2025 Reading Challenge discussion

This is the discussion thread for The Handmaid's Tale Chapter 1-12

This is something new I want to do this month, and I'll only state it this one time to keep the conversation positive.
Please by no means let it scare you away. Everyone is welcome! :)

I just ask for everyone to be nice during the month of March. We're here to have a discussion, learn facts, share stories, and still represent our believes without personally attacking anyone.

Happy Reading!

Taylor R wrote: "I just ask for everyone to be nice during the month of March"
Exclusively during the month of March, Taylor? ;)

I've got mah cup of tea, mah blanket and I'm ready to go! :)

P.S. I wanted to insert an image to show how excited I was, but couldn't be bothered... sorry :D Instead I got this

Lisa wrote: "Taylor R wrote: "I just ask for everyone to be nice during the month of March"
Exclusively during the month of March, Taylor? ;)

I've got mah cup of tea, mah blanket and I'm ready to go! :)

P.S...."

That'll work for me haha! I'm ready too!
Made it to chapter 4 already. I'm curious to hear what every one things of the format of the writing.

I'm so excited to re-read this book!

How many of you are planning to watch the miniseries on Hulu? I'm excited for that too!

Catherine wrote: "I'm so excited to re-read this book!

How many of you are planning to watch the miniseries on Hulu? I'm excited for that too!"

I will once it is released in April :)

I know it's not March yet but...

let me know when you realize things become more clear for anyone. :)

I usually do not read a books description. I should probably start doing that. I went on wiki just to get a grasp of the concept. As I reach III. Night it becomes more clear of what is going on

I think I'll wait until the weekend to really immerse myself in this book :)
Looking forward to discussing and seeing what everyone thinks :)

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Woooo! It's March 1st everyone! Welcome!! :)

Here is a little background towards the stories setting and the author. If you want to find out everything on what it's like on your own PLEASE do not open the spoiler. I use spoiler loosely, this is more like basic info just in case anyone hasn't realized these facts yet (I sure as heck didn't realize some of them because I try not to read into the book descriptions).

(view spoiler)[
Margaret Atwood is a Canadian author
Invented/developed the LongPen. Super cool, I recommend a good search on this one!
She was a University teacher on and off again (between 1965-1972, 1985)
She avoids classifying The Handmaid's Tale as science fiction, rather it is speculative fiction.


Setting:
Near-future New England
Totalitarianism Theocracy
speculated to be around the year 2005
once the United States is now the Republic of Gilead
dressed according to their social functions and rank (class status)

genders are heavily divided
Categories of Men:
Commanders of the Faithful
Eyes
Angels
Guardians of the Faith

Categories of Women:
Legitimate: Wives, Daughters, Handmaids, Aunts, Marthas, Econowives.

Illegitimate Women: Unwomen, Jezebels, Babies, Unbabies, Keepers.
(hide spoiler)]

Enjoy and talk to everyone soon!

I just started Chapter 10. Some observations so far: (view spoiler)[ I love how quietly futuristic it is. In my mind I'm comparing it to something like The Hunger Games where the future is very bleak and horrible. So far in this book, it's bleak (obviously) but it's much more subtle, in my opinion. Most people still have homes, food, clothing, but it's everyone's way of life that has changed completely. And the way the narrator keeps flashing back to "the way things used to be" and then trying not to think about it is fascinating to me.

I try every day, just normally, to not take things for granted. I'm a single woman in my 40's, and I try to think about how lucky I am that I can do things like vote, own my house, have a job, just buy stuff at the store, go on vacation by myself, go out to eat by myself. It's not that far-fetched to think that some of our liberties could be taken away in the blink of an eye. (hide spoiler)]

Catherine wrote: "I just started Chapter 10. Some observations so far: ..."

