Ask Susan Shell discussion

Odyssey workshop for Science Fiction, Fantasy and Horror writers is about to start its 19th year this summer. I'm asking friends and other writers, many of whose work you've read, to speak of their experiences at either Odyssey or Clarion, and how that experience helped them in their career. Or perhaps discouraged them? For me, Odyssey under the tutelage of our fearless leader, Jeanne Cavelos, former editor at Dell, was one of the greatest experiences of my lifetime. I formed many friendships there, and it definitely helped me to improve my novel, Singer of Norgondy, that I started writing during the first Odyssey in 1996. Anyone who has experiences at similar workshops or who would like to ask questions to those of us who've attended writing workshops are welcome to comment.

Susan Shell Winston

If you go to Odyssey expecting nothing but praise, accolades, and recommendations to editors at major publishers, then you'll be disappointed. No one escapes Odyssey without some brutally honest feedback. You will be challenged to grow as a writer, no matter how talented you already are.

If you go, be prepared to meet people who are extremely ambitious, talented, and serious about their writing--just like you. Fortunately, writers seem to be among the most good-natured and supportive creative types. The competitive atmosphere is there, but I found it to be a help rather than a hindrance, pushing me to write better, faster, and to try new methods.

Since there are only 16 students in every annual class, I understand that each year has a different dynamic. Some years seem to be more friendly, others more prolific, others more multi-cultural, or skewed younger/older, or more published, or skewed towards screenwriting, or award-winners, etc. This is just a general factor rather than something for you to worry over. Odyssey also provides an ongoing supportive program for all graduates, bringing them together regularly, and keeping in touch through a mailing list and gatherings at conventions. The roster grows annually by 16 new graduates.

Hello Abby!
I know you've been writing an excellent Science fiction series on the Torth Empire. You workshopped many of the chapters during Odyssey and tneo's. (the never ending odyssey workshop for grads that's even more intensive than Odyssey). Did you start the series at Odyssey, or before? How did it change your ideas about it?

Susan

I graduated from Odyssey in 2008. I tell people that Odyssey took me from being a talented amateur to "semi-pro." Not only did Odyssey improve my writing tremendously, it gave me the critical skills necessary to improve my writing continuously into the foreseeable future. It was a direct result of Odyssey that, three years later, I won the Writers of the Future award.

Being there is a "bonding" experience, where the writers live in a dorm-like setting, complete immersion. It is very dynamic and encouragement/stimulation is everywhere. Writing is a lonely business, people are constantly rejecting you, telling you your work isn't good enough, and wondering why you're wasting your time on something that doesn't pay. Support and encouragement is absolutely necessary in the beginning stages.

The format, as I recall, was that we met in the morning for a two-hour lecture on the craft of writing. After that we critiqued each other's stories for another two hours or so. The afternoon was spent writing our own work. We got tons of feedback from our peers and also from Jeanne Cavelos, the director. The guest lecturer were all stupendous; we had James Maxey, Craig Shaw Gardner, Nancy Kress, Barry Longyear, Jenny Rappaport (agent), just off the top of my head. No one, neither student nor faculty, copped an attitude.

Because there is one lead teacher, Jeanne, there was a logical progression and coherence to the lectures, with the guests bringing in differing perspectives. It was a well rounded education for people already having some talent.

I could go on and on. The campus was beautiful; Manchester lovely and not too distracting. (Imagine trying to do this in Vegas...not!) If I could, I'd go back tomorrow.

-Scott T. Barnes

Scott, you started New Myths magazine. Were you planning to before you went to Odyssey? I'm curious how and why you got started?

Susan

Susan,

Interesting question. I had done a lot of thinking before Odyssey about how a writer could gain an audience before he/she publishes his first book. There are not many ways to do so, and what the author picks must fit his personality. For example, blogging just isn't in my nature. Writing short stories is a good way, but that doesn't leave much time for writing a book...

