The Sword and Laser discussion

Let me preface this by saying that Frank Herbert's Dune is by and far my favorite book. This is relevant because there are 6 books in the Dune series. There was supposed to be 7. But, Frank Herbert died before he could complete the seventh book and his kid wound up finishing the one book in the series with what amounts to 12 different books, which frankly aren't that good.

Now consider that the average lifespan of an American male is a hair under 76 years. George RR Martin is currently 65 years old. The song of Ice and Fire series is on pace to wrap up in 2023, 9 years from now. This will put Mr. Martin at 74 years of age. This places him a bit under the average lifespan of 76 but let's face it George isn't exactly a paragon of healthy living.

This is not to say that I want Mr. Martin to hurry up with writing his books, nor should he abandon any of his other activities that may be interfering with his writing. That path only leads to shitty books, burnt out authors and a rather indignant Neil Gaiman. Instead I am suggesting that George take up some light cardio once in a while. Maybe a daily walk around the block in the morning, some water calisthenics, maybe the odd game of badminton. A little healthier lifestyle might help push him a little towards the right on the lifespan bell curve and allow us to all enjoy The Song of Ice and Fire books as they were originally intended.

If George RR Martin should decide that taking up some light excersice is not for him, I will endeavor to promote another path towards seeing his life's work successfully completed in my next post "George RR Martin should really cultivate a close personal friendship with Brandon Sanderson"

Thumbs up.

Do you have any information as to his current exercise habits? Being overweight does not preclude being in the habit of doing light cardio.

I can sympathize with wanting any beloved artist/writer/etc. to live a long, healthy (and productive) life. That being said I don't think that we are entitled to make those kinds of judgements or presriptions just because someone is a celebrity.

Unless they are reality TV stars, in which case they have opened that door themselves.

If you are truly concerned for his health I think imho the best thing you can do is not add to the anxiety and pressure he must already be feeling to complete this series.

I'm all for people exercising, but this is clearly a poorly-disguised "Hurry up and finish ASOIAF before you die, George" post.

That being the case, refer to Gaiman's GRRM is not your bitch comment. Between the books and the show, the man has brought us hundreds of hours of entertainment and enjoyment, and he can live his life as he pleases.

In the event that the novels end up unfinished, I'd have to think someone like Daniel Abraham, as a friend and past collaborator, would be much more likely to step in than Sanderson. But hasn't he said that if he dies, he doesn't want anyone else doing it?

Ben wrote: "I'm all for people exercising, but this is clearly a poorly-disguised "Hurry up and finish ASOIAF before you die, George" post.

That being the case, refer to Gaiman's GRRM is not your bitch comme..."

Yes, I agree with you regarding Abraham. But I'd not heard that Martin doesn't want anyone else finishing it if he dies before it's complete. That would be too bad, but it's his work, his decision.

Game of Thrones author George R.R. Martin rules out sharing Westeros

I guess he's not specifically talking about if he dies with the main story unfinished, but you can kind of read between the lines that he's not really comfortable with anyone else writing stories set in Westeros.

Ben wrote: "Game of Thrones author George R.R. Martin rules out sharing Westeros

I guess he's not specifically talking about if he dies with the main story unfinished, but you can kind of read between the lin..."

Yeah, you're right, it's certainly implied.

You know maybe he lives to be 105 and finishes ASoIaF and another 5 books series and tomorrow Sanderson gets hit by a buss and we'll never know what all that Cosmere stuff actually means. Shit happens.

This just to say that: "Hurry up and finish ASOIAF before you die, George" comments really annoy me. And I say this as a Wheel of Time fan.

Besides that Sanderson is just about the worst currently writing Epic Fantasist to continue Martin's work. I love his work, but their writing styles aren't compatible at all.

I agree that if anyone had to do it, Daniel Abraham would be the one.

But I'm pretty sure George'll finish it himself.

Stress is bad for George.

In fairness, stress is bad for everybody.

Stressed spelled backwards is desserts.

To everyone who says "GRRM is not your bitch" I'll say he sure didn't mind making us, the fans, his bitch by dragging the story waaay too long, writing less and less about the major protogonists and building up this tension in the story almost to its breaking point. And now, he makes us wait and wait and wait. It is only fair we feel frustrated and wonder if we'll ever be able to read the rest.

Rasnac wrote: "To everyone who says "GRRM is not your bitch" I'll say he sure didn't mind making us, the fans, his bitch by dragging the story waaay too long, writing less and less about the major protogonists an..."

GRRM is definitely not your bitch, and you are not his. He doesn't have to write books, and you don't have to read them.

Tamahome wrote: "Stressed spelled backwards is desserts."

Also a bad thing in excess...

While I acknowledge that GRRM is not my bitch and he can take as long as he likes to finish the series. I would also take it as a huge insult to the fans if he didn't finish it or at least leave enough notes for someone else to do it for him.

