Time Travel discussion

Version Control by Dexter Palmer

(495 pages, 2016)

GoodReads blurb:Rebecca Wright has reclaimed her life, finding her way out of her grief and depression following a personal tragedy years ago. She spends her days working in customer support for the internet dating site where she first met her husband. But she has a strange, persistent sense that everything around her is somewhat off-kilter: she constantly feels as if she has walked into a room and forgotten what she intended to do there; on TV, the President seems to be the wrong person in the wrong place; her dreams are full of disquiet. Meanwhile, her husband's decade-long dedication to his invention, the causality violation device (which he would greatly prefer you not call a “time machine”) has effectively stalled his career and made him a laughingstock in the physics community. But he may be closer to success than either of them knows or can possibly imagine.

Version Control is about a possible near future, but it’s also about the way we live now. It’s about smart phones and self-driving cars and what we believe about the people we meet on the Internet. It’s about a couple, Rebecca and Philip, who have experienced a tragedy, and about how they help — and fail to help — each other through it.

Awesome!

Really looking forward to this as well.

Just picked up the book from the library; I'm ready!

Note the odd dates... we don't start until May 15! :)

What are the dates for this book??

May 15 through July 14.

Two months for reading and discussions.

Not in my uk library unfortunately. And not listed on Overdrive. Not on Kindle to buy either :( oh well...ill keep searching, i feel a need to join in a group read finally after so long.

That's odd it's not on kindle in the U.K. but it's on audible.

I have to say that i'm finding the pace of this glacial.

My library just let me know they've got it for me, so I hope to pick it up and start w/in the next few days.

But we still have Last Year on the group's home page...

I picked up a copy from the library today. I will start it soon.

I read this a few months back and loved it. One of those books where you aren't quite sure whee it's gong, and then at the end of all falls into place and you're like "woah..."

First impression - fat. I hope it's not a slow or challenging (artsy-fartsy or intricate) read. But I will read carefully, thanks to Michele's comment (thank you!).

I just remembered this was selected and wanted to swing by to see if anyone has started reading it. When I read it (late last year) I got it from the library and had no idea what to expect, but I just found all the little bits here and there really fascinating - the conversations, the thoughts of characters, and especially the way the author's observations were used to make the details so interesting. I actually think I found the pieces greater than the whole, lol... the overall story was interesting to me, but what stuck with me the most is all the moments in between.

As far as time travel stories go; it's not really what I would call a satisfying time travel story because it seems so incidental. I think that even though that's an important aspect of this story, it's mainly a mechanism for delivering another story.

I just finished this yesterday. Although it touched on many different topics, it did not quite add up to a coherent whole for me. The pieces were interesting but the overall whole lacked something.

To use a term from computing, I found the "context switches" between the different time lines to be awkward. I was reading an e-book and kept having to go back and make sure that I had not skipped over multiple pages, each time such a switch happened. Part of the problem was that the author seems to have wanted the reader to be confused, at least for a while whenever such a switch happened. I do not know how I would have fixed this, but I found it at least slightly jarring.

A significant part of this discomfort springs from the lack of clarity in what the genre of the book is. The majority of the book reads like a "literary" genre. I went into the book expecting harder science fiction and time travel to be the major ingredients. This does not make this a bad book. It just was confusing. I read widely but I almost always know what I am getting before I start. Here, I did not. Read my comments in that light.

I probably wouldn't have even bothered finishing this if it wasn't the group read. It started off just about okay, but didn't go anywhere and by the time I got to about page 200 I really wanted to give up , but rushed through the rest of the book quite quickly just to see where it went. However, the more I read, the less I cared for it, and in the end parts of it even annoyed me and had me rolling my eyes.

Too long, too slow and not enough SF, let alone TT for me. I didn't care for any of these characters (poor development and back stories), some of them being complete arses as well as generally unbelievable in how they acted. Too much focus on uninteresting topics such as dating agencies and social media, as well as some millennial angst thrown in for good measure. Also repeated references to drinking culture and race issues came up but didn't really go anywhere or add to the story arc. All over the places for me i'm afraid.

