jan.


What's your verdict?

Where should the beginner start?

What do you like about his writing? What are you less convinced by?

I'd start with short stories. They are easier to understand. Other than that, probably As I Lay Dying.

At the time I felt like my brain was turning to mush and I needed to read something more complicated than a simple mystery. So I started reading Faulkner and doing crossword puzzles. At that time I was working at a job below my education level. So I needed to exercise my brain. And Faulkner definitely does that.

In one of his books, possibly Sanctuary, i think, everything is seen from the viewpoint of one character who is in some way mentally handicapped. It was almost as frustrating a read as Ulysses, and just as rewarding. And I really liked Ulysses, once I had read it.

As far as I can remember, Faulkner never fell short for me. I wouldn't mind rereading one of his books if they were nominated for a group reading.

I really liked "As I Lay Dying", Faulkner uses the stream-of-consciousness technique very effectively and does not overuse it.
I have not read "Sanctuary", but I may get around to it sometime and I would support the nomination.
The short stories are probably a good place to start. I usually suggest that someone starts reading Joyce with "Dubliners", if they don't like that they are unlikely to appreciate his more challenging stuff. (I think I have mentioned elsewhere that "Finnegans Wake" was a step too far for me, so I pretended it was music and listened to it on CD without trying to understand it.)

Val wrote: "I really liked "As I Lay Dying", Faulkner uses the stream-of-consciousness technique very effectively and does not overuse it.
I have not read "Sanctuary", but I may get around to it sometime and I..."

I would like to nominate Sanctuary for a Group Read or set up a Hot Read thread. Maybe nominate Sanctuary for July or August.
Some writers are easy and a joy to read, like Anthony Powell, with beautiful writing that has depth and insight as well as humour. Some writers are difficult, but writers like William Faulkner, (I've only read As I Lay Dying so far) do reward the effort. Often on rereading they aren't difficult once one's orientated to the outlay of the story. I've just finished Là-Bas by Joris-Karl Huysmans. Initially it seemed in disjointed segments at the start, as I was focussing on the story. I went hot and cold with it till about half way before I became aware of the depth of form and subject. Well worth rereading.

^ All very intriguing. Thanks Jan, Val and Greg.


My tolerance for stream-of-consciousness is limited.

Joyce is a bridge too far for me, although I can see the attraction of Val's suggestion..

Val wrote: ".."Finnegans Wake" ... I pretended it was music and listened to it on CD without trying to understand it."

^ That might work.

I've tried it with Ulysses - just reading the words without trying to understand them but I just got bored. Listening in a semi-dream state might be more fruitful?

Anyway, I digress. Given what I just said, this is encouraging

Val wrote: "Faulkner uses the stream-of-consciousness technique very effectively and does not overuse it."

So then Greg...

Greg wrote: "...writers like William Faulkner, (I've only read As I Lay Dying so far) do reward the effort"

..I'd be willing to give him a try albeit with some trepidation and a few reservations.

I might go with Jan and Val's suggestion of the short stories as a way of dipping my toe in the water first.

Let's digress again...

Greg wrote: "Some writers are easy and a joy to read, like Anthony Powell, with beautiful writing that has depth and insight as well as humour."

Oh yes! I couldn't agree more....

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Back to Sanctuary, it's a divisive book in terms of the some of these reviews...

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

Anyway, my library has plenty of Faulkner and most of it is on the shelves so easy for me to give him a try.

Nigeyb, 'challenging' or 'difficult' writers, as a term, I think is relative.
Sometimes it is the reader's preconceptions and prejudices that can get in the way. I found difficulty with Brighton Rock, (which isn't a 'difficult' book to understand) initially on reading it it REALLY bugged me. As I added to my review, on reflection after a few months, realising that the book stayed with me and I (begrudgingly) accepted its value. My initial grievance with it hasn't gone, but is now balanced with its merits.

Greg wrote: "Nigeyb, 'challenging' or 'difficult' writers, as a term, I think is relative. Sometimes it is the reader's preconceptions and prejudices can get in the way. "

I agree with that Greg.

That said, and specifically in relation to James Joyce, it's not through want of trying that I have never broken through with his more challenging works. I quite liked A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man and Dubliners but simply do not have the patience for Ulysses...

...all you really need is a clean, well-lit room, a copy of "Ulysses", Don Gifford's "Ulysses Annotated", Harry Blamires's "The New Bloomsday Book" for chapter summaries, Joseph Campbell for some colour commentary, and some spare time.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospe...

...I can see the attraction of getting so immersed but I read for pleasure, not because I'm doing a degree :-))

I also realise that there is great reward to be gained for those that do make the effort. I have listened to podcasts about the book's appeal and marvelled at the passion shown by various academics and experts.

I feel much the same way about what I've read by Virginia Woolf.

I think maybe I'm just too lazy.

Still, given what others have said, I suspect that William Faulkner could be a whole different kettle of fish, and - in any event - I will try to be open minded and patient if I find it challenging.

Thanks for the Brighton Rock update...

