Science and Inquiry discussion

For May 2017 we will be reading The Hidden Life of Trees: What They Feel, How They Communicate – Discoveries from a Secret World by Peter Wohlleben. Please use this thread to post questions, comments, and reviews, at any time.

Looks like this is another popular book. I put a hold on the e-book at my library weeks ago, right after the above post. And there is still a double digit wait list on it. I may have to break down and buy it.

I went ahead and bought it. I didn't realize it would be so popular. If you have Amazon Prime, it is a little cheaper.

I am enjoying this book very much. There is incredible information about different varieties of trees and all of the animals and insects and fungi which survive on trees. The Ecosystem of a forest is ever so much more complex than I realized.

: O

A link to my review:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "A link to my review:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."

Good review. My library doesn't have this & I didn't want to buy it because I didn't think I'd buy into his whole 'trees are like people' idea. From reading your review, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have worked for me.

Did he mention much about invasive species? I manage my woodlot a bit & several invasives have really impacted its health. Garlic Mustard stops tree seeds from germinating, Japanese Honeysuckle, various bush honeysuckles crowd out understory trees, & I've lost almost all of my White Ash to the Emerald Ash Borer. They made up 1/5- 1/4 of all the trees in my woods.

Due to these issues, I've had to help the woods out. Some years I spot-spray with 2,4-D during a week in the spring when the invasives are leafed out & growing, but few of the native broad-leaved plants are active. The sudden disappearance of the ash trees, issues with Dutch Elm disease, & a fungus that attacks the Black Cherry has meant a preponderance of Sugar Maple, so I trim them back to foster more diversity.

Our local forestry agent has walked my woods a few times over the past decade & said it's looking a lot healthier & better due to my intervention. That doesn't seem to be the message I got from your review of Wohlleben's book, though. Did he get into these issues at all?

Jim wrote: "aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "A link to my review:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."

Good review. My library doesn't have this & I d..."

Wohlleben covers the subject of invasive species upfront primarily in a chapter called 'immigrants', but he sprinkles references how immigrants affect the ability of trees to recover from other causes throughout the book. Basically, since so many things hurt and kill trees which are beyond anyone's control, he seems to emphasize doing things which give trees strength and resiliance. The only condemnation he really expresses is against man-caused fires, which he says far outnumber those fires caused by lightning.

As far as the use of chemicals, I got the impression that as his focus is long Timeline, and on trees as they live and are managed in a forest of brethren or systemic competition, he approaches the ills of trees as an issue of overall compromise, or to be considered in overall environment issues.

Compatible trees support each other when one is sick or weak (proven fact), so besides chemicals, he says try to support the trees in allowing their 'babies' to grow up without removing trees for human space or aesthetics. Trees naturally prune lower limbs and grow, or not, too heavy crowns, but things go wrong in Nature as well as man-caused disasters. He gives some advice on how and when to prune.

He does mention global warming obliquely in a discussion of historical climate change over millennia having caused trees and other flora and fauna to slowly move north and south over Europe as the weather became colder or hotter, with some species disappearing forever, and others adapting. He mentioned how species are being killed off because of timing issues caused by warming or cooling weather. He discusses some insects that help and hurt, as well as birds.

Urban trees planted in cities do not live as long as forest bred trees, duh, right? He says the main issue, I think, is that city trees have their roots messed with too much and do not have contact with supportive brethren who could help with shared sugar, water and other biological strengthening, such as fruiting and fungi, and wind protection.

He also discusses the different ways and what is needed by different types of trees - beeches, aspens, alders, birches - conifers vs, deciduous - and how what is good for some trees is bad for others. However, overall, this is a general information book.

I didn't get so much of the trees are like people vibe in the same way. It was much more of a feel that they are a lot more complicated then we give them credit for, since they are working on a different time span it seems. They communicate, but in a way that is far different then what we are used to, and a bit slower.
They have an interesting relationship with fungi that I would love to know more about.

Thanks. I don't think it would work for me, but some might be due to different areas, too. I appreciate the long response.

