Lightbringer Read-Along discussion

So what do YOU think is going to happen? No theory is too crazy! In fact, crazy is encouraged! But don't look to us for answers. We will neither confirm nor deny so have at it!

I think it is obvious that Liv is going to get captured and after an intense training program by gunner Kip is going to try to rescue her at the last moment. I picture a tense scene, perhaps a hanging or something. I am not sure how it will all turn out but knowing Brent I suspect at least one character will die and another will be revealed to be something they are not.

It should be a blast!

Mundanename wrote: "I think it is obvious that Liv is going to get captured and after an intense training program by gunner Kip is going to try to rescue her at the last moment. I picture a tense scene, perhaps a hang..."

I hope he doesn't kill off a favorite character. It hurts my ♥ when that happens.

That doesn't make sense. Didn't you read the part when Gunner did NOT take Kip? Any way, we know Dazen has more colors than he realizes. He made solid white luxin which was given to The White, and I believe that helps with restoration because, The White got healthier and I'm not sure what part of the blade stabbed the Red, but i think it may have lended a hand in his restoration. So maybe it restores those who are about to break and takes from those who have it all?
I hope that while enslaved in the galley, Dazen will still attempt to split light or maybe even darkness...book 2 alluded to a lot of possibilities with more colors. And the Mirror's statement regarding the colors, makes it plausible.

Kip is thankfully in the black guard, and I hope Marissa moves very quick in removing Dazen's possessions into Kip's hands (hiding place will be hard though)...which would give him the possession of the order's cloaks and the cards. There is so much that will come to play and i am so glad the we have been promised a very large book to dig into.

The color prince may die and Liz would take up his cause, he seems to be grooming her as a Goddess or his second in command.

"I think it is obvious that Liv is going to get captured and after an intense training program by gunner Kip is going to try to rescue her at the last moment. I picture a tense scene, perhaps a hanging or something. I am not sure how it will all turn out but knowing Brent I suspect at least one character will die and another will be revealed to be something they are not.

It should be a blast! "


This was actually a fake chapter read by Mr. Weeks during his book signing tour of "The Blinding Knife"

I think that prisms have been made (not born gifted by Orholam) in the past 400 years via the Blinding Knife, and that a few select people know and carry out this ceremony when it happens. Andross and Orea were among those present most recently, and somehow Orea tampered with the process so that BOTH sons would be prism, not just one. (There is a reason why the first book is called "The BLACK Prism" I think.) She does this because she sees that Dazen is a far better human being then Gavin, and also he isn't just a tool of Andross Guile. She clearly knows gavin is losing his colors, but doesn't know why, which is why she asks Ironfist to retell her the story of Garriston. I also think Andross has figured out that kip is the Lightbringer, which is why he apologizes to him. Can't wait for this book to come out!!!

I hope Kip kicks Zymuns ass and escapes (loses more weight) then rallies the good guys opposing Andross trying to make Zymuns the Prism.

Liv will get even more annoying.....:
Gunner will become a good guy.....
Teia and her special colour will capture the attention of The Broken Eye (assassins guild) when they try to kill Kip......
The White will decline slowly throughout the book....


Just a few but I think they will happen! What do you guys think?


Kylar will appear and be a BAMF train Kip as HIS apprentice and evolve him from Snorlax to Kylar 2.0

I don't think they would come up even if they existed, but what about the other prisons? The real Gavin said he didn't think they could be done, he thought he was in the last one. What do you think?

It probably won't come up, but I want to know ^_^

The Blinder's Knife is the original knife that was used at the Freeing. The knife starts by sucking unused magic from the drafter (the remnants which are seen in the drafter's eyes) before taking their colours. Thus by removing the knife in the right amount of time the drafter being freed can continue drafting without breaking the halo.

Ryan wrote: "The Blinder's Knife is the original knife that was used at the Freeing. The knife starts by sucking unused magic from the drafter (the remnants which are seen in the drafter's eyes) before taking t..."

