Science Fiction & Fantasy Award Winning Book Group discussion

Hey everyone. This is for discussion of March’s group book:
China Mountain Zhang by Maureen F. McHugh.
This won the 1992 James Tiptree Jr. award.

Unless it’s a very general comment make sure you use spoiler code.
< spoiler>Comment< /spoiler> Without the spaces.

This sounds like it could be quite a powerful book.

I just picked this one up and looking forward to checking it out! Very curious to see what it is like :)

I'm just over half-way through and I can't figure it out.

I'm really enjoying it... I just don't know why!

It doesn't seem very science fictional, and the plot is pretty thin. But the characters are definitely carrying it for me - I'm reading just to find out what happens to them.

So, I've just finished this one, and on flicking back through it, the opening quote makes a lot more sense to me:

'A simple way to get to know about a town is to see how the people work, how they love and how they die' - Albert Camus.

(view spoiler)[When I started reading this book I thought it wasn't very SFnal. It seemed to be mostly about people's lives in a very literary fiction way: the small interactions between people that don't necessarily go somewhere; the minor triumphs, the everyday events. But I think that's just because I was expecting world-building to be didactic.

For example, jacking in. It's a cyberpunk trope that's through-out the book, and it's shown in their lives but never really explored the full extent. Like, there's no utopia/dystopia about it: there's no effort to show how everybody's lives could be vastly improved by jacking in and not much about how everybody's lives could be ruined by it. It's just a tool, mostly useful, but somewhat controlled because it might be a bit addictive. This is so low-key, but I really appreciated it by the end.

Like, the bit where he goes to the 'golden ball' club. The scene does show some of the recreational/addictive possibilities of jacking in, but it's much more about Zhang and Haitao's relationship.
The part where he's learning tao engineering is much more SFnal about exploring the possibilities of jacking in - but again, it's also about his career and his work and wanting to acheive what he's been working toward for so long.

I'm rambling, but basically wondering how everyone felt about this method of world-building? It really worked for me. It was understated, but very convincing. (hide spoiler)]

The chapter 'Three Frangrances' from San-xiang's point of view:

(view spoiler)[This was one of the most realistic depictions of date rape I've ever seen in fiction, let alone science fiction.

This absolutely broke my heart. Especially the way that San-xiang fails to protect herself or listen to her insticts because she wants to appear cool, and she doesn't want to hurt his feelings.

And the fact that he had the nerve to call her up again afterwards as if he hadn't raped her! It's quite common for date rapists to pretend what happened was consensual, so this really made me angry - but it did such a good job of showing how it impacted her entire life. She doesn't feel safe. That fear that he could find her again at any time surely drives her eventual decision to go to Mars.

It was just a normal night out for him, and for her it changed the trajectory of her whole life. (hide spoiler)]

Nick, in reply to your comments:

(view spoiler)[San-xiang's rape was hard to get through. Inside I was screaming all the warnings that she was ignoring.

Often I skim-read scenes like this when they get too much, but I consciously read the whole thing, like I was being a witness. I was raging inside that she was so sheltered, that no one had ever taken her aside and explained warning signs in dating to her, or told her what was "normal" and what absolutely isn't.

And then I got super-mad that no one did probably because 1) of her appearance ('who would try to rape the ugly girl?') and 2) culture, the role of women, code of silence, etc.

The low-key worldbuilding was great. To the characters, the technology is matter-of-fact. It works. If they've known nothing different, then no comment needs to be made. (So cool because that's what we do with our technology! I use Photoshop every day, and someone from 1950 would be blown away by that. But I could never explain how it works and I don't think about how photo editing software has changed life.)

Even though I love hard SF and info-dumping, I loved McHugh's approach. I saw it as a story about small people leading small (but not unimportant) lives. It was much more relatable than an epic tale where all the characters are captains, leaders, rulers, lone survivors, rebels, etc. (hide spoiler)]

Rachel, yes!:

(view spoiler)[Rachel (Kalanadi) wrote: "It was much more relatable than an epic tale where all the characters are captains, leaders, rulers, lone survivors, rebels, etc.."