In the process of writing short stories to try to get into Odyssey, and trying to sell those short stories, I also became aware that there are not many places beginning writers can sell their work and actually get paid. There are the big magazines, Analog, Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, Asimov's, Orson Scott Card's magazine, and so forth, but they publish stories mostly from established writers. And then there exist a whole slew of magazines which don't pay a thing, and a lot of contests which charge money to consider stories--turning the slush pile into a money making machine. I wanted my magazine to help fill the gap.

By the way, trivia, some friends (notable Rick Fowler, a contractor and champion of wounded vet's rights) came up with the name New Myths and its tag line--Life from a side view mirror, on the return trip from Lake Mead to San Diego after my bachelor's party.

I do have some worries about New Myths taking subscribers from pay magazines, since the readers can get good quality content for free with New Myths, but I can't see any way around that. Hopefully any negative impact there is minimal.

Odyssey gave me the confidence to go ahead and start New Myths just after graduation. It's been going strong for six years or so.

-Scott

I attended Odyssey in 2012. Incredible classmates. Amazing experience. Learned a lot.

Over the weekend I was at the Nebula Awards and sat in on a panel about writing workshops. It was a great panel, but none of the panelists had been to Odyssey, so the info was a little light. I thought I'd cover some of the info the panelists missed here . . .

Odyssey is a 6 week workshop, like Clarion/Clarion West. The main difference is that Jeanne Cavelos teaches five of the six weeks at Odyssey. Week five is covered by the writer in residence, and a guest lecturer comes in for one day of the other weeks. Like Clarion, students submit a story per week for critique and have private one-on-one meetings with Jeanne and the instructors. The workshop is held at St. Anselm's College near Manchester, NH, and students stay in the dorms on campus. One of the greatest things about Odyssey (in my opinion) comes after Odyssey. There is the two week TNEO (The Never Ending Odyssey) that takes place following the 6 week workshop, and is open to graduates of the original workshop. There is an active on-line discussion group for all graduates with Topics of the Week, etc. There are on-line writing courses. And Jeanne has recently started a weekly video chat/writing salon for graduates. So it's an amazing workshop and leads to becoming part of a great on-going Odyssey community.

I was mostly just rambling as I wrote the above, so I'm sure I haven't covered everything, and probably repeated things Susan, Abby, and Scott already wrote about. For the most part, I just wanted to cover things missed at the Nebula panel.

Hope this is helpful.

Excellent question, Susan.

>> Did you start the series at Odyssey, or before? How did it change your ideas about it?

I wrote the original drafts of Book 1 and Book 2 before I'd ever heard of Odyssey, and before I learned proper grammar. I just wanted to tell a good story. Despite excited beta reader reactions, my amateur manuscript gathered a solid wall of rejections from agents and publishers. So I went to Odyssey in hopes of networking enough to get my manuscript read.

During Odyssey, I learned so much, I added two new goals. I would: a) scrap those novel drafts and do a complete rewrite from scratch, and b) hone my short story craft and aim for at least one pro sale, since that credit might catch a literary agent's attention.

It took a few years, but I've accomplished both those goals. Sadly, I'm still working towards my original goal of getting a literary agent or major publisher to read the manuscript of Book 1 (the rewritten 2x version). This ongoing quest has led me to found novelist groups, complete additional novels in my series, and gain a lot more practice at storytelling and writing. At this point in my life, I feel capable of either accomplishing what I set out to do, or indie publishing a complete six-book series that will appeal to a broad range of readers.

Abby,
I had a similar inspiration. Once Odyssey taught me how to critique manuscripts I was able to found a critique group that is still going strong. Every one of the long-term members had been published professionally since joining, so there is no question that the techniques Jeanne taught for seeing flaws and ways to improve manuscripts directly led to publication. Another Odyssey grad, Nu Yang, is one of the members.

-Scott

Odyssey is an incredible experience. All the things above are true, and after you graduate you can still participate every summer in The Never Ending Odyssey (TNEO). It's a week-long gathering for Odyssey grads that builds on what you've learned. And very important, you maintain contact with your network of writers. The additional and ongoing support is terrific. I can't speak highly enough of Odyssey and TNEO.