The Old Curiosity Club discussion

As it was in Dickens’s time, the local pub is the social center of our community. Come on in, shake the snow off your cloak, and warm your hands before the cheerful fire. Mine gracious Host and Hostess are delighted to welcome you. There’s plenty of room yet on the settle. The barmaid stands ready to pull you a pint of the best locally brewed beer or ale, there’s wine mulling on the hob it that suits your fancy, or if you prefer, there’s a fresh pot of tea just brewed. And if you’re hungry it will only take a moment to hot up a nice slice of steak and kidney pie or grill a nice chop and tomato slice.

Although it is not the season, I hope that a special congratulatory bowl of Smoking Bishop can be devised in order to toast our fine and inventive moderators.

Natalie wrote: "Although it is not the season, I hope that a special congratulatory bowl of Smoking Bishop can be devised in order to toast our fine and inventive moderators."

I'm sure Mine Host can oblige. And for this grand opening, all drinks are on the house!

What a wonderful idea, Natalie! And thank you, Everyman, for the drinks...I think I'll have a Cock-Tail referenced here in this article.

P.S. The banner and thumbnail combo...Well, it's divine. Together it's quite surreal.

Ami wrote: "What a wonderful idea, Natalie! And thank you, Everyman, for the drinks...I think I'll have a Cock-Tail referenced here in this article."

I'm so sorry the recipe for the Timber Doodle has been lost! It's a very Dickensian sounding concoction - reminds me of Polly Tootle from Dombey and Son.

Hello everyone,

I just came back from guitar practice - not mine, but my son's guitar practice, with me sitting next door enjoying Tess of the D'Urbervilles, probably the first time really this week that I was able to put my nose into a book -, and I must say, Chapeau for the "Dickens's Dream" decoration and the thumbnail! It's very stylish!

Best pub I have ever been in. Wonder if anyone here has the recipe for the Fish House Punch, made famous a few years ago in Philadelphia. General Washington imbibed and did not make an entry in his diary for two days. In the meantime, I shall have the wine and since I tend to be cold-blooded, will take the seat here by the door.

It's nice to see such a gathering of friends on this cold and blustery day! I shall pull up a chair next to the blazing fire and settle in with a mug of brew on the house. Thank you for the warm welcome!

I'm not actually a drinking man, but this is a reason to celebrate. Wine, red wine, please. A bottle to start.

Peter wrote: "I'm not actually a drinking man, but this is a reason to celebrate. Wine, red wine, please. A bottle to start."

Coming right up, sir!

The lad himself was partial to half a pint of sherry apparently! Extraordinary!

Well while you're all supping your various tipples, and warming your toes by the fire, I'll share the latest on the "apostrophe s" saga.

Today on the tube, I went through "St. James's Park" station, and was gratified to see it spelled such. The helpful announcer pronounced it "Saint Jamesez Park".



Now I don't know whether Charles Dickens ever went through that particular station, but the tube railway did start in 1863, 7 years before he died, so the oldest stations are Victorian. Presumably he was familiar with that way of punctuating.

Is it my round now? Pint of sherry anyone?

What kind of tea is it?

Is it this:



Or this:



they are the only kinds I've ever had. :-)

We have been here long enough by now that on the way home, please everyone, "Mind the gap!"

Kim wrote: "What kind of tea is it?

Is it this:

Or this:

they are the only kinds I've ever had. :-)"

Bite thy tongue, thou Tea Philistine.

My Irish grandmother taught me from the cradle up that "you canna make a good cup of tea by dipping a mouse up and down by its tail in a cup of hot water."

No, it's real black tea made from real tea leaves brewed in a classic Brown Betty teapot kept warm with a hedgehog cozy hand-knitted by the Landlady's charming 8 year old daughter.

Some of us have definitely been quaffing too long!

Everyman wrote: "kept warm with a hedgehog cozy hand-knitted by the Landlady's charming 8 year old daughter."

Oh. My Goodness! That is most adorable!

I confess that I brew my tea by dipping a mouse into a cup of microwaved water. lol! But that tea cozy may just change my mind! I think I must start looking for knitting patterns now! :)

(and yes, Tristram, I just used five exclamation points. I think that tea cozy deserved them. :)

Lynne wrote: "Some of us have definitely been quaffing too long!"