I'm not sure I understand what your saying. The Blinder's Knife used before a drafter takes their colours keeps the drafter from breaking the halo, but used on full drafters, like Gavin and the assassin, then they lose their ability to draft colours? They become colour blind to their colour(s)?

When kip gets the knife first there are no colours on it (I think?!), but when zymun stabs Gavin colours start appearing on it

To go on the theory that the knife is used to make a prism then the colours must go into that person and stop them from breaking the halo. But if that same knife is used on the same person the colours are sucked out of them leaving them worse off. Essentially colour blind like Gavin

Ryan wrote: "The Blinder's Knife is the original knife that was used at the Freeing. The knife starts by sucking unused magic from the drafter (the remnants which are seen in the drafter's eyes) before taking t..."

That's what I'm assuming... the Freeing was originally a rite that either freed them from drafting period (sucked their colors away, but at least left them alive and able to retire), or like what happened with Andross, enabled them to continue drafting. Probably the former, since now the process has been perverted into the drafter merely being killed, and the knife now lost/used selfishly only to create new Prisms. Makes sense with the theme of the growing corruption of the Chromeria....

Hmmm...i think the freeing always involved death, it was probably the best way to keep power balanced. If people remained powerful for too long and had a means to continue using the power without repercusions, then the world they live in would be much different and chaotic. With regards to lightbringer, can't that be Devan? He is already doing many of the things prophecied as it is, and who knows what Guille schemes he would think up while in bonds under Gunner? august 26th is drawing near too slowly for my liking, i must say.

I have been thinking about how the knife works.

When Zymun cut, not stabbed, Gavin with the knife, Gavin had most recently been drafting blue, green and yellow. After being cut he lost blue first and then eventually green and then yellow was getting difficult. Maybe he wouldn't have lost all his colors from just a cut.

When Kip stabbed the knife into the wights and the green color god, it took their color and that killed them. When Kip used the knife to try to kill Andross, who had become a wight, but he only cut him, the knife took away the excess color and restored Andross to his normal colors. When Gavin saved Kip from being stabbed with the knife taking the knife through his body, it took all his colors and once removed, his body recovered but he was colorblind.

So. Maybe a cut from the knife merely drains the most recent color having been drafted and in a wights case it drains only the excess color, but a stab penetrating the body takes the color(s) completely which would kill a wight whose lifeforce had become dependent on his colors but it would leave a normal drafter colorblind to their color(s).

I actually don't think Kip is the lightbringer, despite that scene in the Blunding Knife. I think it has to be Dazen or Gavin. Think about it. There aren't supposed to be two Prisms at once. So maybe there "wasn't." What if Dazen or Gavin was the Lightbringer, and the other te real Prism?

The book comes out tomorrow and the truth will be revealed!

I couldn't help myself. I had to see if I was going to like the ending of the book. I skimmed the last chapter and two epilogues.

I think I hate Brett Weeks more for this one that I did for The Blinding Knife! :-o

What if Real Gavin had to be made into a Prism using the Blinding Knife (because Andross knew he could control Gavin) and Real Dazen, taking Gavin's place, didn't know about the ceremony, but was a prism anyway, WITHOUT the knife, because...he is the lightbringer and can naturally split light, draft all colors, all colors together (black), or no colors (white)? Just some thoughts :-)

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. Especially since Dazen didn't even know what the knife was, so any ability he has is obviously natural. Don't know if you've read the broken eye yet but there's some more things in there that point to that solution...

oh I've read The Broken Eye...if you have some more clues lined up from it, I'd be interested to hear your viewpoint. I'm finding that there are so many clues to be in mind of, I'm forgetting half of them.

I also think that Kip is a real Guile and Zymun is not. And somehow Andross knows all this. We are given physical descriptions and reactions from other characters in The Broken Eye, that back up Kip's inheritance and throw Zymun's into contention.
I don't think Lina is Kip's real mother, and she was paid/convinced to raise Kip from a baby, and also to keep the knife safe. Perhaps she was in a spy ring/order and that's why she turned to drugs?

