Reading the Chunksters discussion

This section was interesting, we see Gwynplaine as the golden goose, the ominous wapentake, and the evolution of Gwynplaine and Dea's innocent, love, with new competing attention from the Duchess!

How do you think the move to London has imperiled our forged family? The twin claws, as Ursus puts it, of the police and the justices, seem to be ominous, but then fade. Why?


How would you characterize the Gwynplaine/Dea relationship at this point? Do you think the Duchess puts it at risk?

I thought the chapter when Ursus was interrogated by the three doctors was hilarious. What do you think the objective of such questioning was? Was a sentence of death really meted out so easily?

The wapentake - what a strange and mysterious creature! What do you think he/she/it wants with gwynplaine??

Dianne wrote: "This section was interesting, we see Gwynplaine as the golden goose, the ominous wapentake, and the evolution of Gwynplaine and Dea's innocent, love, with new competing attention from the Duchess! ..."
Hi Danne, I'm just getting started with this section, so more later! You seemed so lonely in here, had to add something! I've been sidetracked by "How the Scots Invented the Modern World", recommended by a goodreads friend. It is fascinating. And besides, who knew? Well, other than the author and readers here on goodreads.

First of all, hi! and thanks!!

Secondly, I had NO idea scots invented the modern world either! Fascinating! Is your GR friend a Scot, by chance? I'll take a look at the book.

Thirdly, ah, yes, I am alone. Utterly alone. But aren't we all in this world, ultimately, just sitting around waiting for the wapentake to show up and take us away (you may need to read this section to get the reference). Oh I fear I am getting overdramatic. Clearly I have been reading too much Hugo!

Never fear friends, I suspect that there are those among us who are reading and will catch up and post in due time. It's worth it, it's a great book!

Dianne wrote: "First of all, hi! and thanks!!

Secondly, I had NO idea scots invented the modern world either! Fascinating! Is your GR friend a Scot, by chance? I'll take a look at the book.

Thirdly, ah, yes, I..."
I finished this week's reading. And that final sentence of Book the Fourth? There was NOTHING in this world going to keep me from turning to Chapter 1 of Book the Fifth!
I LOVED the interrogation: probably a demonstration of just how brilliant Hugo writes!
I don't remember who here recommended the "Scots" book, I think I saw a friend's review but can't remember who.
We all, thankfully, have a room of our own these days (I just read a Virgina Woolf) to hide out from the wapentakes.

Oh, and this quote just blew me away:
England "is reverting at the present moment, thus giving to the world the strange spectacle of a great people, which, in its desire to take the better part, chooses the worse, and which, having before it the past on one side and the progress on the other, mistakes its way, and takes night for day."

Oh dear, I was dragging behind already with this book and then my Kindle broke! I hope to get back to it once I get a replacement, but you will all be long finished by that stage. Ah well ... I hope that you're all enjoying it!

Things are sad here as my father-in-law died on Tuesday. Funeral tomorrow.

Hilary wrote: "Things are sad here as my father-in-law died on Tuesday. Funeral tomorrow."

Hilary I am so so sorry to hear that. Our thoughts and warm wishes are with you. We are here if you need to lean on us :)

Och thank you so much, Dianne! That is so kind of you! You are such a lovely compassionate group of people here in GR! Thank again! :-)

Hilary, it is so clear, just based on your genuine kindness and good heart that you are a true gift to others and a positive influence on this world. I haven't even met you and I can see this!! You will be a tremendous support to your family during this tough time. Thanks to you for always being such a bright light to others!

Oh my word, Dianne, you are way too kind! Honestly! I can't begin to tell you what that means to me.

:) you deserve all happiness my dear

Hilary wrote: "Things are sad here as my father-in-law died on Tuesday. Funeral tomorrow."
Hi Hilary, just a note to say I'm thinking of you and your family.

Dianne wrote: "This section was interesting, we see Gwynplaine as the golden goose, the ominous wapentake, and the evolution of Gwynplaine and Dea's innocent, love, with new competing attention from the Duchess! ..."
Dianne, confession time: Once I reached page 400 or so I just couldn't put the book down. Absolutely fabulous!!! Can't wait to talk about the conclusion. My computer is going in for repair as I spend Christmas with the family, I may not be in touch until after the holidays.

To all: I had to read ahead, as by page 400 I couldn't stop. Looking forward to a discussion of the grand finale after the first of the years.
So, to all: if you're traveling, be safe and (as I always say to myself) let's try our best to simply be kind as the world today needs this very much.

Greg wrote: "To all: I had to read ahead, as by page 400 I couldn't stop. Looking forward to a discussion of the grand finale after the first of the years.
So, to all: if you're traveling, be safe and (as I alw..."

thanks for letting us know greg and happiest of holidays to you and your family as well! The suspense is killing me at this point in the book, so I suspect I will finish this weekend! I'll post the threads up early so you all can get started posted whenever you would like, and have a computer!

Finally caught up with this section...
Craziness at work and the holidays have cut into reading time.

I am honestly terrified for Gwynplaine being "arrested". My initial thought is they found the note from the duchess to him and that was the reason he was being dragged away, but I'm not so sure now.

And I feel bad for Dea...all of a sudden he's enamoured of someone else even though he loves her and she completely unaware of everything.

Thank you

Oops, my message has disappeared into the ether. I shall be brief. Please, everyone, do have a wonderful Christmas! May joy be unconfined!