The fans have invested a lot financially, emotionally and time into this series.

Sorry, GRRM is not my bitch, but with that series, I am his. There, I said it and I'm proud.

There's a t-shirt in that.

Tassie Dave wrote: "While I acknowledge that GRRM is not my bitch and he can take as long as he likes to finish the series. I would also take it as a huge insult to the fans if he didn't finish it or at least leave en..."

As Hunter S. Thompson said, "Buy the ticket, take the ride."

That actually applies more to Martin finishing than the readers waiting faithfully, Matthew.

You know, it must be a very very odd thing to have so many people praying you don't die before you finish something. In GRRM's shoes, I think I would find it morbidly hilarious, so much that I'd be tempted to stall and stall and stall finishing, and then put out stories of heart attacks just to mess with people. Fate being thus tempted, I would probably then die in some horrible accident, but I would be comforted by the cries of distraught fans realising they will never know!!! Mwahaha!

I'm with you, Ruth.

If I were GRRM, I would make a point to take selfies with double bacon cheeseburgers and tweet about fried Snickers bars from county fairs. I'd post the YouTube for KFC's "Double Down" on 'Not A Blog', and sing the praises of the McRib.

Ultimately we can't control how quickly Martin - or any author- finishes a book. What we CAN control is whether or not to continue our support with our dollars. For me, I stopped reading ASOIF at book three. I won't continue the series until after it's completed - if ever. There are just too many other terrific stories being written to fret over Martin's pace.

The best troll would be to leave it unfinished so all the rabid fans go apeshit over nothing.

Maybe, in the unfortunate event, his executors will go open a hidden vault in which will be a single piece of paper reading:

[EDITOR: Please insert this after the final completed paragraph of the manuscript in progress, then proceed to publish]

Then the sun exploded and they all died.

The End.

Wow this is rude. How do you know he doesn't already do light cardio?

Rasnac wrote: "To everyone who says "GRRM is not your bitch" I'll say he sure didn't mind making us, the fans, his bitch by dragging the story waaay too long, writing less and less about the major protogonists and building up this tension in the story almost to its breaking point. And now, he makes us wait and wait and wait. It is only fair we feel frustrated and wonder if we'll ever be able to read the rest. "

I agree.

However, I think fans of this series should reconcile themselves to the fact Martin is never going to finish it. He's now added yet another book to it because he keeps padding the story.

As an art historian with 12 years of art criticism experience, I should say that one of the most important qualities in an artist is to know when to stop. I am afraid this is not the strongest quality of GRRM.

From what I've read, the book 8 thing was a joke from Martin's agent.

Also, the right place to stop is an aesthetic judgment, and therefore a subjective one.

I'm eager to read more of aSoIaF, but I also know there are more things out there than I'll ever be able to read, even among the things that interest me, so I don't complain, I just move on to the next thing.

I don't think genuine concern for the well-being of an artist you love, an older man clearly not in the best of health, constitutes disrespect or intrusive, 'creepy' fandom.

Were GRRM a heavy smoker it would not be thought out of line to voice worries about that. Obesity and C-V conditions are just as serious.

Sure, he's a grown man and it's his life. I'd like the duration and quality of that life maximized, and I'd say that even if I hated his books. It's just basic humanist ethics.

Terez wrote: "Ultimately we can't control how quickly Martin - or any author- finishes a book. What we CAN control is whether or not to continue our support with our dollars. For me, I stopped reading ASOIF at book three. I won't continue the series until after it's completed - if ever. There are just too many other terrific stories being written to fret over Martin's pace."

Trike wrote: "However, I think fans of this series should reconcile themselves to the fact Martin is never going to finish it. He's now added yet another book to it because he keeps padding the story. "

Both of these comments sum up my personal feelings on ASOIAF. I've made up my own ending already because I just don't think Martin will ever finish it.

Dara wrote: "Terez wrote: "Ultimately we can't control how quickly Martin - or any author- finishes a book. What we CAN control is whether or not to continue our support with our dollars. For me, I stopped read..."

It's funny, the producers of the tv show have alluded that Martin has revealed the series ending to them. I tend to believe this because the show is rapidly catching up to the novels. I think the tv show will end before the novels are done.

Terez wrote: "it's funny, the producers of the tv show have alluded that Martin has revealed the series ending to them. I tend to believe this because the show is rapidly catching up to the novels. I think the tv show will end before the novels are done. "

I agree. It's also doing a good job of trimming the fat, so to speak.

For those who have stopped reading at one book or another after starting. How is that better than waiting for him to finish before continuing? You're still sitting around with questions and unresolved plotlines. Just further back than everyone else.