I really liked reading your observations! What I like (or don't like? because it's actually a tragic outlook) is how this book can relate to just about any woman. I'm in my mid 20's, engaged, with a step daughter and a huge family. It's just, it's scary to think about that it could happen now, in the future, and I can't imagine how it might of felt reading it during the Women's Movement at the tail end of the 80's.
I find this the most intriguing aspect of the book so far; that Margaret Atwood calls it a speculation fiction. It gave me chills yesterday thinking that it could happen. I actually had to step away from it for a moment lol. My thoughts got too deep!

And I agree about the other series you are comparing it to. It's just subtle enough.

Thank you Catherine! :) And thank you for keeping it as a spoiler! You have no idea how happy that made me lol.

Hello everyone, I usually do a question of the week as Group Read leader. This time, I won't be doing as many questions; more facts this time around.

Catherine has inspired me on my first question though! (Thank you Catherine!)

Using our imagination or using our real lives, how do you think you would function in the Republic of Gilead? Maybe instead of asking such a specific question, do you think you could manage it? Or-- to get the ball rolling during our first week of reading, in general what do you think so far?

Me--- no. Haha! If I had to be in this world, then I have to. But I don't think I could live without my family, my cats, and pizza. :)

Catherine wrote: "I just started Chapter 10. Some observations so far: I love how quietly futuristic it is. In my mind I'm comparing it to something like The Hunger Games where the future is very bleak and horrible..."

I completely agree Catherine - it made me think of boiling a lobster (not that I've ever done it!) but that idea of things changing degree by degree until you don't realise how hot the water is, (or how bad the situation) I think that is what makes this book quite scary and incredibly politically relevant right now.

Taylor R wrote: " Using our imagination or using our real lives, how do you think you would function in the Republic of Gilead? Maybe instead of asking such a specific question, do you think you could manage it? Or-- to get the ball rolling during our first week of reading, in general what do you think so far? "

In a way it feels like the most real of all the dystopias I've read and definitely makes me appreciate the society I live in.
What bugs me a bit about it is that the changes in the society seem to have happened very rapidly.
As for whether I would manage, I suppose I would have no choice but to adapt, but it would definitely be very hard.

Do we know for sure that the changes in society happened rapidly? It does seem that way, but at this point in the book we're only getting glimpses of the past. Unless I missed it, we don't know how old the narrator is, we just know a few things about what she did "before" and when she did those things. (I'm being deliberately vague, but if you've read up to Chapter 12 you know what I mean.)

For me, I'd probably be a "Martha" in this version of the future due to my age and status ... or maybe I'd be with the Unwomen in "the colonies". It's possible that the rumors about the Unwomen are just rumors ... maybe they are actually having a lot more fun off in the colonies! :)

Catherine wrote: "Do we know for sure that the changes in society happened rapidly? "

We don't know how old she is, but she must be relatively young considering her role in the new society and the glimpses show that she had time to live for a while as an adult women in the past society. There is one more thing, but I think it was said after chapter 12 so I'll put it under spoiler, but it's not really relevant to the plot (view spoiler)[ At one point she says that the oldest she remebers her daughter is five and that she must be eight now, so that would mean only three years passed of her living that way. (hide spoiler)]

Oh interesting! From my perspective while reading, I thought the changes to society were thoroughly developed enough to the point that the narrator (among the others too) know what will happen if they go out of line/break the rules/etc.

I've been curious as to how it (the change and war) happened and why these changes are the way they are. I don't think anyway it's been mentioned yet. (I'm up to chapter 16 so maybe it has and I've missed that information) Like, who decided it had to be this way.. or is that just how Atwood created this dystopia/society/country?

I didn't take into consideration how long it has been though. That's an aspect I didn't think of.

I'm not sure what chapter I'm on (I just read a little bit more over my lunch, but I left the book in my car) but from what I can remember, they haven't addressed how the changes or the war happened or when exactly. My impression is that things were "normal" when she was in college and at the beginning of her relationship with Luke, and then started to change gradually at some point after that up until the present time.