But it's a PARTY!!

(Sorry I can't find one with them on stage that you can understand the lyrics.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJJWV...

Linda wrote: "Everyman wrote: "kept warm with a hedgehog cozy hand-knitted by the Landlady's charming 8 year old daughter."

Oh. My Goodness! That is most adorable!

I confess that I brew my tea by dipping a mou..."

You know what I do Linda... I'll cut open the tea bag and pour it into my french press followed by hot water (dependent on what type of tea I'm drinking...Green Tea, not too hot). This process takes your tasting palate to a whole other level. Granted, there's nothing like loose leaf, but when you're in a pinch...You know? :P

Everyman, I mean no offense by my process. I grew up in a household where tea flows in our veins instead of blood...What I've written above would have my mother shaking her head and cursing me. LOL! :P

Aaargh Lynne! If I hear "Mind the gap!" one more time today I'll scream!

Er ... how come you're all talking about tea? I'm the only English one here - and I don't even like it ;)

Mary Lou wrote: "Ami wrote: "What a wonderful idea, Natalie! And thank you, Everyman, for the drinks...I think I'll have a Cock-Tail referenced here in this article."

I'm so sorry the recipe for the Timber Doodle ..."

Boy, you nor the article are wrong...That drink is lost! I can't even find a recipe? I'm so curious now...

I've been wanting to try Klein Constantia wine since reading:

"As, whenever the Reverend Septimus fell a-musing, his good mother took it to be an infallible sign that he ‘wanted support,’ the blooming old lady made all haste to the dining-room closet, to produce from it the support embodied in a glass of Constantia and a home-made biscuit"

in Edwin Drood. I'm not a wine drinker, but as Peter said, it's a celebration! When I finally come across a bottle, I will bring it here to the Three Jolly Bargemen and drink a toast to all of you.

Lynne wrote: "Best pub I have ever been in. Wonder if anyone here has the recipe for the Fish House Punch, made famous a few years ago in Philadelphia. General Washington imbibed and did not make an entry in his..."

Oh my...Lynne! Look what I have for you...Some Fish House Punch. It looks so yummy!

I think this needs to be our House drink. LOL!

Ami wrote: "You know what I do Linda... I'll cut open the tea bag and pour it into my french press followed by hot water "

You do realize that what is in a teabag is technically known as "dust," don't you?

I brew my tea loose-leaf a la Everyman.

When I was in London last, I noticed the signs for Earls Court and Earl's Court and how inconsistent they were. I asked a Brit at the hotel and he sniffed that the "tradition" was Earls Court without an apostrophe. The apostrophe was rare to see, however.

I have noticed that the tea bag is much more common than it once was in my beloved England although one can still find a nice loose-leaf at Tesco, so I think all is not yet lost.` The problem with the tea bag is that they are filled with dustings and sweepings although some of Twinging's loose-leaf pyramids have got a bit of body.

Re: Constantia, I forgot to mention that Austen recommends it as well, in Sense and Sensibility:

"My dear," said she, entering, "I have just recollected that I have some of the finest old Constantia wine in the house, that ever was tasted -- so I have brought a glass of it for your sister. My poor husband! how fond he was of it! Whenever he had a touch of his old cholicky gout, he said it did him more good than anything else in the world. Do take it to your sister."

"Dear ma'am," replied Elinor, smiling at the difference of the complaints for which it was recommended, "how good you are! But I have just left Marianne in bed, and, I hope, almost asleep; and as I think nothing will be of so much service to her as rest, if you will give me leave, I will drink the wine myself."

Mrs. Jennings, though regretting that she had not been five minutes earlier, was satisfied with the compromise; and Elinor, as she swallowed the chief of it, reflected that, though its good effects on a cholicky gout were at present of little importance to her, its healing powers on a disappointed heart might be as reasonably tried on herself as on her sister.

Mary Lou wrote: "Re: Constantia, I forgot to mention that Austen recommends it as well, in Sense and Sensibility:

"My dear," said she, entering, "I have just recollected that I have some of the finest old Constan..."