Greg wrote: "I found difficulty with Brighton Rock, (which isn't a 'difficult' book to understand) initially on reading it it REALLY bugged me. As I added to my review, on reflection after a few months, realising that the book stayed with me and I (begrudgingly) accepted its value. My initial grievance with it hasn't gone, but is now balanced with its merits. "

Brighton Rock is a personal favourite and I was quite surprised you didn't share my enthusiasm, so I am interested to read of your slight re-evaluation.

Anyway, here in a nutshell is what's great about GoodReads: the exchange of different perceptions and opinions, all of which are equally valid, and which help us to appreciate how others view the same piece of creative writing.

Vive la différence.

Intrigued to see this thread, Greg. I must admit I've never read any Faulkner, but he seems to be in the air for me at the moment. I've just seen the controversial pre-Code film 'The Story of Temple Drake' (made in 1933), which was based on Sanctuary, at the BFI in London, and I've also borrowed Soldiers' Pay from the library after noticing its First World War theme. So I'm another one who would be interested to give him a try.

Nearly finished reading Sanctuary. Really enjoying this. What an amazing writer. The tension builds slowly. The writing style still feels modern. There is a cinematic quality, as a scene is set up and then left, and changes to another place and characters who mention what happened after leaving the previous scene. Much more powerful than spelling it out in detail.

^ Thanks for the update Greg. That does indeed sound like a great read.

Glad you're enjoying it.

Here is a link which has an audio recording of William Faulkner reading from 'As I Lay Dying'. It is wonderful hearing Faulkner's voice and his Southern accent.

http://www.openculture.com/2014/04/vi...

Also, there is a lot to interest Faulkner fans on the William Faulkner author Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/WilliamFaulk...

Sorry to pop in so late, and maybe it's moot, but I'd very highly recommend starting a Faulkner exploration with the short novel The Unvanquished. I think it's a good litmus test for a reader since it's less experimental and more straightforward than Fury and Absalom, so you get the good bits of Faulkner in terms of style and characterization, etc., without the WTF-ness that sometimes will occur in his more challenging stuff. Also, in terms of continuity, it's a great place to start because it chronologically precedes most of the Yoknapatawpha fictions, taking place not during Reconstruction or the early XXth century but during (and just after) the Civil War, a time that's usually relegated to spoken-word legend in the Yoknapatawpha mythos. In a way, this is the "Creation Story" of the Sartoris Dynasty, the Olympians of the county. Much of the imagery from this book is burned into my mind: his art is really distilled and compressed here, whereas elsewhere it can sometimes sprawl and turn people away.

Another great way in is to pick up The Portable Faulkner from Penguin, a sort of curated anthology that was a major publishing event in its own right back in 1940-something. It remains a great selection; the organization and apparatus are a brilliant primer and roadmap for beginners, and veterans would be lying if they told you they don't constantly turn back to it.

(Full confession: I was and to a degree still am a Faulkner devotee. I became obsessed in college and grad school, studying under some bi-whig Faulkner scholars. I like to think it didn't ruin me but who knows.)

Finally, someone brought up Joyce, and I'd equally strongly recommend The Portable Joyce from the same line. It's got Dubliners and Portrait complete, as well as READABLE selections from both Ulysses and even the Wake, and poems and other odds and ends. Unless you're really determined to read his latter two magnum opuses in their entirety (which is actually worth it!! I swear!!!), this one volume contains everything in it that you'll ever need Joyce-wise, truly.

Again, sorry to be tardy to the thread, or if I wandered off unhelpfully.

I found that all very interesting, informed, erudite and helpful. Thanks. And quite possibly the nudge some of us need to dip our toes into Faulkner Lake.

I recently read A Rose for Emily for my English course. I really enjoyed it and it was the push I needed to get into his stuff. But I have to say it was such a nuance writing a paper on it because of the structure. XD

Nigeyb wrote: "I found that all very interesting, informed, erudite and helpful. Thanks. And quite possibly the nudge some of us need to dip our toes into Faulkner Lake."

My pleasure! Other Faulkner pieces that balance brevity, rigor of style and readability are "Barn Burning" and "The Tall Men"; particularly the former gives a great dose of some of his best prose and how he depicts time/space and motion.

Jeremy wrote: "Nigeyb wrote: "I found that all very interesting, informed, erudite and helpful. Thanks. And quite possibly the nudge some of us need to dip our toes into Faulkner Lake."

My pleasure! Other Faulk..."

I've always remembered Barn Burning from reading it in high school. It was included in an anthology edited by Robert Penn Warren, another of my favorites.

I have started a Hot book/small group read thread for William Faulkner's Collected Stories

900 pages
forty-two stories
divided into six sections
I. The Country
II. The Village
III. The Wilderness
IV. The Wasteland
V. The Middle Ground
VI. Beyond
(I'll list the individual stories soon) each story is around sixteen to twenty pages in length.
The book has no Introduction, the back cover synopsis says it all for what is in store.

