Science Fiction & Fantasy Award Winning Book Group discussion

Hey everyone. This is for discussion of February’s group book:
The Man In The High Castle by Philip K. Dick.
This won the 1963 Hugo award.

Unless it’s a very general comment make sure you use spoiler code.
< spoiler>Comment< /spoiler> Without the spaces.

So the first group reads start tomorrow.
There's 15 chapters so the simplest way to read it would be a chapter a day; possibly 2 chapters a day on the weekends.

I'm joining the read-along on this one (I already own the book in hardcover, so I got no excuses not to join, lol), but I probably wont have time to read it until maybe late next week. But you guys can start without me, I can probably catch up.

I'm also thinking about checking out the TV-series. Anyone else doing that?

Chapter One.

(view spoiler)[Introduction to two of the American characters. R. Childan and Frank Frink (what a name). Learn first little bits of information about this world. Curious to find out how the US and rest of the world has been shared between the now victorious Axis powers.

Curious to see what the Nazi occupied parts of the US are like; far darker and a living hell to live in by the sound of it. Not much to say really at this early point (hide spoiler)]

Linnea, don't feel pressurized to force yourself to catch up. The spoiler code should avoid ruining any surprises for anyone.

Regarding the TV series, I was definitely curious when first hearing about it but was determined to read the book first. Also it's a Amazon exclusive and I don't like Amazon so can't think how to watch it at the moment.

Chapter Two

(view spoiler)[So World War 2 was won by the Axis powers but barely. They've now started to colonise the rest of the solar system and leave orders behind on how the Earth is to be run. I assume this is due to the Nazi party having access to atomic weapons and the energy generating principles behind it all. I'm inferring this just by the mention of vaporising an ocean via atomic power for farming land.

What this could mean for the way other countries are run will be interesting to see. The Nazi ruled side of the US will be dark and brutal I imagine considering what's been hinted at so far. (hide spoiler)]

Definitely an interesting setting so far. I also need to look into the I-Ching which would prove handy.

Chapter Three.

(view spoiler)[
So we finally see a little bit of the darker side of the Japanese occupation. Julianna has gone through a traumatic event(s) of some kind and is using learning of a martial arts to cope, partially anyway at least.

The Mr Baynes character just got a interesting little twist in the form of his hidden nationality. He's very sure of his ability to be accepted and goes as far as to threaten the random stranger Loetz to make a point; far more for his own mind than any other.
(hide spoiler)]

Just finished Chapter 3. Not much to add to what Joe has already said. This is the second PKD novel that I've read and so far I like it better than Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?.
We'll see how that holds up.

I'd like to watch the Amazon adaptation, but first I want to watch The Expanse.

Still waiting for my copy of Ammonite to show up so I haven't started that one yet.

Chapter Four.

(view spoiler)[
This is definitely the most normal everyday chapter so far. This could of been any book where forgery and deceit come into play. I'm curious to see who the dishonest person is who played Childan and made him aware of the fakes.

I assume there's a bigger picture that will be starting rather soon, though PKD does have his own unique way of doing everything.
(hide spoiler)]

I've read through chapter eight. Here are just a few of my thoughts.

(view spoiler)[It was interesting that Mr Baynes traveled via rocket, not airplane. Juliana Frink mentions rockets going overhead, but not airplanes. It was also said that the Germans had set off to conquer the solar system right after the war. I just think it's funny because we haven't been to the moon since 1972.

I wonder what happened to the Germans in Africa. It's been mentioned several times that their "project" didn't quite succeed. It's obvious what the "project" was, but what ultimately happened?

The irony of Robert Childan thinking, "I do not belong here. On this land that white men cleared and built one of their finest cities. I am an outsider in my own country."

History is written by the victors. The British and Americans are prosecuted for war crimes. Karl Reiss is upset at a scene in "The Grasshopper Lies Heavy" where Hitler is on trial for war crimes. (hide spoiler)]

Chapters Five & Six

(view spoiler)[
So we finally learn a little about the book title. Not enough to say who and what the man in the high castle really is and means to the overall story but it's an interesting start.

I'm curious what all the fake American artifacts will mean in the later storyline. Will it be used to bring in both sides at cross purposes or some other, currently not hinted at, one.
(hide spoiler)]

Chapter Seven.

