The Evolution of Science Fiction discussion

What are you reading now that was published in or has to do with SF in this time period?

I'm reading Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.. I'm enjoying it quite a bit - it's my first by Vonnegut. I should be done in a few days and when I finish I'm going to start Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? by Philip K. Dick. This is one of my favorite eras of SF, by the way. Also one of my favorite eras for crime/mystery writing.

Randy wrote: "I'm reading Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.. I'm enjoying it quite a bit - it's my first by Vonnegut. I should be done in a few days and when I finish I'm goin..."

I read Slaughterhouse-Five for the first time very recently, Randy - thoroughly enjoyed the writing style. Hope you enjoy it, too.

Slaughterhouse-Five is Vonnegut's best. And so it goes.

Now I really need to re-read Slaughterhouse 5. I read it in university a couple of years after it was first released. I also saw the movie. The best part of the movie was the sound track of music by Johann Sebastian Bach. So it goes.

Donna Rae, Buck, Rosemarie - thank you! I'm really enjoying it so far.

The Forever War by Joe Haldeman. Very well written and a pleasure to read. I'm devouring it.

I've read Old Man's War by John Scalzi and I must say it is very similar. As if Scalzi copied it. I know it is more complicated than that, but it still the feeling I have.

I've probably written this on here too many times before, but reading Starship Troopers, The Forever War, Armor, & then Old Man's War in that order is a really interesting experience. They're basically similar & the difference lies in the attitudes of the times.
IMO, none of them copied from their predecessors, just put their own spin on the same tale.

Heinlein was very pro military, served briefly in the Navy during peace time (early 1930s?) & Haldeman is a Vietnam vet who was thoroughly disillusioned by the unpopular war in the late 1960s. I don't know anything about the last 2 authors, but their themes aren't quite so straightforward either.

Jim wrote: "I've probably written this on here too many times before, but reading Starship Troopers, The Forever War, Armor, & then Old Man's War in that or..."

Heinlein was? I have read the Starship was anti-war.

I don't think anyone is pro-war, but Heinlein was certainly pro-military. The 1950s was very pro-US & military as proven by McCarthyism & a ton of propaganda. In Starship Troopers, people couldn't become a citizen without joining the military for at least one term because otherwise they weren't responsible enough to vote.

The Forever War was published shortly after the Ellsberg Report & Nixon's resignation. Haldeman's book showed a complete lack of faith in the military & gov't.

Rafael wrote: "Heinlein was? I have read the Starship was anti-war."

He was at a minimum pro-military. Starship Troopers is basically an essay on the virtues of militarism. Some go as far as saying it was pro-fascism. I definately can see it.

The film by Paul Verhoeven uses the Heinlein's universe and characters, but the film is a satire of militarism.

Jim wrote: "I don't know anything about the last 2 authors, but their themes aren't quite so straightforward either.

Scalzi published Old Man's War in 2005. 9/11 and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq certainly dominated the USian zeitgeist. The themes of a preemptive war or strike nd imperial expension/consolidation seems present in the novel.

I just finished my re-read of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? by Philip K. Dick. I originally read it 25 years ago so it was great to revisit this one now that I've read other books by PKD. There were lots of parts that were very similar to the movie which surprised me because I remembered the book being very different from the film. I'm very much looking forward to seeing Blade Runner 2049 this fall.

I finished The Forever War. It was very well written and quite engaging. I think I've figured the main difference between it and Scalzi's Old Man's War. Haldeman presents a meaningless wasteful war fought by a military that shouldn't have existed. Scalzi's military is necessary.

Each represent their time. Haldeman fought in the Vietnam war and Scalzi was a witness of 9/11 and the Afghan and Iraqi wars.

Haldeman has the superior work because of the quality of his prose.

I just started Ringworld by Larry Niven. It has really grabbed me right from the start. I'm seeing some similarities with Frederik Pohl and Robert A. Heinlein.

I just finished reading Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny with another group. Wonderful book! I really like how the tone of the book changes from that of a fable to somewhat more normal tones that are filled with such great subtlety & power. The simile at the beginning of the battle of Keenset is especially evocative, “The day of battle dawned pink as the fresh-bitten thigh of a maiden.”

The pace was great, too. The setup was interesting & then the last bit of the book encompasses 2 great battles where everything becomes clear & blows up. The very end proves me to be a romantic.

Unsurprisingly, I gave it another 5 star review here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Definitely one of the classics!

Jim wrote: "I just finished reading Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny with another group. Wonderful book! I really like how the tone of the book changes from that of a fable to somewhat..."

I'm reading it also. I had a hard time getting into it in the beginning and almost gave it up. I'm glad I didn't - after the first section it started getting better although there are still parts where Zelazny spends too much time describing the setting and it really drags down the narrative. Also, from what I understand, the story doesn't really clear up until the end so a first time reader like me may end up confused and disoriented at times. I have the strong suspicion that the book improves upon repeated readings.