Catherine wrote: "I just started Chapter 10. Some observations so far: I love how quietly futuristic it is. In my mind I'm comparing it to something like The Hunger Games where the future is very bleak and horrible..."

some great observations. I strongly believe that one of Atwood's main points was that, given the right conditions, rights can be taken away. A couple of my favorite quotes are in these early chapters -- one from Ch. 6 "Ordinary, said Aunt Lydia, is what you are used to. This may not seem ordinary to you now, but after a time it will. It will become ordinary." I believe some of that is happening in the current climate... a level of 'normalization'.

Taylor R wrote: "Catherine wrote: "I just started Chapter 10. Some observations so far: ..."

I really liked reading your observations! What I like (or don't like? because it's actually a tragic outlook) is how thi..."

As someone in college in the mid 80's this was frightening to read because I grew up seeing the first wave of feminism fight for rights (and see some of those fights as the slippery slope such as burning pornography because it opened the door to censorship - and if the left could censor, how could the right be denied the same?)

Technology that we take for granted like ATMs and such - the fear that you could be 'shut-off' was real. The 80's were also the heyday of the TV Evangelists and the religious backlash against women who had chosen to work and not have children or to challenge men in the workplace. That this work (and 1984, Brave New World, etc. have become relevant again... that rights that were gained in my lifetime are under threat... it seemed inconceivable over the last couple decades.

Sheryl_at_Ubookquitous wrote: "Catherine wrote: "I just started Chapter 10. Some observations so far: I love how quietly futuristic it is. In my mind I'm comparing it to something like The Hunger Games where the future is very b..."

I posted a similar quote on Facebook the other day. And now that I'm farther along in the book, it's getting more and more creepy to me. I actually had to put the book down tonight because I felt sick (I'm on Chapter 28 now).

Taylor R wrote: " Hello everyone, I usually do a question of the week as Group Read leader. This time, I won't be doing as many questions; more facts this time around.

Catherine has inspired me on my first questio..."

LOL I'd adapt (although at my age, I'd be a Martha or a Cora. LOL) for a time, but I'm too outspoken, too active to have lasted long. I love Offred / June for a reason (which I won't say right now), but I always wonder if I'd be more her or Moira.

Ellen wrote: "Catherine wrote: "I just started Chapter 10. Some observations so far: I love how quietly futuristic it is. In my mind I'm comparing it to something like The Hunger Games where the future is very b..."

Ellen - you reminded me of a quote from Offred/June in Ch 10 --
“Nothing changes instantaneously: in a gradually heating bathtub you'd be boiled to death before you knew it.”

I have to admit, in some ways the structure of their society is a little appealing to me. I do like the idea of having set rules and boundaries. But it's interesting that no one is really happy, not even the men. Plus, I wouldn't last even one day if you took away my books. And my Snickers bars.

Catherine wrote: "Do we know for sure that the changes in society happened rapidly? It does seem that way, but at this point in the book we're only getting glimpses of the past. Unless I missed it, we don't know how..."

We do eventually get a specific age as well as specifics of how the Theocracy took over later in the book. At the end, there is a bit that gives a bit of a 'historical' look at the 'society' that also contextualizes how long it took. But, hindsight is 20/20 and like when you study WWII and the Holocaust you realize that the seeds were there long before the 'big events' took place. (For WWII - ridiculously high inflation because WWI reparations, the need to scapegoat, a distaste for the government under Bismark, etc.)

Atwood looked at trends in the 80s such as the Televangelists, the backlash against feminism's gains, the grown religious conservative movement, the growing technology that could be used against specific demographics.... and extrapolated if those trends continued where the US could end up.

If you are interested in why it takes place in NE (and specifically where) view the spoiler below

(view spoiler)[Atwood set this in Harvard Mass. in part because of American's dark history with 'religious freedom' - that Salem Mass was settled for religious freedom, but ONLY their religion. Atwood has some relationship to one of the Salem 'witch' families and lived at Harvard. The wall where offenders are hung from is there in Harvard. The "Puritan" instinct can be seen in the history of Massachusetts, including things like 'no liquor sales on Sundays' and 'no tattooing' both of which only recently changed. (hide spoiler)]

Taylor R wrote: "Oh interesting! From my perspective while reading, I thought the changes to society were thoroughly developed enough to the point that the narrator (among the others too) know what will happen if t..."