(view spoiler)[
Childan has a social dinner and evening with the young Japanese couple which was really quite interesting. He's emphasizing with the Nazi viewpoint and he's completely unaware of this and how it affects others around him. He's quite forward with his opinions of Jews for instance and the Japanese couple just can't believe a American would be this way.

So far one message seems to be that it doesn't matter what nationality you are, racism or other intolerant views do not follow these race lines and we shouldn't stereotype anyone and their views because of this.
(hide spoiler)]

Chapter Eight & Nine.

(view spoiler)[
We finally see the world from a German viewpoint. I found it very interesting and curious that he was reading "The Grasshopper Lies Heavy". He really got into it and got very emotionally invested. I'm eager to see where this ends up.

Chapter nine was revealing for Frank Frink as he was the Japanese gentleman's aide who told Childan about the fake stuff. Despite their former boss at the factory suspecting it could be them as the timing was rather convenient I still didn't expect it to be Frank.
(hide spoiler)]

I'm really starting to get into this more now.

Jon, I'm curious about that same thing (view spoiler)[Africa and Rommel have only been mentioned briefly and I'm curious why. Did the big alternative history event in this reality happen there maybe, or at least have significance. (hide spoiler)]

Finished it last night. I picked it up intending to only read a chapter or two and suddenly it was over.

(view spoiler)[Hopefully you're not reading unless you've finished.

Joe, yeah I'm a little disappointed. I would have enjoyed a little more of the alternative history stuff. What happened in Africa? Did the Germans do anything different to defeat Britain? V2 rockets? We didn't get any of that. Juliana Frink got a nice ending to her story line, but no one else did. What happened to Frank, Mr Baynes and Mr Tagomi?

I think James is right. Mostly this seemed to be about race/ethnicity/national identity. I started to think that each story thread had a main character that supposedly portrayed the important traits of their national identity. That fell apart though. I have to admit I'm not sure what PKD was trying to say, if indeed he was trying to say anything. I guess I was expecting an historical thriller type of novel and this is nothing like that.

At the halfway point I was sure that I was going to like this more than DADOES?. Nope, I don't think so. Maybe PKD isn't for me.

I did pull out my copy ofThe I Ching or Book of Changes after I finished. I tried to read it many years ago and put it down after 10 pages. It reads exactly as described in this book. Hahaha. (hide spoiler)]

I received my copy of Ammonite today. I'll probably start this week end or early next week.

Chapter 10 & 11

(view spoiler)[
Chapter 10 - Julianna and joe are now taking a road trip to visit the author of this rather controversial book. I’m very curious to see who they are and learn about the importance of this book. It’s stirring up so much emotions with everyone and seeing behdind the scenes finally will be good.

More information about the Reich and Goebbels who will now be the new man in charge. Where this will lead I wouldn’t like to guess but there’s less than 100 pages left so we’ll find out really soon.

Chapter 11 - Mr Baynes interaction with Paul regarding his new jewelry line was rather interesting. Is he overthinking things or are they as they appear to be, for now? This part of the storyline I’m curious to see where it goes.
(hide spoiler)]

Chapter 12 & 13

(view spoiler)[
Chapter 12 - So a action filled chapter was certainly interesting to see. Frank Frink getting arrested and told he’s going to get taken off to be interrogated by the Reich and a small shootout in the Japanese office building. I wasn’t surprised by who Mr Yatabe turned out to be; he was mentioned in an earlier chapter in a significant way so him being here was expected.

Chapter 13 - So Joe isn’t actually Joe, not a big surprise there. He’s been acting rather odd the whole time so him being on the side of the Reich and wanting to kill the author of this book I guessed something like this would happen. I didn’t expect him to get hurt, possibly fatally, and for Julianna to go off to the High Castle alone. I thought it’d be more intrigue with her attempting to deceive him back and lose him somehow.

(hide spoiler)]

Chapter 14 & 15

(view spoiler)[
Chapter 14 - A large part of this chapter I didn’t get the significance of. My Tagomi buying the silver piece of jewellery and then trying to force himself to have some form of, epiphany maybe, using it. Frank was released and immediately went back to the workshop to do what puts his mind at rest I suspect. This was an odd chapter I thought

Chapter 15 - Julianna meets Mr Abendsen finally and their conversation was not what I’d hoped for. I’m not sure what I expected to be honest but something greater somehow. It was almost saying it’s not what you think and in a lesser way.