For me, the last two books written were kind of boring and wandered and took the characters in uninteresting or unbelievable paths. I have an interest in knowing how it all ends, but I will be perfectly happy to have the show cut out big chunks and just wrap it up.

Eventually I'll probably read whatever else he writes, just for some closure, but I've pretty much stopped caring about the books.

I find the show much more entertaining. My roommate loves to go off on how the show is changing things from the books, and I keep saying, "Oh, really? I don't care. I can't even remember the books. This episode was good."

I hope if Tom & Veronica ever have a chance to have him on the show again, he doesn't stop by and read the forums first. He might be offended/annoyed enough to turn down being a guest.

Christopher wrote: "For those who have stopped reading at one book or another after starting. How is that better than waiting for him to finish before continuing? You're still sitting around with questions and unresol..."

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, I've resigned myself to the fact I may never know how the novels end - and I'm okay with that. Again, there are so many other great stories out there waiting to be discovered. Plus, there is the HBO series that I actually enjoy more than the books because of its more streamlined narrative structure.

Kind of funny, but...how do you deal with other serial fiction? If you read comic books, they never end. TV series' will go on and on until the audience drops. Sometimes an initial series will be good, say the original Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, and then the followups not nearly so interesting. Martin could easily decide to leave some portion unfinished and do yet another series with some of the characters - if any are left alive, that is! I feel like all any author owes anyone is to write what they like. Being a fan does not give us any rights.

"Martin is not our bitch." "Being a fan does not give us any rights." These sentiments are very true. However what is just as true is fans aren't obligated to stick around either. When a story, regardless of the medium, fails to entertain, fans can opt to move on to one that does. If others make a different choice, that's fine too.

Caitlin wrote: "I hope if Tom & Veronica ever have a chance to have him on the show again, he doesn't stop by and read the forums first. He might be offended/annoyed enough to turn down being a guest."

Yes I know I'd be offended if people love my work and can't wait until they can read the next one and they hope I continue living. ;-)

As much as I want to see the ending, I genuinely want to see George complete the work that will define him to later generations.

This will be the "Lord of the Rings" of our generation.

I'm not talking about him finishing the book. I'm taking about the derogatory assumptions that have been made about his health and exercise habits, which are not anyone's business. You can't tell someone's health history by looking at them and they have no moral obligation to be striving for better health anyways.
I know people love to shame fat people, but that's all it is. A stranger commenting on someone's appearance and supposed state of health does absolutely nothing to help that person.

Tassie Dave wrote: This will be the "Lord of the Rings" of our generation. "

I actually think this is the Wheel of Time or War for the Chtorr of our generation.

Michele wrote: "For me, the last two books written were kind of boring and wandered and took the characters in uninteresting or unbelievable paths. I have an interest in knowing how it all ends, but I will be perfectly happy to have the show cut out big chunks and just wrap it up.

Eventually I'll probably read whatever else he writes, just for some closure, but I've pretty much stopped caring about the books.

I find the show much more entertaining. My roommate loves to go off on how the show is changing things from the books, and I keep saying, "Oh, really? I don't care. I can't even remember the books. This episode was good." "

Same here. I bailed out of the novels a while ago, to the point where I don't even know which one I read last. Fourth one, I think, which was about a decade ago. The problem was it just spiraled out of control, with no one telling Martin "No." Same thing happened to George Lucas with the prequels. Too much stuff that felt wrong compared to what had gone before, with extraneous story that did nothing to advance the plot.

The show is cutting out all the repetitive parts, streamlining the story.

"I'm taking about the derogatory assumptions that have been made about his health and exercise habits, which are not anyone's business. You can't tell someone's health history by looking at them and they have no moral obligation to be striving for better health anyways."

I agree they have no moral obligation to anyone but themselves - and possibly family members, depending on specifics - but it's not "derogatory assumptions" to note that a 65 yr old man carrying that much weight in adipose tissue is taking serious chances with his health.

Medically speaking, this is not a grey area. Soberly regarding the possible consequences of a bad diet and sedentary lifestyle is no more "shaming" than being concerned about the risks of tobacco to smokers - whether you're talking about a fried, relative or some writer you like.

I don't see how comparing inappropriately fat-shaming to inappropriately tobacco-shaming is supposed to help the argument. (Ahem.)

'Now consider that the average lifespan of an American male is a hair under 76 years'

Its 54 in certain parts of Glasgow where i live, count yourself fortunate!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_...

George wrote: ""Soberly regarding the possible consequences of a bad diet and sedentary lifestyle"

I would consider this fat shaming. Do you think we somehow don't know?

On the same subject, it was nice to hear in David Weber's interview that he's fully aware of his advancing age and doesn't want to start anything he cannot expect finish.

Why not even exercise will undo the harm of sitting all day—and what you can do about it (via digg)

http://qz.com/223160/why-not-even-exe...