You do get some answers to the how this government came into power and was able to set up the theocracy later in the book. It isn't a long involved explanation so it is easy to miss.

One of the techniques Atwood uses that I love is how she twists language throughout. Offred / June muses often on language and what it used to mean. There are rules, and phrases attributed to the bible she questions but can't check because women aren't allowed to read.

My favorite quote of all-time from any book occurs in this section, Ch 10: "We were the people who were not in the papers. We lived in the blank white spaces at the edge of print. It gave us more freedom."

In context at face-value it is Offred/June who is thinking about how in the past she and others had the luxury of ignoring all the bad things happening in the news -- that they were, because of who they were (college kids) or because they chose to remain ignorant -- they were outside of it. But, like many many sentences in the novel, they also can be see in an opposite manner - that she and others like her -- the Handmaid's and those NOT in power have become literally marginalized.

Watched the movie of "The Handmaid's Tale" and liked it. I'm on Chapter 8 and enjoying it so far.

Sheryl_at_Ubookquitous wrote: "Catherine wrote: "Do we know for sure that the changes in society happened rapidly? It does seem that way, but at this point in the book we're only getting glimpses of the past. Unless I missed it,..."

Ya'll are blowing my mind right now! :D
Awesome feedback, from everyone!!
Sorry I didn't see this sooner otherwise I would have jumped into conversation.

The example of WWII put my previous curiosity into a real perspective. There was always "seeds" there but it wasn't realized until the main event. I get it now. I will just have to wait on more information on how this government was started and keep reading on. Thank you so much Sheryl!!

Your story of being a college student is 1) fascinating and 2) still scary to think about what people were going through then. I will be the obvious and put it out there; many women are fighting for their rights to this day/again/still are, etc.

And that's what I find most intriguing about this book. I'm not taking ANYTHING away from those women who spoke for us when I couldn't, and I'm not taking away what they have accomplished. But what I find fascinating, is in Atwood's world, it's already happened. The worse has already been done. It being the government has changed, people are forced to change, and there was no stopping it. Truly scary, truly fascinating. I hope it never has to happen, but I'm grateful for the women who have spoken up for their rights. I sound super cheesy, but I'm very proud of Offred, and I hope her ending is a well deserved one... I'll just have to wait and see ;)

Catherine wrote: "I have to admit, in some ways the structure of their society is a little appealing to me. I do like the idea of having set rules and boundaries. But it's interesting that no one is really happy, no..."

Once I got to that part I though, oh heck no you want to take away my books too?!?!? Nah not happening lol. I need cats, pizza, and books to survive lol! Just kidding, I'd survive but I'd hate every minute of it.

Exactly right! I can't imagine having all that free time and not having anything to do. If I have even five free minutes, there's a book in my hand.

Did anybody else think her name was off red rather than of Fred? Took me a while to catch on. Lol

You're not alone, Mindy; it took me a while to catch on, too.

Taylor R wrote: "Sheryl_at_Ubookquitous wrote: "Catherine wrote: "Do we know for sure that the changes in society happened rapidly? It does seem that way, but at this point in the book we're only getting glimpses o..."

Interestingly, I grew up in a conservative family in Mass. - although my folks were young (married in the early 60's) they were more like models from the 50s. My mom did work outside the home, and interestingly, my dad took on many roles that weren't 'traditional' male. They taught me a lot about equality. College was where I shifted to much stronger in my beliefs around equality in all areas. But I will see there were so many positive changes between the 80's and now... and I hope what we are seeing is the last gasps of those who feel they are losing their power and not a shift that we walk down the same road as Germany and Europe did.