I've also had that thought about the identities of Kip and Zymun, while it makes sense given her abuse and drug habit that Lina is not Kip's mother... Zymun is definitely Karis' Brent loves torture and making us grasp at straws... besides flipping their mothers around makes no sense and would be to obvious and a normal thing to do. Onto the BK, Its stated that naming day of a new prism is always very sad and in total darkness before hand because they killed the former prism. The Knife makes and unmakes prisms from what we can glean... Lucidonius was probably the first true prism and had his powers stolen by the knife (or from 7 unfortunate drafters), his wife became the first recognizable prism. From there the prisms grew gradually more ineffective (speculation here) maybe not wholy because of ineptitude but because the transfer of power isn't 100% efficient and led to prisms deaths... Dazen survived because he was the first natural prism and may have overcharged the knife thus allowing for Andross' fortune.

Liv - she is now one of the most powerful characters on the field with no clear allegiances... She can become the Super-Violet God,with no one controlling her and possibly without even breaking the halo. Wonder where she's going to end up...

As for Andross himself... we may be grossly overestimating him... his primary advisor is the leader of the Order... yes he's a very wily man... but it begs the question.. how much is him.. and how much is Grinwoody?

As for the lightbringer... i think its kip because that is the easy answer.. Weeks knows that we think of him as being crafty.. so the biggest surprise then would be to play the simple answer...

Also the cards... so many tantalizing hints in there... im going to reread the series and focus on the obscure stuff such as the cards but let me know what you think of everything, especially the cards

To be honest I never considered the identities of Kip or Zymuns mothers. I don't think there's anything there beyond what was made obvious. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised!

I also have no idea where Liv is going to end up but, I just don't really care. Even if she renounced all allegiances and went straight to Kip's aid. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't redeem her. She died as an interesting character way too long ago, mostly is just a plot vehicle to me at the moment. :/

As much as I hate to say it, you might have something there with Andross being overestimated. I've outlined some gripes with how he handles information he (supposedly) got in Broken eye in my other post. Though he might not have gotten that info at all. So meh.

I maintain that it's Dazen if only because the book goes to fairly big extremes to make it seem it is Kip. From conversations where characters outright say it can't be "Gavin" to Kylar-esque death sequences for Kip. It's just *too* easy.

To jump on a previous conversation I think the Spectrum has been "making" Prisms for a long time and Real Gavin was the last of them.

Was it because natural Prisms stopped manifesting or because the Spectrum were power hungry? Im not sure, but I will bet that the ceremony is what made Gavin change after his thirteenth birthday.

Whereas Dazen was the first natural Prism in a very long time. More than one person has pointed out that hes been the best and most powerful Prism for decades, and it explains why he knew nothing about the ceremony.

On another note I'm leaning towards Kip not being the Lightbringer. It was too much of a slap in the face in this book which makes me think Weeks is playing a subtle game and its actually someone else.
Unless hes playing a double blind.
After that chapter during TBK tour I don't underestimate him, and its really interesting trying to figure out where things are going.

Natural prisms vs created prisms will play a big part... I was able to talk to Weeks last night in Cincinnati... Of course it was his typical dodgery but he said "thats a very sharp perception and you're in the right line of thinking" but at risk of spoilers he said no more...

Also... In my books where he signed.. He wrote about a plot twist with the 200... What do we know of them? Has that already happened or is that a hinting? Love to hear your thoughts

And he also said that my point was valid about Andross but merely acknowledged the question... Dunno how deep a game hes playing >_<

The spectrum clearly has been artificially creating prisms for a while...the question I have is how? The blinders knife either takes away your powers or reverses your halo. And we already know breaking the halo doesn't actually make you go mad, if anything probably makes you a good deal more powerful. So it's a detrimental effect on the whole.

Maybe the process requires the blinders knife as well as another artifact. Maybe even more.