'In this extraordinary collection, Faulkner captures the bitter tensions of America's Deep South. Beneath an unrelenting sun, the themes of pride, intense passion, the overbearing influence of women and the spectres of the past are played out in stories of memorable power. Faulkner's muscular, vivid prose lays bare the anguish of a land riven by violence and racial conflict, and the pathos, dignity and troubled history of its people.'

'If you imagine Huckleberry Finn living in the House of Usher and telling stories while the walls crumble about him, that will give you the double quality of Faulkner's work at its best.'

Dear Greg - I am with you all the way ! I will give you all the support ad knowledge I can . I have access to all here at Ole Miss and his home if Rowan Oak . I knew his niece Dean Faulker Wells before she died suddenly after the release of her memoir Everyday By the Sun : My Life and Time Spent with William Faulker and the Family . The book was beautiful . On the night of Deanie's funeral , I went sadly to the grave of Faulkner , who was buried next to his wife Estelle and in the back side was his funny stepdaughter Coco . I sat there in the dark of the night under a beautiful oak and had a lovely bottle of merlot . Don't worry I did not drive. This is when I lived a block away from the cemetery where most of my relatives were buried too. I talked to Deannie like se was still alive and asked her questions that I never had trouble char to ask and have answered . She called her Uncle , Pappy . She adored him and raised her as his own . Since I read that book ,Pappy became more real to me . After you read more of his work you like and learn the hard time he had writing you will know what I mean .
Dawn

Thanks Dawn, now that you mention Ole Miss and Faulkner, this jogs the memory to recommend an incredible piece of eye-witness on the spot experience investigative journalism of the Civil Rights era and the riots at Ole Miss. We Shall Overcome: A reporter's eye-witness account of the year of racial strife and triumph by Michael Dorman.
Faulkner's brother, from memory was in the National Guard at the campus.

Dawn wrote: "Dear Greg - I am with you all the way ! I will give you all the support ad knowledge I can . I have access to all here at Ole Miss and his home if Rowan Oak . I knew his niece Dean Faulker Wells be..."

I am still reading her book. It is very enjoyable.

Greg- the night of the fight with glass bottles thrown on campus back and forth to protest the entrance of the first black American, James Meredith entering the following day was terrible . It also put Faulkner brother John against Faulkner Cousin Shooky as he was called against each other . The story is told that John was prat of the crowd against and Shooky was a member of the national guard holding the peace . Only John lost his temper and would not heed Shooky's warning and Shooky was ordered to stand down . Shooky ended up with a broken arm . Two people died that night. An innocent bystander was caught in the crossfire of bottles being thrown and was hit in the head. Another fatality was a French Journalist who had come to report on the national event . He was shot and killed by a stray bullet .

Tragically that night left shattered glass everywhere and caused nothing but hard feelings . It served no purpose. It is said that Meridith was brought to campus under heavy guard the next day after traveling through a series of underground tunnels left over from the war to reach his destination to enter the Lyceum to register.

My Daddy was in the Air Force and I was just a baby when this happened . My Mama told me that we came home to visit that evening of the glass fighting and there were road blocks everywhere looking for people who were up to no good . Daddy said it took forever to get to my Grandmother's house . The National Guard and law were everywhere as well as glass .

On campus now, we have a lovely bronze statue of James Meredith in front of the Lyceum walking under an arch ! I will take some pictures of the campus . We also have a bench in front of the Journalism Building dedicated to the French Journalist who lost his life . I have met Mr. Meredith many times and I have heard him speak . He is always at the football games too! He is so funny and has a nice smile ! He has written so many good books . Our University has come so far and so has our state as far as civil rights issues , but this whole state is so very poor no matter . It is so sad.

The website I was trying to refer you to for all things about Faulkner and his style of writing and his work is under : Strunk and E. B. White and the Elements of Style ! I also have many notes and maps of the lovely make believe Yoknapatawphna County too ! I can also send pictures of his gravesite and his beautiful home of Rowen Oak ! His Writing is difficult to get used to reading but I think it is worthwhile . It is home and Mississippi to me . Let me know if you need or want for anything !

I'm giving it up with 'Collected Stories' after having read 'Red Leaves', which is about some Indians discussing whether to eat their Negro slaves. This is too much for me I'm afraid.
We were warned from the back cover synopsis -
'In this extraordinary collection, Faulkner captures the bitter tensions of America's Deep South. - - Faulkner's muscular, vivid prose lays bare the anguish of the land riven with violence and racial conflict, and the pathos, dignity and troubled history of its people.'
'If you imagine Huckleberry Finn living in the House of Usher and telling stories while the walls crumble about him, that will give you the double quality of Faulkner's work at its best.'

All the stories are mostly unrelentingly depressing with no hint of joy or happiness, but that last one decided it for me. The stories are all different, but all the same in a way. I found it hard going with so much talking about 'niggers' a lot of the time. I think the writing is different to Faulkner's novels, which are more demanding and have a cinematic structure which I like. I love the novels I've read so far and will not be discouraged from reading others.

I stopped reading at page 343.