Classics for Beginners discussion

This is where we can start discussing Ernest Hemingway's book,The Sun Also Rise.

Maybe it's just me but I was bored beyond words. I can't remember when I didn't care for a single person in a book.

"And with them was Brett."

It's a line that has stayed with me since I first read The Sun Also Rises a dozen or so years ago. In five monosyllabic words Hemingway accomplishes much. He focuses the camera squarely on her, we know she is someone important. She alone stands out from the group. We know, also, that Jake's interest perks up when she walks in, that she is someone personally important to him. And we know that she was with another group of men, not with Jake.

All from five monosyllabic words.

I've read the first few chapters and I'm intrigued.

BTW - wasn't Hemmingway a reporter? I'm trying to remember, though I'm not saying he's Jake as I think maybe there's a bit of him in Cohn as well.

swwords wrote: "I've read the first few chapters and I'm intrigued.

BTW - wasn't Hemmingway a reporter? I'm trying to remember, though I'm not saying he's Jake as I think maybe there's a bit of him in Cohn as well."

Wikipedia has a good article on The Sun Also Rises and identifies who the real-life people are that the characters were based on. A good companion piece to The Sun Also Rises is A Moveable Feast, Hemingway's memoir of his time struggling as a young writer in Paris just prior to publication of The Sun Also Rises. It's also a cafe by cafe, wine bottle by wine bottle description of people, conversations, and events with some truly memorable moments.

I've just started and I'm about 10% in. This is my first Hemingway novel.

I've heard a lot about Hemingway's sparse prose. What I hadn't expected was his wicked sense of humour. I'm finding the book very amusing thus far. Sadly my lunch break is over, so no more reading until tonight.

"She grinned and I saw why she made a point of not laughing. With her mouth closed she was a rather pretty girl". Ouch. Lol.

I'm a little over half way through now, enjoying his spare dialogue and descriptions of people and place. Having read other works, and most recently some Faulkner; I now know I prefer Hemingway's writing and his wicked sense of humor to few other authors. I have been following along in Michael Palin's Hemingway Adventure with pictures of where these works are written. I highly recommend that book.

I'm half way through now and am enjoying how the pace ambles along.

I'm a little late to the game but see everyone is reading this here. I have it to read so need to join in before the month is over :)

Some of the characters have referred to themselves as feeling 'tight' a few times. I'm struggling to work out what they mean by this. Any ideas?

Hi RitaSkitter, "tight" is old slang for being somewhat drunk. Maybe the same as today's "catching a buzz."

Sorry, mistyped your name.

Ah, that makes sense - thanks! I've never heard the term 'catching a buzz' before either. We call being drunk being 'pissed' here :)

RitaSkeeter wrote: "We call being drunk being 'pissed' here :)"

Good grief, around here that would mean you were angry

Just to to make it more confusing we do use it to mean that sometimes too - more usually 'pissed off' but sometimes just 'pissed'! It's very common slang for drunk here though.

I finished the book last night. This is the first Hemingway I have read, and I feel of two minds about it. I enjoyed the author's sense of humor and appreciated some of the themes of the book. However, there were times I found myself rolling my eyes at the endless drinking and repetitive boring dialogue, and I felt that the drinking/partying/passing out repeated far too many times between events that were actually interesting. And I despise Brett Ashley!

I decided to strike the middle ground and give this book 3 stars. I would like to read some other Hemingway novels before I decide how I feel about his writing overall.

Christine wrote: "I finished the book last night. This is the first Hemingway I have read, and I feel of two minds about it. I enjoyed the author's sense of humor and appreciated some of the themes of the book. H..."

Hi Christine, I completely agree with you. I think you may have enjoyed it more than I did. I was bored and I found that his writing style didn't allow you to get to know the charters, so I didn't care about any of them. All of the men LET Brett treat them horribly.

Arlene wrote: "Christine wrote: "I finished the book last night. This is the first Hemingway I have read, and I feel of two minds about it. I enjoyed the author's sense of humor and appreciated some of the them..."

I agree about difficulty getting to know the characters. The very few scenes where we got to hear some of Jake's internal thoughts were the most illuminating but those were sparse, and the description of Robert Cohn at the beginning shed a bit of light on him, but the other characters got nothing. I'm not sure what conclusions the reader is supposed to draw by the fact that all the characters are daily binge drinkers - that seemed to be the point that Hemingway drove home most effectively! ;-)

Reading all your comments I'm just throwing in my thoughts.

I thought, and I could be wrong about this, that the novel was about how if these characters found happiness or love it would still not be enough. I am assuming this because of the Jake-Brett storyline, they clearly loved each other but understood that it wouldn't be enough.