Book III
The Duchess
I heard your words clearly, Greg, you can't put this book down after a certain point. To think I thought some sort of ailment was going to halt the relationship between Gwynplaine and Dea; but no, it could quite possibly be another woman...The Duchess? So, yes, I do think it's possible this woman will have the ability to throw a wrench in Gwyn's relationship since he's titillated beyond all measure and actually thinking about sex now, quite literally. For his own sake, I hope he has some relief, but again, at what cost... As sweet and pure as his relationship with Dea is, it has to be a little/a lot uncomfortable for Gwyn, to a certain extent? However, did anybody find the Duchess' letter asinine? Which is exactly what Hugo probably meant for it to be considering the social circumstances and what we as readers have already been made privy to...
You are hideous; I am beautiful. You are a player; I am a duchess. I am the highest; you are the lowest. I desire you! I love you! Come!(370)
What a jerk, this Duchess.

The Wapentake
I do not know what to make of this. At first I thought it was in reference to the weapon, but it's the person who I thought was like a policeman type figure... Hugo made him out to be monstrous, however. Could the Wapentake have evolved into the modern day Bobby...Baton/iron rod? IDK.

Book IV

Temptation of Gwynplaine
Such the prominent picture of devil and angel, or light and dark, sitting on either shoulder of Gwynplaine as he deliberates between his love for Dea and lust of the Duchess. Luckily, the star crossed alchemy prevails.

From Gay to Grave
This quote on page 379, Hugo writes of Dea saying to Gwynplaine, I dreamt that we were animals and had wings, made me think about more foreshadowing in regards to the fate for those two. Hugo thus far, likes Dea to an angel, ethereal, not of the Earth; and when the Duchess enters, Dea's complete opposite, somebody who could not woo Gwynplaine away...I am continuously propelled to read further. This book does not disappoint.

In this section, I was also reminded of Ursus and what it must be like for him to be witness to the love between Dea and Gwyn. One would think through his gruff tone Ursus was drowning in sapp, but it seems he's more afraid for their happiness with one another because there's always the potential for an evil eye, a hater of someone else's success and joy, whose gaze would thwart the relationship. Ursus even says, Oh, you're happy, are you? God measures the greatness of happy (390). Ursus in tuned to the mystical, I do think there may be some significance of it here...He seems to adhere to the rationale, "Do not celebrate anything, they will take it away."

Shuddering
In "Shuddering," I was brought back to the pages consisting of the hooker...The use of light and dark nuances and their relation to life and death. The Plight of the hooker and the ocean as a living and breathing entity...As Gwynplaine begins his journey into the chasm of uncertainty, Hugo writes,

It seemed to him that the door which had just closed was the communication between light and darkness-opening on one side on living, human crowd, and on the other on a dead world; and now that everything illumined by the sun was behind him, that he had stepped over the boundary of life and was standing without it, his heart contracted(399).

Like the hooker, Gwynplaine makes his way moving in the dark, overwhelmed by the unknown and similar to the duress of the hooker's inhabitants, Hugo writes of Gwynplaine,

The whole night had been passed in a kind of delirium, and the fever was still on him... Since the previous evening all kinds of incidents assailed him. The emotions which had tormented had sustained him. Without the storm a sail would be a rag. But his was the excessive feebleness of the rag, which the wind inflates till it tears it.

The ship we know "did" sink, but now Gwynplaine too is sinking in his own way (400).

Lamentation
As I mention in the previous section how Hugo gave the ocean living and breathing qualities, I find that moment translates here as well as he is now giving this penal chasm a life of its own, likening the twisted passages to torturous entrails; those of a prison as well as those of a man...The slabs that paved the corridor were clammy as an intestine (401-02).

Gwynplaine is led further in what looks to be a descent leading to a torture chamber, where a man can be seen chained in the most horrible position of being quartered (404). What is Gwynplaine doing here, and who is this naked man lying in the center of it all? The connection from ship to torture chamber seems so evident, I do wonder if the last few inquiries of the doctor with a conscience have any significance here?

On his descent down the steps, Hugo writes, Gwynplaine felt an indescribable extinction of hope. There was death in each step. In each one that he descended there died a ray of the light within him...This was such a taxing scene for me to read as Hugo juxtaposes between the diminishing hope in Gwynplaine compared to the next to extinguished light in the larva lying chained to the four pillars still rattled in its throat(406)-Very taxing, to say the least.

Many of you have mentioned the cliffhangers in each chapter, but this one takes the cake as the larva has identified an unassuming Gwynplaine and the sheriff announces, I have before me, Lord Fermain Clancharlie, Baron Clancharlie and Hunkersville, Marquis of Corleone in Sicily, and a peer of England; the sheriff then gets up out of his seat offering it to Gwynplaine saying, My lord, will your lordship deign to seat yourself(413)? Agh, this was "so" good! Great writing!

WOW, that ending of book the fourth was a shocker.

Gwynplaine has Dea on a pedestal. She is like an angel. He does not want to make her earthly by having sexual relations with her. As a man, Gwynplaine does desire to be with a woman in that way, but he does not want it to be Dea.

Then there's that bombshell Duchess. What a love letter she wrote him hahaha.
"You are hideous; I am beautiful. You are a player; I am a duchess. I am the highest; you are the lowest. I desire you! I love you! come!"

Now that Gwynplaine is finding out about his bloodline I wonder how he is going to react to the Duchess. This revelation will change everything.