Yes, exactly, it struck me as China was getting into a relationship with the young guy towards the end of the book (I forget his name). There's was no attempt to make China a hero fighting back against the homophobia, but he also wasn't a victim, he had his life and he made his choices. Even the gay part was so wonderfully NOT sensational. I think a lot of authors with a less deft touch would've made the cruising scenes more lascivious, but McHugh is very straight forward and so you just empathise with characters living their lives. (hide spoiler)]

Two chapters done.

Joe did you know beforehand that both of this month's picks occurred after a Marxist/socialist revolution?

Jo Walton really likes this book!

China Mountain

(view spoiler)[Can't remember the last time I felt so much empathy for two different characters for two different reasons in a single chapter. I liked both of them although I wonder if Zhang couldn't have been more honest with San-xiang. I'm not saying he should have told her, that's a tough position to be in.

It looks like the theme of being an outsider or not belonging will be shared between this book and The Child Garden. (hide spoiler)]

Kites

(view spoiler)[Enjoyed this chapter. Not sure if I was supposed to get something from it but it was interesting. Kind of funny how in the previous chapter Zhang thought that San-xiang's family had 'little social grace' and in this chapter Angel basically thinks the same thing of him. (hide spoiler)]

Jon wrote: "Two chapters done.

Joe did you know beforehand that both of this month's picks occurred after a Marxist/socialist revolution?"

I was wondering about the picks for this month as well. It's not just the socialist thing, also the gay angle, slightly shabby futures,somewhat literary. These books have a lot in common!

Finished

Does anyone else dislike it when books don't have a Table of Contents?

Baffin Island

(view spoiler)[I grew up in a northern state and spent many a day on the ice so my mind supplied all of the ambiance needed for this chapter. Loved it. Reinforcing Zhang's sense of isolation. I think here is where he finally decides to work the system a little. Bend but don't break. He never gives up his inner self but uses his outer appearance and the way he was raised, along with his hard work here, to get ahead. (hide spoiler)]

Jerusalem Ridge

(view spoiler)[This chapter surprised me a little. Seemed to come out of nowhere. Where's the connection? Martine did seem very real, an interesting and complex character. (hide spoiler)]

Ghost

(view spoiler)[As Nick and Rachel mentioned earlier many of the SF aspects of the book stayed in the background, but this chapter seemed to me to have the most. The viruses (another connection to TCG?), medical procedures, the apartment controls, the gaming, etc. Haitao is another turning point in Zhang's life. Zhang finally seemed a little happy for a while. (hide spoiler)]

Homework

(view spoiler)[I enjoyed this and the connection to Zhang, but it still felt a little out of place. Picturing an eight year old child with a bunch of goats made me smile. (hide spoiler)]

Daoist Engineering

(view spoiler)[Zhang is moving up in the world. Outward conformity while he keeps his secrets to himself. Contrast him with Milena (TCG) whose secret was known to those in power. She had something they wanted so she was allowed to prosper while his only chance is to keep it all to himself. We finally get to see Zhang's engineering side. (hide spoiler)]

Three Fragrances

(view spoiler)[Difficult to read. You see it coming but there's nothing you can do to stop it except to put the book down. Also I can't imagine spending any excess money to try to curry political favors while ignoring my child's medical issues. Seriously? (hide spoiler)]

Rafael

(view spoiler)[Zhang finally makes it to the top of the Mountain and decides that he doesn't like the view. Many of the different threads of the story come together. Zhang decides he's not interested in China or the big companies in North America. He surrounds himself with outsiders like himself and starts his something where he can just be himself. (hide spoiler)]

I really enjoyed this book. It reminded me of Central Station but I cared more about the characters more in this one. Carmel and R. Brother Patch-It were pretty cool though. Maybe I should re-read that one and see if I appreciate it more now.