Lord of Light, along with Jack of Shadows, really remind me a lot of Jack Vance's The Dying Earth. Anyone else see the similarities? The blend of science and magic, morally ambiguous characters, and even their writing styles seem similar.

Most of Zelazny's books improve on a reread. I'm usually fairly confused the first time through, just scrambling to keep up with what is going on. After that, I can relax & pay more attention to the scenery. Even after several reads, I can often find new things, too.

I never found Vance's style similar, although I'll agree with your other points.

Breaking Point by James Edwin Gunn was another good Librivox find. It should have been a Twilight Zone episode.

I was surprised to find that a story from 1972 isn't copyrighted.

Jim wrote: "Breaking Point by James Edwin Gunn was another good Librivox find. It should have been a Twilight Zone episode.

I was surprised to find that a story from 1972 isn'..."

Thanks Jim. I haven't heard a Librivox book in a long time; Had almost forgotten about it. I'm beginning to have trouble finding audiobooks I want to read at my library.

I'm reading The Wanderer by Fritz Leiber which won the 1965 Hugo Award, which I will assume was due to rampant drug use.

So I kicked The Wanderer because it was awful.

Now I'm on to Dragonflight by Anne McCaffrey and Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said by Philip K. Dick.

I read The Wanderer years ago. I agree with your assessment of the fact that it won an award. It was an okay book, but an award winner...?

Empire of the East by Fred Saberhagen is a fantasy set in a post apocalyptic SF world, a nice blend & a precursor to his 'Swords' series. I haven't read it for years & thought it aged very well. I gave it a 4 star review here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Randy wrote: "So I kicked The Wanderer because it was awful.

Now I'm on to Dragonflight by Anne McCaffrey and Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said by [author:Ph..."

I haven't read any Anne McCaffrey. I assumed it's fantasy rather than SF. How is it?

I read the Anne McCaffery books in the 80s and early 90s and they are fantasy. The earlier books in the series are better than the later books.

Buck wrote: "I haven't read any Anne McCaffrey. I assumed it's fantasy rather than SF. How is it?"

I found her works a mixed bag. She started off as a romance writer, so that can feature strongly in some books like Restoree or The Ship Who Sang. They're both definitely SF, just with a strong romantic thread. IIRC, the first one was her first SF novel & break from romance. It's not a huge break. The 'Ship' books were harder SF, though.

The original 3 Pern novels read like fantasy, but are actually SF. I remember liking them a lot, but haven't read them in years. Another group is reading the first of them now in this topic:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
if you want to glance through & get an idea. They may not have aged that well.

Keep in mind that Pern was enormously popular & spawned a lot of prequels, divergent series, & even other authors working on it. It's kind of confusing. After the original trilogy, I read a few more here & there, but wasn't impressed. Some friends really liked the Harper's Hall branch, IIRC.

There was another SF series of hers called PTB (Pataybee?) or something. It was awful, although I don't recall the particulars any more.

I read Dinosaur Planet which was SF and enjoyable, but the sequel was awful.

Rosemarie wrote: "I read the Anne McCaffery books in the 80s and early 90s and they are fantasy. The earlier books in the series are better than the later books."

Beg to disagree. McCaffrey set her dragon-riding world in the future on an alien planet that is settled by humans who then devolve into something like a feudal society. The humans are threatened by alien "threads" from another planet. It's got all the fantasy trappings but it is definitely SF. Blending SF and Fantasy seemed to be the order of the day in the 60s and 70s.

Buck wrote: "I haven't read any Anne McCaffrey. I assumed it's fantasy rather than SF. How is it?"

Jury is still out and probably will be for a while, but it's not awful so far. Jim's right that there is a strong romantic thread. He's also right that the book hasn't aged particularly well so it depends on how much you like the writing of that era I suppose. I'll share more complete thoughts when I finish it later this month (hopefully).

I'm almost done with Dragonflight. I'll probably give it 3 stars and I suppose I'll move along in the series eventually.

Also almost done with Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said by Philip K. Dick. I think I'll need to finish this one before I can form any coherent thoughts about it.

Next up: A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle and The Forever War by Joe Haldeman.

I just finished High-Rise by JG Ballard.

Radiantflux wrote: "I just finished High-Rise by JG Ballard."

How was it? I have that one on my shelf.

I finished Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said. What a trip! That was crazy even for PKD. I'm giving it 4 stars but I could see that going up when I eventually re-read it.

I started A Wrinkle in Time and I'm enjoying it. I consider it to be the first SF book I ever read. I think I was introduced to it in grade school and I'm sure a lot of it went way over my head at the time,

Randy wrote: "Radiantflux wrote: "I just finished High-Rise by JG Ballard."

How was it? I have that one on my shelf."

I enjoyed it. I read it in German, which I regret a little, as I really like Ballard's use of language. Whether it is really scifi I don't really know.

I am curious to see the 2015 film version. I will be interested if they can really capture the insanity of the book adequately.