In any case, I'm not sure that Dazen's power has much to do with actually being a natural prism vs an artificial one. I mean, the real power in drafting comes from will right? Dazen has an enormous amount but we know that there are others with far more will. So if they were made into prisms as well, wouldn't they be just as powerful if not more? Perhaps nowhere near as clever but powerful all the same.

I don't think he'll really drag Andross down too much. I mean we know the guy is pretty clever on his own from all the nine kings games and his history with that. It's not like he's a complete buffoon otherwise. So Grinwoody can't actually be the big master manipulator over the past twenty years.

Jordan wrote: "Natural prisms vs created prisms will play a big part... I was able to talk to Weeks last night in Cincinnati... Of course it was his typical dodgery but he said "thats a very sharp perception and ..."
Wow, I'm surprised he answered you on that one; lucky you! I wish I could go somewhere and get my book signed...sigh. Which point about Andross did he say was valid?
As is evident, I like to come up with what might seem like outlandish theories until something seems to gel. (It worked for me before I finished the Harry Potter series, lol).
So, this is confirmed? Natural and created Prisms? I thought so! Yay! Personally I believe Real Gavin wasn't even a full spectrum polychrome, but the knife took care of that. Perhaps Andross thought his eldest son was more ruthless and controllable than Real Dazen would be, and that's why Andross made sure Real Gavin was made prism in the secret ceremony and thereafter Gavin's relationship with his younger brother was thrown in turmoil without explanation.
I have another way-out-there theory: What if the blinding knife had to be loaded with extra colors in order to make Real Gavin a full spectrum polychrome/prism? Sevastian was killed right around the time Real Gavin was made prism. We know Sevastian was killed by a blue wight, but do we know the WHOLE story about that? Anyway, there's something fishy about Sevastian's death, and its timing. I keep thinking that Andross has sociopathic tendencies and he might think that three sons was a bit much vs. his plan to rule the world, lol. *Ugh* I know....but stranger things have happened in this series already!

I was also considering that about Sevastian.. it hadnt formed that much yet tho but it does seem suspicious..

Also he said that the question of How much of a player is Andross and how much is Grinwoody using him as a front? i got much less on that one... only that it was an interesting question...

Limelight wrote: "Jordan wrote: "Natural prisms vs created prisms will play a big part... I was able to talk to Weeks last night in Cincinnati... Of course it was his typical dodgery but he said "thats a very sharp ..."


Well I mean the book confirms it for us. Dazen never interacted with the knife. He simply gained the prismatic eyes all on his lonesome. and we find out through Kip that the knife is required in the process of making prisms. Though we don't know specifically how. I doubt it imbues one with power since all we've seen it do is drain/reverse power. Surely it must combine with something else in order to create the desired effect.

Yup, I don't think you're getting the whole picture if you think the knife doesn't give power. Dazen figured that out, which is why, in The Broken Eye, he asked the freed slaves to stab him with the knife. He was trying to recover what the knife took from him.