Yes! If books have chapters they should have a contents list!

(view spoiler)[The more I think about it, the more I enjoyed the way that the SF aspects stayed in the background. If you were writing about the modern day from the perspective of someone hundreds of years ago, life in a third world country might not seem too different to them, but if they suddenly made it to Silicon Valley it would look very different! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter by Chapter
(view spoiler)[Got any favourites? I still feel like 'Kites' is the odd one out. We don't see much of Zhang from her point of view (and what we do see seemed very unlike him?) and she isn't really woven into the rest of the story. On the other hand, I could've read a whole book just about Martine and Alexi building a life on Mars. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[It's funny because there is so much future tech in the book that you probably wouldn't shelve it as anything but SF, and yet the SF elements, while enhancing it, didn't really affect the story. It was all about the characters. (hide spoiler)]

Faves

(view spoiler)[I don't think that I can pick one. My first impulse was Baffin Island just because of how hard it would be for a city boy in that environment. I already said that I loved that one. But then I thought Rafael because I liked the way it ended. I never guessed that he would pull his friends together to start something new. But I also agree with your comment about Mars, so how could those two chapters not be among my favs. And the Daoist Engineering section was cool thinking about how that huge building was built and how all the sections worked together. And then I'm at half of the book so I'm not really picking a favorite, just reinforcing that I really liked the book. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[I was thinking last night about the speech Zhang made in front of his class. He implied that Marx was wrong, history is not linear and I think he meant that you would not automatically end up with or stop at Marxism. So is Zhang's new company the beginning of the return of capitalism? (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[It would be interesting if it was the return of capitalism! I don't think that Zhang has much ideological intention, so he'd probably do it accidentally as a by-product of just trying to get along.

I wish I could see the Daoist Engineering place, because it sounds amazing. I would by a Daoist Engineering textbook if they had one. (hide spoiler)]

I didn’t plan it with them both being after a revolution. My main thought was both near future with gender and a person's place in society being the main link.

China Mountain

(view spoiler)[
Jon, I agree with your thoughts on this chapter. Surprising amount of empathy for 2 different characters for completely different reason in such a short amount of time. They’ve both got significant issues to try to overcome as best they can so interested to see where it goes.
(hide spoiler)]

Kites

(view spoiler)[
A fun and fast paced shorter chapter. The kite racing idea sounds rather interesting and we get a bit of interaction with Zhang. He’s not very social this time and he’s now lost his job after what happened.
(hide spoiler)]

Baffin Island

(view spoiler)[
The isolation Zhang experiences works out rather well for him it seems. It’s making him think in ways he might not of done so when he goes back to New York (if he does, could be China) he’ll hopefully do better overall.
(hide spoiler)]

Jerusalem Ridge

(view spoiler)[
I have no idea how this is meant to link to the other plotlines but it’ll be interesting to find out. I love how this colony feels so rough and new; can’t help thinking of the frontier part of american history.
(hide spoiler)]

Ghost
(view spoiler)[
As mentioned above, the technology side of the book really came out in this chapter for the first time. Zhang finally seems to be in a place where he’s becoming comfortable and is able to be himself, as much as possible under the circumstances of course. Didn’t expect it to end with a death though.
(hide spoiler)]


Homework

(view spoiler)[
Good to know the rather tenuous connection to Zhang. He’s still in China at this point. I didn’t expect so many goats to be in a SF book which is fine.
(hide spoiler)]

Finished.

Daoist Engineering

(view spoiler)[
He’s becoming happy professionally but personally he’s still having to hide who he is, which is a great shame to see.
(hide spoiler)]

Three Fragrances

(view spoiler)[
Obviously not an easy chapter to read. The complete lack of guidance and advice that San-Ziang has been given is remarkable.
(hide spoiler)]

Rafael

(view spoiler)[
This was a really good ending to the book. He’s finally made it to the high levels he originally dreamed of and then his dreams changed. Sounds like life to me
(hide spoiler)]