Great memory! Love it.

Natalie wrote: "I asked a Brit at the hotel and he sniffed that the "tradition" was Earls Court without an apostrophe."

ha! I can totally picture that. The sniffing. :)

Everyman wrote: "Ami wrote: "You know what I do Linda... I'll cut open the tea bag and pour it into my french press followed by hot water "

You do realize that what is in a teabag is technically known as "dust," d..."

Oh, I'm quite aware I'm just drinking "dirty water," Everyman! LOL! It doesn't happen too often...But "sometimes." :P

I LOVE our banner :)

Well, by golly, being a respectable and proud member of The Old Curiosity Club, I think it's high time that I start drinking tea the way it was meant - loose leaf in a pot cozied by a cute woodland creature.

Jean wrote: "I LOVE our banner :)"

Oh! When did that go up? I absolutely love it. :)

Ami wrote: "Lynne wrote: "Best pub I have ever been in. Wonder if anyone here has the recipe for the Fish House Punch, made famous a few years ago in Philadelphia. General Washington imbibed and did not make a..."

Ami, you are a gem! Please everyone go look at the recipe she found. And it uses TEA!!! Along with the rum, and peach brandy and.......

Linda wrote: "I confess that I brew my tea by dipping a mou..."

Linda -- like you, I'm a microwave using mouse dipper. And while five exclamation points seems excessive (even for that delightful tea cozy), at least you didn't use them all together after one sentence, which is a practice that should be punishable by flogging.

As to Jean's apostrophes, I remember being taught that if the word ended in an 's' one should just add the apostrophe with no additional 's'. But seeing this was no longer being done by many, I googled it, and some website told me that if the word would be pronounced with an '-es' sound at the end, one should add the 's' (e.g. "We're going to the Dickens's house"), but if it would end with a 'z' sound ("each of Dickens' novels"), the apostrophe alone will suffice. I have no idea if this is correct or not, but have been using it as a guideline for the past few months. Perhaps the teachers in the group can enlighten us.

(By the way... I still say "offen" (I was taught the 't' was silent), though I notice that "of-ten" has become the norm, which drives me nuts. When did this happen?!)

Lynne wrote: "Ami wrote: "Lynne wrote: "Best pub I have ever been in. Wonder if anyone here has the recipe for the Fish House Punch, made famous a few years ago in Philadelphia. General Washington imbibed and di..."

Yes... the Fish House Punch sounds yummy, despite the awful name. Too bad that isn't the recipe for a Timber Doodle.

Linda wrote: "Jean wrote: "I LOVE our banner :)"

Oh! When did that go up? I absolutely love it. :)"

kudos to Kim for that. It was a major challenge, but she persevered and triumphed.

Mary Lou wrote: "Perhaps the teachers in the group can enlighten us. "

I'm not sure it's enlightenment, but I am a devoted follower of Strunk and White, who say it must be Charles's. So I do.

Mary Lou wrote: "As to Jean's apostrophes, I remember being taught that if the word ended in an 's' one should just add the apostrophe with no additional 's'. But seeing this was no longer being done by many, I googled it, and some website told me that if the word would be pronounced with an '-es' sound at the end, one should add the 's'"

I did the same thing! I thought I was losing my mind seeing the extra 's' after an apostrophe, so then I had to google the rules. Now I seem to be hyper aware of it.

Another thing - when did the word 'hanged' become the thing rather than 'hung'. And 'fishes' instead of simply 'fish' used for both a single fish and plural.

And then I was helping my son format his research paper on a Word document and he noticed that I included two spaces after a period instead of just one. I guess that is not done any longer either, but it was the way I was taught in keyboarding class many many years ago and I can not break the habit.

Mary Lou wrote: "I remember being taught that if the word ended in an 's' one should just add the apostrophe with no additional 's' ..."

So was I! But in the last few years I've adapted, as I've realised it's not strictly correct.