I read A Wrinkle in Time in grade school and wondered if there more books like it. I know I didn't understand everything in the book, but recognized it as something out of the ordinary.

Rosemarie wrote: "I read A Wrinkle in Time in grade school and wondered if there more books like it. I know I didn't understand everything in the book, but recognized it as something out of the ordin..."

Well, there are four additional books in the series, although I haven't read any of them. And L'Engle wrote at least one other series that has some crossover characters. I bought a collection of the first three books in the series so I'll probably read at least that many then decide if I want to continue.

Randy wrote: "I started A Wrinkle in Time and I'm enjoying it. I consider it to be the first SF book I ever read. I think I was introduced to it in grade school and I'm sure a lot of it went way over my head at the time"

It might possibly be the first SF book I ever read as well. Hard to be sure. I certainly remember reading it pretty early. The image of the kids bouncing balls synchronously stuck with me.

It was definitely the first time I'd heard of mitochondria. I probably didn't really understand what they were, but for many years when I would hear that word I would think back to this book.

I totally didn't notice the Christian and Catholic themes on my first read.

Not sure whether I ever made it past book 2 (of 5). The descriptions for book 3 (A Swiftly Tilting Planet) make it seem pretty problematic in treatment of race.

Randy wrote: "Rosemarie wrote: "I read A Wrinkle in Time in grade school and wondered if there more books like it. I know I didn't understand everything in the book, but recognized it as somethin..."

The L'Engle literary universe is huge, complex, and deeply interconnected.

Radiantflux wrote: "Randy wrote: "Radiantflux wrote: "I just finished High-Rise by JG Ballard."

How was it? I have that one on my shelf."

I enjoyed it. I read it in German, which I regret a little, a..."

1. I'm a big fan of J.G. Ballard. I've read all his short stories, which can be found in this big book:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7...

2. I think, though, based on what I've read, J.G. Ballard was much better as a the short story writer than novelist. I think that some of J.G. Ballard's short shorties are on par with Kafka and Borges.

3. I saw the movie High-Rise and disliked it. The movie has some really nasty parts. I agree with a critic who said that the movie was "unfocused." The plot amounts to nasty stuff strung together.

Tom Hiddleston was very good. I think its clear that he's in the top tier in acting ability. Some might also think he looks good when almost naked.

The long short story or novella The Stars, My Brothers by Edmond Hamilton packed an amazing amount of ideas into a short audio book. I gave it a 4 star review here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

We were talking about naked Tom Hiddleston in the Reading the 20th Century group. Big thumbs-up from this gay guy!

Last month I read:

A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle - 3 stars - The child version of me really enjoyed this and it opened a door to a lifetime of reading science fiction in the same way that the Narnia books opened a door to reading fantasy. As an adult it's not quite as compelling, but still a good read.

The Forever War by Joe Haldeman - 3 stars - It was interesting to read this just a couple months after finishing Starship Troopers. Forever War spoke a little more to my generation and I found the soldiers' dialogue and experiences to feel more authentic. But like Starship Troopers, Forever War still had a long saggy boring part in the middle. Having read 2 of the first 4 books of Jim's military SF quadrilogy, I will be turning my attention to Armor by John Steakley later this month for a different group read.

The Status Civilization by Robert Sheckley was disturbing which made it quite good since that was its point. I gave it 4 stars in my review here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Currently reading Man Plus by Frederik Pohl. Approaching the midpoint; So far, it's pretty good. It's a near future setting, so of course he missed a few things, i.e. a hush phone with soft petal like flaps that fold up so others can't overhear a telephone conversation. People smoke and in places where smoking is absolutely verboten today.

Jim wrote: "The Status Civilization by Robert Sheckley was disturbing which made it quite good since that was its point...."

I read 5 or more of his books, and many short stories. I loved some of them, but I have a devil of a time remembering which ones were which!

I started to read A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess.

Rafael wrote: "I started to read A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess."

Great, but weird book. Make sure you have the full version, not the original US version. It's the one Kuberick made the movie from, but it is missing the last chapter, a few pages that changes the entire book.

Jim wrote: "Rafael wrote: "I started to read A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess."

Great, but weird book. Make sure you have the full version, not the original US version. It's t..."

I am reading a brazilian edition. It is full, but I was surprised in discover that. Why someone would edit a piece of art to push a message not intended by the author?

In the introduction the translator suggested to us not to read the dictionary of nadsat in the end of the book, to get the same sensation felt by who read it when it was published. I am doing this. Although I could grab a couple (literally two) meanings because I know what the russian word means (bog-god and lyub-love). But some others are hard to discover their meaning by the context.

Rafael wrote: "Jim wrote: "I am reading a brazilian edition. It is full, but I was surprised in discover that. Why someone would edit a piece of art to push a message not intended by the author?..."

I don't know, but they had the gall to do it. Have you seen the movie? If so, we can discuss this now & you can read the following article. If not, wait until you're finished the books so the story isn't spoiled.
https://consequenceofsound.net/2015/0...