Reading the Detectives discussion

Welcome to our April group read, A Shilling for Candles by Josephine Tey.

This thread is for people who may not have finished the book yet, so please don't post any spoilers here, but save them for the spoiler thread.

A Shilling for Candles is the second in the Inspector Grant series. But you can still enjoy this book as a standalone if you haven't read the first in the series, The Man in the Queue, which was a group read here last year.

I really enjoyed A Shilling for Candles, which has some great characters, including Erica Burgoyne - another of the determined teenage girls who seem to have turned up in quite a few of our recent reads here!

I was also interested to see how detective Alan Grant develops as a character in this one - he starts to become a workaholic, with other characters constantly suggesting he gets more sleep, takes a break or goes without that extra cup of coffee...

I liked this more than the first book and thought it was a more enjoyable mystery. I still didn't really warm to Inspector Grant though, although the side characters were more interesting.

I'm 10% in. I like the writing so far. I've read 4 Tey's before & she is a love or loathe author for me so far - no middle ground!

A year after the book was published Alfred Hitchcock made a movie based on it. He titled the move Young and Innocent. It is on YouTube here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2guOg...

Hmmm, I certainly haven't loved anything by her, but I don't loathe it either. I probably wouldn't pick up a book by her unless it was for a book group read though.

Loathe was probably a bit strong but I certainly found the Man in the Queue & most of Miss Pym Investigates tedious.

But this will be a quick read. I thought I had rattled through to 10% on my kindle quickly! Only 195 pages.

I thought this was much better than The Man in the Queue. Again, there was quite a gap between books, wasn't there? We seem to see that quite often in our reading. Queue was published in 1929 and Candles did not appear until 1936. I also liked the title of this book, which I thought had a really good ring to it.

I like the title, but as someone who is only partway in, I feel it puts a thumb on the scale as far as suspects are concerned. The title is so explicitly connected to one (so far absent) character that it seems obvious one is to exclude other possibilities.

I really enjoyed this book. I, too, enjoyed Erica.

I liked this more than the first one. In that one it was Inspector Grant that attracted me and was not disappointed with him in this second book. I also found Erica very interesting, as she made other young girls we have read about lately , seem so flat.
I had really no idea who the murderer would be , as I kept changing my mind, and that always keeps me enjoying a book.
I thought the title was great, as that was a mystery in itself.

Lucky I'm reading on my kindle- I'm looking up words & expressions all the time. This book is wittier than the other Teys I have read.

Susan wrote: "I liked this more than the first book and thought it was a more enjoyable mystery. I still didn't really warm to Inspector Grant though, although the side characters were more interesting."

Like you Susan, I enjoyed this far more than book 1. I think it was probably two things that made this so for me- One was Erica, and the second... may be that I reserve for the spoiler thread.

Lesley~aka Ella's Gran wrote: "A year after the book was published Alfred Hitchcock made a movie based on it. He titled the move Young and Innocent. It is on YouTube here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2guOg..."

Thanks for this, Lesley - I definitely want to see Hitchcock's film. I understand there are a lot of changes from the book so it will be interesting to see what they are.

Judy wrote: "Lesley~aka Ella's Gran wrote: "A year after the book was published Alfred Hitchcock made a movie based on it. He titled the move Young and Innocent. It is on YouTube here
https://www.youtube.com/wa..."

From what I read of the film, there's no Grant in it, and it develops a romance angle between Erica and Tisdall.

Abigail wrote: "I like the title, but as someone who is only partway in, I feel it puts a thumb on the scale as far as suspects are concerned. The title is so explicitly connected to one (so far absent) character ..."

I haven't started the book yet, but am quite intrigued by your comment regarding the title being a hint. It seems like such a meaningless title combined with the cover picture of the body on the beach. I'm looking forward to seeing what is going on.

You'll see what I mean when you get to that point in the novel!

As with The Ma in the Queue, I thought this book had an exciti g/intriguing opening which immediately makes you want to know the answer to the mystery. Tey knew how to hook readers in the first few pages!

I have been back and forth on Tey, myself. While I ultimately enjoyed the book, it did seem to spend a lot of time on irrelevant things. And I have a difficult time remembering all the characters. Some, yes, like Erica, stood out and were easily remembered, but others, like the people at the party, did not.

I'm having trouble remembering Grant from the first book. I remember the people in the queue and the murder method, but Grant is gone.

Try as I might, I really can't seem to like Inspector Grant...

I have been enjoying the depiction of the newspapermen. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose!

Abigail wrote: "I have been enjoying the depiction of the newspapermen. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose!"

Oh yes, Jammy is wonderful!

This reminds me, I worked in newspapers for many years and never heard anyone say "jam", so I think that expression must have disappeared!

I was interested by Erica's comment that she is in love with Togare the lion tamer, and I wondered what he looked like!

I've found a photo of him which doesn't involve any lions or other animals - he does look quite handsome:

http://www.huisvanalijn.be/product/he...

Togare would go over well in my hometown of West Hollywood, California! What fun that you found that photo, Judy!

Judy wrote: "I was interested by Erica's comment that she is in love with Togare the lion tamer, and I wondered what he looked like!

I've found a photo of him which doesn't involve any lions or other animals -..."

He's a good looking guy.

The expression jammy is still widely used in NZ, but mostly by middleaged & older people.

Carol, I've often heard the expression jammy used in the UK too (and mainly by older people here too!) - but what I meant was that I haven't heard a newspaper story being described as "jam".

Judy wrote: "Carol, I've often heard the expression jammy used in the UK too (and mainly by older people here too!) - but what I meant was that I haven't heard a newspaper story being described as "jam"."

Same here.

The name was also used here in an advert for jam with this chap who was always eating up all the jam.