I have started reading the book. It is very good, with a lot of surprises. The translation is excellent. It is easy reading, a rather short book. No photographs though.

I just started it and it is very unlike any other book I've read. Never realized the network (he calls it the "wood wide web") of communication that trees have! And the role of fungi in all this. And this is science, not fancy. So it's pretty cool. I did not realize how social trees are. Just like many animals. Altruistic in the same sense, and for the same reasons, that we are. Very easy to read. I'm captivated.

Just finished. I loved it. I'll never look at a tree the same way again. Trees are sentient beings, although the author doesn't claim they experience life like animals. We tend to view them as inanimate objects. They are not. They live life slowly but they respond to stimuli and most interestingly, they communicate with each other and support one another through their roots and via symbiotic fungi underground. Never thought about a solitary tree being disadvantaged because it lacks parents and comrades, but this is the case with planted trees. A plantation is not a forest. A forest is more than the sum of its trees. What I learned from this book will stay with me forever.

The book awakened some sensitivities in me and now when I look at trees I feel sad. I live in a rural area where trees are being cut down all the time. I think of them "holding hands" under the ground and having their dear friends taken away. Of course the author does not say they hold hands, he says they feed each other and keep each other alive by transferring nutrients underground. Same thing to me. When I see groups of trees I think of this. When I see trees standing alone, I wonder if they used to be part of a group and if their survival has been diminished by losing that support system. I have uncultivated sparse Florida woods
behind my house and I wonder about those trees as they are not at all like what he was describing. I know this is just what is covered in the beginning of the book, but I never got over it. So much for my scientific thinking.

I just finished the book; it is a wonderful book. I will never look at trees or forests the same. Here is my review.

Betty wrote: "The book awakened some sensitivities in me and now when I look at trees I feel sad. I live in a rural area where trees are being cut down all the time. I think of them "holding hands" under the gro..."
I felt the same way. The author gives solid scientific evidence that trees are not just inanimate objects but social, sentient beings, in their own way.
The more I study science, the more precious life seems. I wish more folks would read these books.

I really love this book. Not only does it communicate a wealth of fascinating information, but it is written in a wonderful style. Easy to read and understand. Here is my review.

Loved Suzanne Simard and Peter Wollheben's "Intelligent Trees" .. is that on topic?

John, sure---same general topic and same author.

I've read the Hungarian translation of the book, it was OK. I expected a lot more science, so at the end I was a bit disappointed. It would be nice if the "science level" of a book was indicated on the cover somehow. Like 'basic, introductory, medium...'. And some illustration would be useful in this book. Anyway, I drew my own ones in my book journal. :D

I am glad the group chose this book despite its relative lack of in-depth science. Books on science are best when they deepen our connection with the world around us (or in some cases inside us). This one accomplished that by making me see trees as part of an organic web that extends in complex symbiosis far below the ground and which exists in signals hidden from people (who haven't read the book)!

I didn't read this book, but saw an article in the NYT this week that casts some doubt on the extent of the communication.

Are Trees Talking Underground? For Scientists, It’s in Dispute.
From Ted Lasso to TED Talks, the theory of the “wood-wide web” is everywhere, and some scientists argue that it is overblown and unproven.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/07/sc...

You only get 3 free articles a month or else the article is paywalled. If it is for you, PM me & I'll see you get to read it.

Hmmm. Doesn't sound like the dispute is very full throated.

I think the theory of trees communicating and interacting in such sophisticated ways requires some thinking outside the box, and deserves a lot more research. Trees are living beings so it really doesn't seem far fetched to hypothesize that they interact and communicate. One must take into account their time frame, which is totally unlike ours...we think and react in terms of seconds and minutes and days; if trees have perspective it is likely over a much longer time span.

Your point on time is a good one. I tend to think of communication as having an immediacy that it doesn't always have. We need to define "communication" better. For instance, I usually think of communicating by sight & sound, but unseen, indirect actions & even smells can communicate as well. Not all communications are voluntary, either. That creates such a broad range that I'm not sure how meaningful the word is, though.