We were talking earlier, elsewhere, about how the thread "Mr. Jaggers's Office" should be spelled, and this is what I posted then,

Hart's Rules for Compositors and Readers at the University Press, Oxford seems to be giving us the option, on the grounds of taste, or what it actually sounds like. Here's the first bit of the very long relevant section:

"Use 's for the possessive case in English names and surnames whenever possible i.e. in all monosyllables and disyllables, and in longer words accented on the penult, as

Charles's
Thomas's
Hicks's
Jones's

In longer names not accented on the penult 's is also preferable, though ' is here admissible e.g. Nicholas'.

Euphony may decided the addition or omission of 's. It is often omitted when the last syllable is pronounced -iz as in

Bridges'
Moses'

And it goes on to quote exceptions in poetry, classic works Scriptural works etc.

So since Jaggers is a short name, with its stress on the first syllable, but ending with the "iz" sound, I reckoned we could do what sounded best, and then Tristram discovered that Dickens himself used the preferred correct one, "Jaggers's".

With apologies to anyone who is a "s' " person, I am a "s's" person.

Old habits are truly, as Linda noted, hard to break.

Mary Lou wrote: "Lynne wrote: "Ami wrote: "Lynne wrote: "Best pub I have ever been in. Wonder if anyone here has the recipe for the Fish House Punch, made famous a few years ago in Philadelphia. General Washington ..."

While I could find no exact recipe, I did find that it supposedly was a concoction from the South (possibly) and the ingredients are cider, brandy, and ice. At the time of Dickens' visit to the US, brandy was starting to supplant rum in many drinks, so that makes sense. And as ice became more available, it was the "in" thing to use in drinks. So, I would say that you could start combining the brandy of choice with the cider of choice and call it a Timber Doodle!

Jean wrote: "We were talking earlier, elsewhere, about how the thread "Mr. Jaggers's Office" should be spelled, and this is what I posted then..."

Somehow I managed to miss all of that. Or perhaps I saw it and my brain automatically shut down, which is more likely, lol!

No - you're fine Mary Lou :) Things are getting a bit mixed up!

Peter wrote: "With apologies to anyone who is a "s' " person, I am a "s's" person.

Old habits are truly, as Linda noted, hard to break."

I'm with Mary Lou. If you say it with the extra 's' you add it. If you don't, you don't.

So, Peter, you like wine?

Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "Peter wrote: "With apologies to anyone who is a "s' " person, I am a "s's" person.

Old habits are truly, as Linda noted, hard to break."

I'm with Mary Lou. If you say it with the extra 's' you a..."

I have been known to raise a glass or two. After a few glasses it really doesn't matter to me whether an apostrophe goes before or after a word needing a possessive "s."

Peter wrote: "Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "Peter wrote: "With apologies to anyone who is a "s' " person, I am a "s's" person.

Old habits are truly, as Linda noted, hard to break."

I'm with Mary Lou. If you say i..."

LOL! Ohhh, I'm laughing in my hands (they are covering my face)...Funny!

Linda wrote: "And then I was helping my son format his research paper on a Word document and he noticed that I included two spaces after a period instead of just one. I guess that is not done any longer either, but it was the way I was taught in keyboarding class many many years ago and I can not break the habit. ."

Ditto. I would get red penciled by my typing teacher if I only put in one space.

Peter wrote: "I have been known to raise a glass or two.."

These Canadians. Boozers every one of them! [g]

Everyman wrote: "Peter wrote: "I have been known to raise a glass or two.."

These Canadians. Boozers every one of them! [g]"

Ssssshs. Our secret. :-).

Kim wrote: "s 's' 's" "s', one space, two spaces.......Why do I hang around with teachers?????!!!!!!"

There you go, Mary Lou. SIX exclamation points all in one sentence! ;)

Well, I think I've been hanging out at the old Three Jolly Bargemen long enough today. What a great day getting familiar with what I know will become one of my favorite hang outs.

I'm headed home to prepare myself a hot mug of mouse-dipped "tea", climb in bed, and crack open the cover of a good book. Good night, friends!

Oh, by the way. Would someone be so kind as to make sure that Peter makes it home safely? The last I saw he was ordering another bottle of red and trying to get the musicians to strike up a rendition of ‘The College Hornpipe’. I do think he was in the mood to kick up his heels!