Well done for finding that photo, Judy. He does look quite handsome - I never realised it was a real person!

Abigail wrote: "Togare would go over well in my hometown of West Hollywood, California! What fun that you found that photo, Judy!"

Thanks Abigail! He has a film star look, and one of the websites I looked at said he modeled his look on Douglas Fairbanks Sr. I expect Erica had a pin-up on her wall.

Susan wrote: "Try as I might, I really can't seem to like Inspector Grant..."

Sorry to hear that Susan... I do rather like him in this because of the way he keeps questioning himself and gets so bound up in the case.

Judy wrote: "Susan wrote: "Try as I might, I really can't seem to like Inspector Grant..."

Sorry to hear that Susan... I do rather like him in this because of the way he keeps questioning himself and gets so b..."

I don't dislike him but perhaps, it's because there's nothing distinctive about him that I don't enjoy his adventures as much... Since this was better than book 1, I am looking forward to see whether he gets better in the next one.

I'm not sure about my thoughts on Grant either. In one respect, we know very little about him, and he doesn't have a very positive personality, like a Poirot or Wimsey. On the other hand, I don't much care for protagonists where so much time is taken up on their angst--they drink, their wife left them, there is a terrible secret in their past, etc.

Pghfan wrote: "I'm not sure about my thoughts on Grant either. In one respect, we know very little about him, and he doesn't have a very positive personality, like a Poirot or Wimsey. On the other hand, I don't m..."

There does need to be a compromise, somewhere between bland as dishwater and a basket case. I personally prefer the more upbeat personalities. Though, getting away from GA, J K Rowling's Cormoran Strike has a lot of angst and I like that series.

Sandy wrote: "Pghfan wrote: "I'm not sure about my thoughts on Grant either. In one respect, we know very little about him, and he doesn't have a very positive personality, like a Poirot or Wimsey. On the other ..."
I like the Cormoran Strike books as well- have read the first two.

Pghfan wrote: "I'm not sure about my thoughts on Grant either. In one respect, we know very little about him, and he doesn't have a very positive personality, like a Poirot or Wimsey. On the other hand, I don't m..."

Perhaps he's too "ordinary"...

I think I like him because he is ordinary and not a policeman who thinks "I'm a detective,so I must be right"

I like that too, Jill - the way he keeps questioning and second-guessing himself. I also identify with the amount of coffee he drinks - though I have cut back on caffeine!

A lot of interesting thoughts on the nature of celebrity in this book, with all the hangers-on that Christine acquires and the huge distance between her youth and her Hollywood fame. I was trying to think of British actresses who really became film stars around this time - Greer Garson sprang to mind but there must be others.

Although it is not a mystery, I kept thinking of Theatre by W. Somerset Maugham, which is about fame and an ageing actress. Not that Chris was ageing, but more the people that surrounded her.

Susan wrote: "Although it is not a mystery, I kept thinking of Theatre by W. Somerset Maugham, which is about fame and an ageing actress. Not that Chris was ageing, but more the people that surrou..."

I've seen the film adaptation of that one but am still to read the book. It was quite a good one.

Jill wrote: "I also found Erica very interesting, as she made other young girls we have read about lately , seem so flat.."

I like her too, which I think Tey intended, but she ... well, I'll save it for the spoiler thread.

Sandy wrote: "There does need to be a compromise, somewhere between bland as dishwater and a basket case. I personally prefer the more upbeat personalities."

It occurred to me that there should be a difference between police detectives and private detectives, especially amateurs like Miss Marple. By the time a police officer gets to detective status, he will have spend a lot of time within a very formally structured environment which is designed, like a military force, to subvert his more dramatic or more free-thinking side into a smoothly functioning part of a large organization. He will have gone through many training sessions intended to make him (or her, of course) think in a way consistent with the practices of the force. Of course every detective will still have individual quirks, strengths, and weaknesses, but I think a good author will recognize that the police detective has to function within a set of rules, principles, and training experiences, and write accordingly.

Everyman wrote: "Sandy wrote: "There does need to be a compromise, somewhere between bland as dishwater and a basket case. I personally prefer the more upbeat personalities."

It occurred to me that there should be..."

That makes sense but the police detective we read about (I think this is of course the more present-day ones) have something that makes them stand out even if it is their backstory or their personal lives that writers also weave in-which is not the case with Grant since we only see him work in which also while he is a good policeman, there's nothing standout- perhaps that's why the difficulty relating to him or liking him- we barely KNOW him.

Interesting discussion - I feel we are getting to know him more in this book than in the first one, but it's just struck me I think tbere is actually more about his personal background in that one. I agree on the whole the police can't be as quirky as the amateurs who can be a bit larger than life.

Judy wrote: "Interesting discussion - I feel we are getting to know him more in this book than in the first one, but it's just struck me I think tbere is actually more about his personal background in that one...."

I think so too- that's why I was wondering whether he improves more in book 3.

There are only six Grant books, so the series is a third done. His character should be appearing. The only other one I've read is The Daughter of Time and that was quite awhile ago and all I remember of Grant is that he was injured.
There was over a twenty year gap between #1 and #6 and I'm guessing Grant was not Tey's first priority. GR's bio says she wrote plays and other things under another name.

There are some memorable characters in this book, especially Bobby and Erica - I can see why Hitchcock chose them as the focus of his film. Hoping to watch that this weekend.

Judy wrote: "There are some memorable characters in this book, especially Bobby and Erica - I can see why Hitchcock chose them as the focus of his film. Hoping to watch that this weekend."
I liked this book better. Grant is a little more flushed out and there are some rather pithy comments on life and people in general. I, too was disappointed with the end.

I can't seem to find any reference to the film by Hitchcock. Is it the same title. and is it only in Britain?