Mindy wrote: "Did anybody else think her name was off red rather than of Fred? Took me a while to catch on. Lol"

I think the movie with Natasha Richardson pronounces it OFFred rather than ofFRED.... but I did - and still do. :-)

Sheryl_at_Ubookquitous wrote: "The 80's were also the heyday of the TV Evangelists and the religious backlash against women who had chosen to work and not have children or to challenge men in the workplace."

Hard to believe now, but in the early 1970s it was not only common but LEGAL for banks to discriminate against women's income on loan applications. The thought was that if the woman got pregnant she would of course give up her job to stay home with the child, so her income shouldn't be counted. The ECOA passed in 1974 and changed all that. This book was published 11 years after that date.

If you find that fact interesting you might enjoy this article: https://www.theguardian.com/money/us-...

Sheryl_at_Ubookquitous wrote: "LOL I'd adapt (although at my age, I'd be a Martha or a Cora. LOL) for a time, but I'm too outspoken, too active to have lasted long. I love Offred / June for a reason (which I won't say right now), but I always wonder if I'd be more her or Moira."

Although we would all like to think that we would be part of a resistance, I think Atwood is saying in this book that for the most part we would all end up reluctantly accepting the changes and adapting. Really, that seems to be the message of most dystopian fiction like 1984 - teen dystopias like Hunger Games play a little more heavily to the idealism of youth.

I am finding this book to read rather quickly. I tend to get immersed in this story. I actually have to blink and look around to realize I am not really there. I am so glad I am not really there. I do not know if it is my kindle edition or not but I find that the scene jumps to what appears to be a memory without warning. I like a little page break or chapter break when going from one scene in the present to a flashback or memory. Sometimes there is a space in the reading. Sometimes it is evident that her mind drifts back to a memory, but sometimes without warning I find I must be reading a memory or flashback. Still a good read.

Catherine wrote: "Exactly right! I can't imagine having all that free time and not having anything to do. If I have even five free minutes, there's a book in my hand."

Me too! I always have my kindle and at least three gaming devices with me even when I only get two minutes of spare time.

This book is very intriguing and thoughtprovoking. Since it's written in this quiet style and withg smalls insights to how it were before, it makes you feel like it's closer to something that could happen in real life than some other dystopias.

Sheryl_at_Ubookquitous wrote: "Mindy wrote: "Did anybody else think her name was off red rather than of Fred? Took me a while to catch on. Lol"
....."

I say OFFrid...with an I. Hm. Lol I dunno if it's right but I'm gonna stick with it now because I've said OFFrid too many times now.

Randy-- and thank goodness for it. This book is surfacing several bits of information that I knew happened but never looked into: like your explanation for ECOA. I will read more thoroughly your article once I'm awake more lol. Thanks!

Gail wrote: "I am finding this book to read rather quickly. I tend to get immersed in this story. I actually have to blink and look around to realize I am not really there. I am so glad I am not really there. I..."

Gail and Winter--

That is one thing I told myself to catch on to early on. I always thought books without quotations was confusing, but I understand it in this book. You're right, she's reliving memories. And I think there is no warning because Offred isn't suppose to talk unless spoken to (not always but for most people she can't) so she's just constantly talking to herself. Especially with nothing to do all day, I'd probably talk alot to myself too lol.
I think being inside her mind for the first 80 pages or so is extremely intriguing, when considering how it was written as well.

Mindy wrote: "Did anybody else think her name was off red rather than of Fred? Took me a while to catch on. Lol"

I'm listening to the audiobook today, and the narrator just said ofFRED, with a whole lotta harsh, emphasis of the f's lol.

LOL, is it Claire Danes? Starting it soon.

Mindy wrote: "LOL, is it Claire Danes? Starting it soon."

Yes it is :)

Using our imagination or using our real lives, how do you think you would function in the Republic of Gilead? Maybe instead of asking such a specific question, do you think you could manage it? Or-- to get the ball rolling during our first week of reading, in general what do you think so far?