Oh dear. I do have trouble with general fiction that has just enough SF to get chosen by groups like this one. It has to be really really good, or else choose to be either GF or SF....

Dean wrote: "I have to say that i'm finding the pace of this glacial."

I agree. The first 80 pages or so were very boring for me. After that though the story takes off. Hope it continues like that. (Trying hard not to read some of the comments on this thread so as to keep my enthusiasm up!) :)

I dunno. Some ppl are going to find the details about race issues, gender disparities, dating rituals for millennials, all that stuff, pretty interesting. Tbh, I kinda did. Rebecca's parents, otoh, I don't understand them at all. Well. So many ideas here. So much to (maybe) think about.

The thing is, the author does most of the thinking for us. And that's what makes it such a fat & slow & flawed book.

For example: I was happy with the introduction of autonomous cars, the suggestion of how it would work out to have them take over as the primary, but not exclusive, method of transportation. But then the author revisited the idea several times, going into depth about his predictions about how they're going to affect commuters' habits etc... effectively stifling my sense of wonder.

When I finally finished it I was done. I've nothing left to enjoy about the experience. It's smart, it's got interesting bits, but it doesn't have heart or resonance. And I seriously doubt it has staying power - after all, this near future will come to pass, somehow or another, and we won't be interested in one guy's ideas about it. Iow, I predict it'll be a quaint artifact of its time, and no more.

Some great lines, though, in addition to the whole bunch of ideas. If you like big books with a bit of literary value beyond SF, give it try. And you'll get stuff like Alicia, the only female physicist, who happens to be white, talking to the African-American security guard, miming a phone: '"Hello. You're not going to believe this, but I've got a code thirty-seven... Yes... Yes! His name's Spivey.... Yeah, that's him... Yeah... Okay.... Okay, thanks. I'll catch you at the potluck on Tuesday." She dropped her hand. "I just wanted to get clearance to speak for all Caucasian women on this issue."'

(Hey, if we could have the book added to the subject of the thread, we could see at a glance who rated it with how many stars. I rated it 3 stars, but in another mood I might have gone as high as four.)

This book is too slow for me. I made it about 60 pages and I didn't care about any character or anything that was happening. I'm giving up. See you next month.

yeah, not a lot of plot or real authentic/ empathetic characters... but lots of nifty SF ideas, like old school SF, which was what I stuck it out for....

Cheryl wrote: "I dunno. Some ppl are going to find the details about race issues, gender disparities, dating rituals for millennials, all that stuff, pretty interesting. Tbh, I kinda did."

Cheryl, I did too. For me the detail didn't slow things down, it made them richer.

I actually liked the characters -- they were understated, which I liked. Sci fi too often has "stock" characters where you know pretty much exactly what they're going to do, and they do it with great energy and gusto. These people were more, I don't know, just normal people, and surprised me again and again.

As to the context switches, there again, I liked that piece. It gave me kind of the same feeling as when I watch Mulholland Drive, where you see a scene multiple times and it's skewed a little differently each time.

I figured that the resolution would somehow involve the "time machine" (I know, I know, the main characters hate to have it called that lol) but I didn't foresee the complete picture. Actually I didn't get the complete picture until about 15 minutes after I finished the book when the last piece clicked into place :)

Seems like this was a bit of a marmite book.

I really didn't like it and am looking forward to the next one now (hopefully Spin), but glad some others on here found it enjoyable & interesting.

I finished this today. I really liked it even though it had some parts that were way too drawn out. I think the author had a lot of ideas he needed to get out of his head and tried to cram them all into this book. They are fascinating ideas. I think the "time travel" aspect is pretty unique. I am not sure I've read anything that has that particular theory laid out. My son read his first book, The Dream of Perpetual Motion, and it is his favorite book of all time so I will have to check it out and see how it compares.

I can't say I'm surprised by the comments, even though I loved this book. I think that if you don't find the moments in between developments interesting, the overall book probably just won't work for you.

I am almost halfway done and I like the book so far and I am enjoying finding out where the story is going.