About the 200... What if there's actually 200 colors? Weeks' magic system is based largely off real world light-science, with the "visible spectrum." In the real world, humans can only see a fraction of all the different kinds of light, so why would that not that be the case in Weeks' world? "The 9" could just be the seven colors visible to humans plus black and white (or paryl and chi). And remember that Orholam's friend (or child or whatever he was) only took some of the colors from Orholam and brought them down to the human world? I know I'm not remembering everything or picking up on everything, but I'm almost sure that the 200 and the nine have something to do with colors... I also don't think Ironfist is a traitor. Yes, he's an agent of the Broken Eye, but it's not his sole allegiance. What the Broken Eye stands for isn't necessarily bad, despite there being bad people running/participating in it (Murder Sharp). So I really hope that we see much more Ironfist, and maybe even some Ironfist-POVs! I still don't think Kip is the lightbringer. I'm not sure if that creepo-immortal thing in the Great Library was actually the Lightbringer, but he was obviously someone important (the other thing we have to consider is that the Lightbringer might not be the only important person. Although Lightbearer and Lightgiver sound similar, it's possible they aren't, and that there's more positions like that...). Kip isn't a genius of magic. Yes, he's good, but he's not Dazen, who drafts something once and remembers how to draft the exact same thing again for his entire life, and who invented the Skimmer. Dazen killed his brother, Kip didn't (and if Limelight is right, and Zymun isn't Kip's brother, then Kip can't be the Lightbinger anyway, as he'd have no brother to kill — or were you (Limelight) just saying that they have different mothers, but are still Gavin's children, and still half-brothers?). Then there was that whole thing with Orholam (Dazen's sailor buddy). I think Dazen will probably be rewarded somehow for choosing not to draft Black Luxin. There was also that scene after Kip walked miles through that jungle and starved, when he met the woman, and she said something. I don't remember exactly what it was, but wasn't the general point of what she was saying something along the lines of "I know you think you might be the Lightbringer, but don't think you are. Orholam has plans for you, but not those ones?" I only have a very rough idea of what I think, and all my thoughts are jumbled which is why I can't explain them well, but something about Kip being the Lightbringer to me just seems wrong. I also doubt that Andross imprisoned Dazen; I think it was probably the Broken Eye, though I'm not sure why/how.

Limelight wrote: "Yup, I don't think you're getting the whole picture if you think the knife doesn't give power. Dazen figured that out, which is why, in The Broken Eye, he asked the freed slaves to stab him with th..."

He gathered that the knife is used in the process but as I said. Every instance of its use, by itself, results in a detrimental effect. It always reverts drafters to previous states. Undoing broken halos, sucking the power out of people. I suspect in order to create the prismatic effect, there has to be another artifact used.

Until all the jewels on the hilt are filled up. When they are, it delivers its payload to the next person stabbed. That's how they use the knife to make a Prism. This is consistent both with what we've seen the knife already do; what Dazen thinks it will do; what it did in the history we've been told of; and it also explains why it is so sought after. Taken together, imho, this is strong evidence the knife is well able to both make a prism and take colors away (depending on the state of the knife and the duration of contact with its 'victim') all by itself. The only remaining question in my mind in light of this (pun intended :-) ) is; " Exactly what are the functions of both the black and white luxin that make up the structure of the knife?"

Limelight wrote: "Until all the jewels on the hilt are filled up. When they are, it delivers its payload to the next person stabbed. That's how they use the knife to make a Prism. This is consistent both with what w..."

I actually don't recall that being explicitly stated but I also assumed that would be the case...until Dazen tried to stab himself when it was in that state and it didn't work. (at least I assume it was in that state, it gathered up all the remaining colors out of him already afterall). As per Night Angel, Brent loves his ancient powerful artifacts. So I assume there's another artifact missing from this process (it's not as if this world is particularly lacking them anyways). I mean, I could easily be wrong, though it wouldn't explain why the knife didn't work when he tried it.

If I were to hazard a guess, one is the antithesis of power and one is power itself. It's been posited quite frequently that either black or white are in fact either a combination of colors or the absence of color. Perhaps that has to do with how the dagger works as well. It can suck power and it can give power. (Either in combination with another artifact or on its lonesome).

If i remember correctly.. there was a flashback scene about Andross drilling into the gems of the knife and using the powder/exposed luxin to make gavin into a Prism.

As for that point on the 200... that actually makes a ton of sense... the black Prism talked about many other resonance points... That would also explain why its the 9 and not the Eleven... Only thing going against it is that Janus Borig said there was only 11... its a good theory... but how does that all match up?