I think I would be really be bored living in Gilead and not being able to read or anything else. I wouldn't do well in a society where I couldn't have education. I feel more fortunate reading this book. I love all the little hints and clues the book gives as to what happened to her to get to this point. It really makes you turn the pages. If I had more time to read this week, I probably would have finished it already. It's a heavy message in the book in the fact that she doesn't seem to pay too much attention to what is going on in the world until it happens to her. Did anyone else read that as an undertone? That's probably what scares me the most. I make a point of voting and mostly following the news but I try not to get all wrapped up in it because I feel that it makes me mad or depressed if I don't like something. I feel like it could be a warning to stand up more for what you believe in.

Joan wrote: "Using our imagination or using our real lives, how do you think you would function in the Republic of Gilead? Maybe instead of asking such a specific question, do you think you could manage it? Or-..."

When I finished the book yesterday, that is one thing that hit me HARD! This whole time, this whole week and a half I've been thinking and discussion what she sees, what she feels, what we as a reader can observe. And then.... it's like, I evaluated all the subtle clues and I was just left with this chilling dumb struck look on my face. I'm assuming I looked dumb anyway lol.

The subtle moments of this book is power.

Taylor R wrote: "Joan wrote: "Using our imagination or using our real lives, how do you think you would function in the Republic of Gilead? Maybe instead of asking such a specific question, do you think you could m..."

It's definitely thought provoking. My Mom is older and doesn't read too much but I send her books every now and then that really speak to me. This will probably be one I send her. She won't seek out books on her own.

Using our imagination or using our real lives, how do you think you would function in the Republic of Gilead? Maybe instead of asking such a specific question, do you think you could manage it? Or-- to get the ball rolling during our first week of reading, in general what do you think so far?

OK, I'd be the lady who killed herself by drowning in the bathtub when Gilead was first starting. Not even joking. No way would I put up with that crap. (Like when I read Station Eleven and they were getting into fights for survival I was like "Nah, bro, let the sickness get me!!" Rather be partying with Jesus in heaven than be in that mess.)

As for what I think about it, I just finished Chapter 12 and I'm really engaged in the story. I sort have the impression that Offred is in her late 30s based on the doctor saying she is getting to the end of her childbirthing years.

Yeah, I was saying Offred as one word until that pregnant woman in the shop was called Ofwayne. And then I was like "ohhhhh Of Fred!!" But then that makes me wonder if they get a new name every time they switch houses.

I'm really curious to see more about how the world developed. It does seem like developed quickly if Offred had a normal college experience and then 5 years with her daughter. If she is in her late 30s, that means that Gilead has probably been going for like 10 years max.

It kind of reminds me of 1984 in that you hear about a far-off war, but the day-to-day is totally "normal."

The part with the Japanese tourists made me sad--it's all so fake!! Like Stepford Wives or Pleasantville but WORSE.

Emily wrote: "Using our imagination or using our real lives, how do you think you would function in the Republic of Gilead? Maybe instead of asking such a specific question, do you think you could manage it? Or-..."

As you read further, there is an initiating event that allows the Gilead theocracy to come to power (but as the 'battles' and 'front lines' mention, they are still at war trying to maintain their control) but it is heavily implied throughout that the conditions for such a theocracy have been there for a long time -- thing Offred / June says she and others, especially in college, had the luxury to ignore because it didn't impact them directly.

Offred specifically gives her age a bit down the road, but the doctor isn't referring to the amount of child-bearing years, but rather, that she has a limited number of placements to produce a baby, they evaluate her and determine what her fate is to be. Offred points out that according to the government, there are no sterile men. This limited number of placements and blaming the women for any lack of a child is mentioned throughout the novel.

I agree on the 'normal' idea. Throughout Offred/June talks about this new 'normal' where most people, for survival and sanity if nothing else, accept the world to the point where it does become their normal. However, Offred/June's telling herself stories, thinking about the past, what used to be, suggests she hasn't accepted this world as normal.

I've just started the book. Can't tell that I'm into it yet, but trying to get to it.