I read another book last year that also mentioned (view spoiler)[needing to know the exact place the earth was in the past in outer space since the earth spins and rotates around the sun. I am pretty sure both books used the example of going back in time and finding yourself in outer space before suffocating. (hide spoiler)]

Nancy, any chance that book is All Our Wrong Todays? I am listening to it now, and it has made me think of Version Control many times. I was thinking that it would probably be more appealing to people who feel Version Control is too slow and scattered, but it still has a lot of interesting observations and a level of thoughtfulness I appreciate.

Gertie wrote: "Nancy, any chance that book is All Our Wrong Todays? I am listening to it now, and it has made me think of Version Control many times. I was thinking that it would probably be more ..."

Yep, that's the one! That's a pretty good book.

I'm quite pleasantly surprised by it (All Our...), really enjoying it.

I am at 72% and I am really enjoying the book. I like the extra details the author gives. It makes the book more interesting and that he put thought into it and not just throwing in autonomous cars because it would be cool to have them type of thing.

The first third of most books is a build up of what's to come and giving the characters and place some history so I don't understand why people give up on a book so early.

I finished last night. I really liked this book. I thought it was smartly done. I liked that it wasn't a book about time travelers jumping here and there being chased or chasing someone. For me that is just becoming over done. I liked the premise that (view spoiler)[when you come back you lost all your previous memories so how do you know you time travelled. (hide spoiler)].

Looks like I am one of the ones who ended up loving this book, despite its dearth of time travel story moments. I was enchanted with its near-future ideas, its quirky and understated characters, and its deceptively profound take on the experience of time travel.

And I can totally see why some people would hate it. It did seem a bit slow to me, and the dramatic tension introduced by the idea that "things didn't seem right" in the first page was not enough to hold the average user for over 100 pages until the initial minor payoff (view spoiler)[when we realize the machine is working and no one knows it (hide spoiler)]. If you don't care about autonomous cars, or why black guys would not want to time travel, or the insane pressures of women in science, or the wackiness of Internet dating algorithms, or the impenetrable conversations of folks on the autism spectrum - which I luckily do and all of these tangents gave me little thrills - then you are going to be dismayed by how long it takes to get anywhere in this book and why you were duped into reading something which is clearly not about time travel.

So, I'm new to this group and have a question: if we start talking about the ending and other spoiler-related ideas/comments, do we need to continue the spoiler tags? Does that last for the entire two months or do we go all spoilery at some point?

We used to go all spoilery at some point but with the new two month format, I'm not sure when that is.

I really liked the book. Did you notice after (view spoiler)[Rebecca went into the machine, she didn't think things "didn't seem right" anymore? (hide spoiler)].

It's still time travel but not what most people expect. Which might be why I liked it. Jumping through various points in time and chasing or being chased by evil doers is becoming old hat. So I like something new and different.

Good question - what's the usual protocol for spoilers in group discussions here?

Michael I think your perception was like mine, it's all that chatter and curiosities between the bones of the book that make it so special.

I love the angle of the black characters, and found Spivey to be pretty hilarious, and thought his cleverness was underrated by the people around him.

Alicia pissed me off. What is it about people making excuses for assholes (especially attractive ones) but being so unforgiving when a usually nice person has a moment of nastiness? Remember the "gotcha" scene? I mean, the balls on her! This was a disappointing part for me, because I wanted Rebecca to woman up and basically punch her or at least get in a nasty jibe.

Philip, talk about poor husband material.

Okay I could go on and on. Usually my reviews are shamefully short, but I went all out on this one.

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I didn't like Alicia one little bit. Okay, I didn't like the book full stop, but most characters were just uninteresting to me while I really disliked Alicia.

Thing was, I'm not sure that was what the author was going for. I always had the impression he was trying to portray her as quirky but loveable... In my mind I didn't picture her as attractive (physically) either, but maybe I missed that i the book.

T'was the type of character that needed to dress up as a postman and come knocking at my house to meet my dog.

Funny you should say that, she didn't sound attractive to me either, but the men in her life really seemed to think she was. Her description and the reactions of those around her didn't quite line up.