I suppose the eleven could be the normal seven plus white, black, paryl, and chi? Course then you have to exclude two of those to make the nine. I'm not sure how it all matches up, but I'm pretty sure it has something to do with that, and hopefully Weeks will be able to show us how in a year or two! Another theory... Are the prisons somehow connected to Dazen/Gavin and the Blinder's Knife? I know this is more of a Black Prism/Blinding Knife thing, and that it doesn't really make too much sense, but I think it's just too much of a coincidence that after Dazen started losing Blue, real Gavin broke our of the Blue prison, and that after when real Gavin broke out of the Green prison, Dazen started losing Green. I understand that Dazen started to lose Blue after he got scratched with the Blinder's Knife, but why did he start to lose green? He got stabbed twice (I think): by Zymun at the end of the Black Prism (when he started losing blue), and by himself/Andross/grinwoody at the end of the blinding knife (when he lost all his remaining colors). I see no correlation between the Blinder's Knife and Dazen's losing Green, unless I'm forgetting something, which is very possible, as I read those two books about 2 years ago. As for black and white luxin... In the real world, colors are shot all over the place, and most things have pigments, which absorb colors. Whatever color isn't absorbed by an objects pigments is reflected, and that is the color we see (so if we see a green leaf, it's actually just reflecting green, and it has absorbed the other six colors). White is the absence of colors; it reflects every color and doesn't absorb any (this is why it's a good shirt to wear in summer, because it doesn't absorb any light/heat). Black absorbs every color (which is why it is hot). So maybe the black in the blinding knife absorbs/steals someone's colors, while the white gives them to someone. Maybe (this is really crazy) if someone has drafted black luxin, the blinder's knife cannot give them colors, and can only take them away, since black luxin is "soul poison." By the way, we've finally figured out the title for the first book: the *BLACK* (black luxin) Prism.

Oh, about the second powerful ancient artifact, what if it's "The Blood Mirror?"

true, the prisons played a factor... i think Weeks did that on purpose to confuse us... so we have multiple leads to follow

I'm reading from book 1 all over again. Book 3 was a mental roller-coaster that needs to be better made sense of.

In book 1 Dazen says he never discovered whose idea it was to burn Garriston, but in book 3 it's said he found out in his first ever Freeing. Or did he mean the commander?

Jordan wrote: "If i remember correctly.. there was a flashback scene about Andross drilling into the gems of the knife and using the powder/exposed luxin to make gavin into a Prism.

As for that point on the 200..."

It's good to remember that simply because a character said something, that doesn't mean it's true. Janus Borig may have known a lot but, that doesn't mean everything she said was actually accurate and that she knew the truth about everything.

she can lie in perzon but her cards dont lie

why not? we know she can alter her cards as she pleases. That's why Andross's card is only of him from twenty years ago. with his three sons. Clearly the cards can be manipulated how she likes. She is creating them after all. I also didn't simply mean that she is lying, but that what she thinks is true isn't inherently true.

Andross has multiple cards... hes also 'The Master' and his card was truth in that time period

In scurting the issue chapter in book 2 do we see Cruxer many years from now? If so, it doesn't look like there's going to be peace in the long term. I wonder if it's the same war?

One thing that bugs me about this book is that prisms weren't supposed to become color Wight's, maybe it is just the created prisms and not natural ones like Gavin. Which would make sense. If not my theory is that since Gavin Drafted black luxin atleast once if not more times, when drafting it he expelled all the other residual color (which explains why its is refered to as the essence of madness or something) or the residual black luxin absorbs all the trace color in his bloodstream

Interesting theory. If that's true, then maybe when he drafts white all the Luxin that was in the black is kind of pushed back out of it? Also, Dazen isn't a color wight; that's when someone's colors overflow and the "break the halo." All his colors just went away, along with his ability to see them (which doesn't happen when color wights break the halo).

Yeah I know he isn't a color wight, he a subchromate now. I was referring to the other prisms Ironfist mentioned. But the concept has gotten me thinking along those line. It also explains why the blinder's knife would grow. I have been theorizing that a prism can only draft white if he has drafted black luxin

Dazen drafted white for the first time we know in 'The Black Prism' after he'd exhausted himself by drafting that whole huge wall around the city before the battle at Garriston, so I think white luxin happens when he's exhausted all his color producing ability. I guess that could happen by drafting black, but we've already seen that he doesn't HAVE to draft black first, to draft white. :-)