(hide spoiler)]

End Thoughts

(view spoiler)[
I agree with you both on this, this just felt disjointed and meandering quite simply. He had some great ideas which he could of made into something truly remarkable but he just didn't put it together right.

I'd heard about him using the I Ching for plot decisions but also that this was highly exaggerated and he only used it once or twice. Which is accurate I wouldn't like to guess.
(hide spoiler)]

Joe wrote: "Chapter One.

Introduction to two of the American characters. R. Childan and Frank Frink (what a name). Learn first little bits of information about this world. Curious to find out how the US and r..."

Pretty much agree with you, Joe, on chapter one. I'm usually not interested in things relating to WWII, but I'm intrigued by the world-building so far (not really feeling the characters yet).

Joe wrote: "Chapter Two

So World War 2 was won by the Axis powers but barely. They've now started to colonise the rest of the solar system and leave orders behind on how the Earth is to be run. I assume this ..."

Ok, I've got two things to say regarding chapter two. The first thing is a bit nitpicky perhaps, but they mention a Swede named Mr Baynes several times, and I was slightly annoyed because "Baynes" is like the most un-swedish name ever (though possibly this is explained later in the book). We don't really use the letters a and y next to each other like that. And germans are referred to as "Herr" in the book, while Baynes is "Mister", but the word herr is actually a scandinavian thing as well. (A bit old-fashioned today, but not that strange to use in a 60's setting.) Anyway, that annoyed me.

Also (view spoiler)[ huge technological advances seem to have been made in this world, compared to what actually happened after WWII, such as the progress being made towards colonizing the solar system. If the axis powers had won WWII, would we have landed on Mars by now? I'm a bit sceptical, but it's not impossible I suppose. (hide spoiler)]

Joe wrote: "Chapter Three."

I liked the inner monologue Baynes had in the end of the chapter, but it sounded very much like the author speaking rather than the character. I also enjoyed the world-building in this chapter, it seems like Dick has put a lot of thought into what this kind of post-WWII world would be like when it comes to of race, nationality, religon etc.

And, in chapter 3, (view spoiler)[it was interesting when Baynes was talking about how he had changed his appearance to look less jewish. I thought it was a very contemporary idea. I mean changing our appearance (with or without medical procedure) is something we do today, because our society isn't exactly the most tolerant towards people looking "different". Though I suppose there were stuff like that going on at the time as well. (hide spoiler)]

Linnea,

I'm glad you pointed out the name issue with Mr Baynes and the 'Herr' as it's not something I knew about and definitely didn't pick up on.

Regarding Chapter 3, (view spoiler)[I noticed the appearance and thought it was curious how PKD had written about it and really made it feel current (hide spoiler)]

Joe wrote: "Chapter Four."

My first thought was that (view spoiler)[the man who visited Childan and spotted the fake, is the titular "man in the high castle" or is in some way connected to him. I don't really have anything to base this on, but it's the kind of move I wouldn't be surprised by, coming from Dick. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter five - so meta! I loved it!

Linnea wrote: "Joe wrote: "Chapter Four."

My first thought was that [spoilers removed]"

Nevermind, I was wrong, regarding what happened in chapter four. :P

Just finished chapter 7, and overall there are a lot of interesting ideas and philosophies being presented here, some of which may need a second read through to pick up on (it is Dick after all). But I'm not getting much of an actual plot yet. I'll read a chapter, and like it, but I never get a feeling of wanting to know what happens next.

Linnea,

I had/have the same issue with this. I liked the individual chapters but there was just a lack of story and momentum going forward.

I finally caught up and finished this book. I pretty much agree with you guys, there were interesting ideas here, but the good parts didn't quite make a good whole. But it was interesting to read a novel structured in a way I'm not used to, such as there not being one major plotline but rather several small ones, and there not being one major protagonist etc.

My favorite part was when (view spoiler)[Juliana figures out what Joe is up to. That chapter was quite intense and I really enjoyed it. (hide spoiler)]

I also recommend listening to the SFFAudio podcast episode on this book. They always do interesting in-depth discussion on Dick's works.

Linnea,

Kudos for finishing it! I was sure that you had decided to DNF it and I wouldn't have blamed you.

That was probably my favorite part of the book also. For a second I thought that the second half was going to turn everything around and that I was going to end up enjoying it. Nope, didn't happen.

Thanks for the podcast recommendation. I might go look that up and try to understand what people like about this book.