(BTW, the description of the bull fighting, I was on the edge of my seat.)

I think the Jake-Brett issue was Jake's war injury and that is why love would not be enough.

I wonder though if the war injury was the reason they continued to be in love - Brett seemed to lose interest in men pretty quickly after sleeping with them. I also wondered if Brett's professions of love for Jake were just her typical MO, and if she (consciously or not) manipulated all those men in a similar fashion in private. For Brett, I don't think anything or anyone would have been "enough".

Christine wrote: "Arlene wrote: "Christine wrote: "I finished the book last night. This is the first Hemingway I have read, and I feel of two minds about it. I enjoyed the author's sense of humor and appreciated s..."

Remember this is a portrait of what became known as"the Lost Generation"
The culture shock of men who have been in a war and now find themselves
Returning to daily life, but at night have to face again the horrors they were taking part in with nightmares and restlessness....they drink and lose theirselves in this listless behavior.

Dee wrote: "Christine wrote: "Arlene wrote: "Christine wrote: "I finished the book last night. This is the first Hemingway I have read, and I feel of two minds about it. I enjoyed the author's sense of humor..."

Yes, I understand that. I guess I just didn't find all the drinking and drunken behavior to make for particularly interesting reading! I gather that Hemingway's point was to infer all the inner turmoil the characters experienced rather than outlining it clearly? If so, I get it, but I just didn't enjoy it.

I thought the few scenes where the reader gets to hear some of Jake's internal dialogue were very interesting, and more illuminating than yet another play by play of which bars they went to and what drinks they ordered.

I totally agree with you Christine.

After thinking about it some more, I guess given the fact that this book uses a first person narrator, it makes sense that most of what we hear about is booze and seemingly mundane details. If the narrator is trying to move beyond his experiences in the war and is using alcohol to avoid those memories and feelings, then it makes sense we wouldn't hear much about it directly from the first person narrator. But I guess maybe Hemingway's style in this book is just not my taste! ;-)

ETA: Even though I didn't care for this book very much, I do think it earned the three stars I gave it just because I am still thinking about it several days later! :-)

Again I agree with you (except for the three stars). I was just bored, bored, bored.

Arlene wrote: "I think the Jake-Brett issue was Jake's war injury and that is why love would not be enough."

I would go along with this but wasn't it Brett who was always nervous when touched by Jake? It did confuse me that there seemed to be no hesitancy from Jake to walk to Brett, hold her but when he did she was the one who backed away and did so nervously. It was this dynamics that made me think this was much more complicated.


Dee wrote: "Remember this is a portrait of what became known as "the Lost Generation"."

Oh, that really came through for me. Somewhere near the end, and I can't remember the exact quote, Brett tells Jake that it's not necessary for him to drink so much. I thought that was a really poignant moment because, without too many words, it showed how much they understood and cared for each other.

This is also my first reading of a Hemingway book, I know I am way late to the party but I am about half way through...

Brett reminds me of Holly Golightly of breakfast at Tiffany's ...a little flighty and unsure of herself and what she wants...I wonder if mike knows or if he even cares

I also wonder if the ending is like the ending of the great gatsby... It seems to be set up the same with the love triangle... Wondering who dies at the end? It

Seems like a bunch of lonely people doing meaning less activity.... The drinking just adds to the emptiness...

I was just thinking in Hemingway's novels if the same characters exist with different names like reoccurring themes in his books?

I like his writing to the point and the sarcastic dry humor.

Rachel wrote: "This is also my first reading of a Hemingway book, I know I am way late to the party but I am about half way through...

Brett reminds me of Holly Golightly of breakfast at Tiffany's ...a little fl..."

It reminded me a lot of F Scott Fitzgerald too. I googled after finishing the book and hasn't realised til then that F Scott was a mentor of Hemingway.

Me bad I thought Gatsby was writing by Hemingway

I think your comment were still valid - I think the similarities you pointed out between this book and Gatsby were interesting.

I have finally finished reading the book...the things I enjoyed were the characters and how they developed (the men), and I really liked Jake and was wise enough not to get involved with Brett, I really enjoyed there friendship that he cared about her and did his best to give her the right advice that she wouldn't take... To me it was hard for me to understand that she (Brett ) didn't understand why Cohn and Mike...sort of went crazy...all in all I liked the novel it ended sort of how it began...just a simple story about a group of friends....

I liked all the drinking more so because of it was "social" drinking, it made it seem more real it me I guess...

On to the bell jar.... :)