Gertie wrote: "Alicia pissed me off. What is it about people making excuses for assholes (especially attractive ones) but being so unforgiving when a usually nice person has a moment of nastiness? Remember the "gotcha" scene? I mean, the balls on her! This was a disappointing part for me, because I wanted Rebecca to woman up and basically punch her or at least get in a nasty jibe."

Yes, she was a work of art all right. But completely realistic in my opinion. That whole lab has pretty poor social skills, but Alicia packaged that with a lot of viciousness and entitlement which seemed to me to be defenses against her ostracism as a woman in the physics world. The double whammy of her mind and her body ensured she would get a free pass with the heterosexual men in the group (the same sexism that keeps most women out, ironically, allows her in).

And although I couldn't believe Rebecca's reaction at first, I think it was realistic, too. I mean, what kind of person beats on a woman (view spoiler)[who just discovered you having sex with their husband (hide spoiler)]? It is so beyond the pale, and antisocial, that you would not know how to respond except to extricate yourself as quickly as possible!

I'm ready to talk shop when we are ready. I can use spoiler tags, but at some point that will become a bit tedious. For example, I totally bought into the idea that (view spoiler)[a time traveler would overwrite their own memories if they changed their own past - yes, it all happened differently, so they all remember it differently. But I felt like it naturally followed that they would indeed remember the little spider robot coming out of the chamber when they turned on the wormhole. (Just like the rich investor speculated, which was why he pulled their funding). The past would change so that the spider came out for an hour and then returned, and they would all remember it that way. Did anybody else find that contradictory? (hide spoiler)]

I thought (view spoiler)[nothing came out of the chamber when it was turned on and that's why the rich guy pulled out and cancelled their funding. I've been trying to figure out why no one saw anyone come out of the chamber in the past. Didn't Alicia say about a dozen people went in? So the chamber couldn't have opened to the time at which it was turned on. So what time did it open to? I wanted someone to attach a camera to Arachne (that was the name of the robot, right?)before sending in. (hide spoiler)].

Nancy wrote: "I thought [spoilers removed]."

Yeah, that's what confuses me. When they opened the front (fixed) end of the wormhole, the monitoring began, so (view spoiler)[if anything came out of it, they would see it. Somehow, all the people that went back were making changes, and then returning, and forgetting what changes they made, and yet if they made changes, then the history they created had to include them making the changes, so the history had to include them coming out of the wormhole. It seems like a contradiction or at least something that I wish had been addressed in the narrative... (hide spoiler)]

Maybe some one else caught what happened and we missed it and they will come and explain.

I'm trying to think this through... (view spoiler)[because when Rebecca from the past called her husband to pick up the son, she was crying and he didn't know why she was crying. She remembered being told by her future self not to go pick her son from school. When her future self gets back into the machine the future has changed and her memories of being told by another version of herself is gone. The only thing I can think of is she created a new branch when she called her husband and the memory of meeting herself is now gone but why don't they remember what they did when they went in to the chamber? Would creating a new branch erase that memory as well? (hide spoiler)]

If you did remember, then you'd had two sets of memories, right?

Nancy wrote: "Maybe some one else caught what happened and we missed it and they will come and explain.

I'm trying to think this through... [spoilers removed]"

I noticed the crying, too, and it seemed significant but was never explained. On the one hand, the way Mr. Palmer told the story was brilliant because (view spoiler)[we are always in the new version of reality, we never know what happens when time travelers go back. We are left to fill in the possibilities. But on the other hand it is frustrating because it leaves a lot of holes and there is no way to guess what actually happened.

Notice even Rebecca couldn't figure out what she herself was doing: when she came back into the new version where her son was alive but her husband was dead, she couldn't figure out why she would have gone back in time but not saved her husband, so she went back again to fix it. She had no idea that he had not been dead in the previous version, and him dying was a random side effect. (Or maybe on purpose if her original self was so mad at her husband that she thought he might die instead and planned it that way, maybe that was the crying bit?)

There are a few ways to do time travel memories. The only one I can think of where the person remembered both branches of the timeline was the movie The Butterfly Effect. I know a lot of stories where the traveler remembers the old version, but not the new version (like when Marty McFly is surprised about the changes in his family when he returns to the future). But this might be my first one where no one remembers the old versions. And this seems to be because those versions don't exist anymore, it is as if they never happened. The new timeline makes some wacky adjustments to try to backfill an explanation (like in the final version where there is no way Rebecca can be in the laboratory because she is already dead, so the Universe adjusts by having molecules spontaneously shift from all over the Earth. - which actually doesn't make any sense to me because she was never in the lab in the new version so there is no mass for the Universe to conserve. I mean, Rebecca's husband wasn't in the lab in the previous version, so how could he be in the lab in the new version to hear Rebecca's body dropping?? (hide spoiler)]

I like the idea that the past version no longer exists. Which would explain not remember two version.

I like how we didn't know reality kept changing to a new version. I didn't realize it until she came out of the chamber (view spoiler)[and now Kate is still dating what's his name. I had to go back and double check that she broke up with him to make sure I didn't miss something. Then I started thinking about it while I continued reading. Did you notice at the beginning of the bookmthe president would make a little speech before a TV program (but they were from a set of canned speeches). Later he is interrupting your dinner at a restaurant and buying everyone dessert. Eventually he is butting into your telephone conversations. I thought it was brilliant that Palmer did that. It was so subtly done. (hide spoiler)]

I did love the feeling that only the reader was in a position to know what was going on. I started noticing things were (view spoiler)[changing to new versions around page 104 when the robot came back and suddenly the time was different but they didn't notice, because in their version of events the robot left an hour later. (hide spoiler)] It was pretty subtle, though, so I wasn't sure how many people would notice it.

I hadn't thought about the intrusiveness of the President and how it might be (view spoiler)[changing with versions. We see the two big changes in the world each time Rebecca goes in, but there must have been multiple other changes going on the whole time before her first jump, because different scientists and military folks were testing the chamber. (hide spoiler)]

And I particularly liked the general's assessment of dystopia scenarios and how they (view spoiler)[pretty much mapped what had been happening. So I think we are being led to believe Rebecca's last trip fixed a lot of that? (hide spoiler)]

Michael wrote: "...If you don't care about autonomous cars, or why black guys would not want to time travel, or the insane pressures of women in science, or the wackiness of Internet dating algorithms, or the impenetrable conversations of folks on the autism spectrum - which I luckily do and all of these tangents gave me little thrills..."

LOL! Me too :) This book pushed soooo many of my buttons, and all in good ways.

Nancy wrote: "Did you notice at the beginning of the bookmthe president would make a little speech before a TV program (but they were from a set of canned speeches). Later he is interrupting your dinner at a restaurant and buying everyone dessert. Eventually he is butting into your telephone conversations. I thought it was brilliant that Palmer did that. It was so subtly done."

I agree -- those little touches were great. So subtle that sometimes they're enough to throw the reader off without even knowing why, so the reader ends up sharing that feeling of "Hang on, that's not right...is it?" Which is kind of meta :)

I wish I'd gotten this read before the deadline because I have a lot to say about it. Since we're not reading anything else currently, I thought I would post here because I just finished the novel two days ago and spent a long time writing a review, which I'll post on Goodreads. If anyone hasn't read this book yet, I have a recommendation for you:
Start with Chapter 13
Then go to Chapter 5 and read from there (Skip 1-4)
Read 5-9, 11-15, 17-19, 21-24 (Skip 10,16,20)
Read 30, 31, 38 and the Coda to the end (Skip 25-29, 32-37)
If you do this, you will shorten the book by 200 pages and still get 99% of the story because the book is full of digressions. If you want to look at three excellent digressions, read Ch. 29 about pathological science then Ch 26 about Carson, then Ch 20,28,33, 35, 36 about avatars. In the end I decided the time travel plot really doesn't work, so maybe you'd be better off just reading the digressions. The best ones are in Chapters 5, 7, 9, 17, 18, 21, 22, 24, 26, 28, 29, 33, 35, and 36.

You can still post what you think. It doesn't matter if the discussion has ended. They never really end.