The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

The Goldsmiths Prize shortlist is due out on 27th September and will be announced together with a lecture (last year Howard Jacobsen spoke 'In Defence of the Comic Novel). This year's lecture details still to be announced.

But interested in thoughts on what might make the shortlist this year - last year we managed to call 5 of the 6 books.

As a reminder the Prize is to celebrate the qualities of creative daring associated with the University and to reward fiction that breaks the mould or extends the possibilities of the novel form.

And eligibility is novels, (not short stories):

- published between 1 November 2016 and 31 October 2017

- by a publisher in UK or Ireland

- written in English by citizens of the UK or Ireland (so no Lincoln in the Bardo)

So far in the four years of the prize, they've always managed to pick at least one book from the Booker shortlist.

And the judges are:
- Naomi Wood, Lecturer in Creative Writing at Goldsmiths
- Kevin Barry former Goldsmiths and Impac winner,
- Tracey Thorn, New Statesman columnist and one half of Everything but the Girl
- A.L. Kennedy, former Costa winner

The only Booker book I can see is Autumn and I believe Smith has a strong Goldsmith record?

To get the discussion started - although none of these I'm particularly confident will appear:

Forbidden Line by Paul Stanbridge, the one I would most like to see and which won a special prize at the 2017 Republic of Consciousness Prize, which has a similar focus on 'creative daring' to Goldsmiths

Reservoir 13 by Jon McGregor from the Booker: can make a case for its innovation in it's very different style

First Love by Gwendoline Riley - from the Bailey's shortlist, but is it distinctive enough

In the Absence of Absalon by Simon Okotie - most interesting and different book I've read this year

The Blood Miracles by Lisa McInerney, which I found very disappointing but Kevin Barry is a big champion

And three I haven't read but came up in Booker pre-discussions

H(A)PPY by Nicola Barker - she's featured before

A Line Made by Walking by Sara Baume - from same publisher as last year's winner

The End We Start From by Megan Hunter - almost a novella with an apocalyptic climate-change theme

Gumble's Yard wrote: "The only Booker book I can see is Autumn and I believe Smith has a strong Goldsmith record?"

Good call except.....technically it was eligible last year - as it was published in October. Practically though it wasn't really eligible as proofs wouldn't have been available in time for the judging process - so depends if they make a waiver to their rules.

(for 2017 rules are: If finished copies are not available by 24 March 2017, bound proofs may be submitted on condition that they are of good quality and that the content reflects that of the final book. If proofs are submitted, final copies should be sent in as soon as they are available and no later than 5pm, 30 June 2017)

Goldsmiths cut off is one month after the Booker.

Autumn published to early, I think.

I'd love to see In The Absence Of Absalon and Reservoir 13 there. Forbidden Line would be good, but I can't see it getting on the list.

Winter would qualify, though.

What about The Gallows Pole by Benjamin Myers? Have a copy, but haven't read it yet, but wouldn't the use of historical documents and archaic language qualify it?

Neil wrote: "Autumn published to early, I think.

I'd love to see In The Absence Of Absalon and Reservoir 13 there. Forbidden Line would be good, but I can't see it getting on the list."

Forbidden Line was definitely submitted - as was We That Are Young but the publishers felt the latter may not tick the formal innovation box.

Talking of the RoC Prize, the founder Neil Griffiths has a novel out in early October that could be a contender - As a God Might Be - although given what I said earlier re the timescales (proofs by March, final copies June), October books may struggle.

Doug wrote: "What about The Gallows Pole by Benjamin Myers? Have a copy, but haven't read it yet, but wouldn't the use of historical documents and archaic language qualify it?"

Gallows Pole - yes possibly it could tick the boxes. Depends how judges interpret it. Felt more of a Booker book to me.

Neil wrote: "Winter would qualify, though."

Well given Ali Smith was still reading from bits of paper even last week, it feels it will fall a bit foul of the practicalities of getting a final copy into the judges hands by June.

Perhaps they can read Autumn and then shortlist Winter on the strength of that.

NB trying to add links to the books we mention as it works well with Goodreads functionality (e.g. to create a consolidated list of the books mentioned, and for this discussion to appear on the book's own page).

e.g. see https://www.goodreads.com/topic/menti...

On the app so perhaps you can add links for me.

My list which I had mentally drawn up when I suggested this thread to you is very similar to the list above.

What about " the clocks in this house all tell different times". It seems an unusual style and treatment of the subject.

Gumble's Yard wrote: "On the app so perhaps you can add links for me.

My list which I had mentally drawn up when I suggested this thread to you is very similar to the list above.

What about " The Clocks in This House All Tell Different Times"

Yes that is a good suggestion.

Paul wrote: "Neil wrote: "Winter would qualify, though."

Well given Ali Smith was still reading from bits of paper even last week, it feels it will fall a bit foul of the practicalities of getting a final copy..."

Ah, yes, when you put it like that...

I'm rooting for happy that's a very goldsmiths type of book. I assume Autumn will make an appearance and i can't help thinking that reservoir 13 had a goldsmiths vibe

H(A)PPY (Nicola Barker)seems a very likely shortlist candidate given the stated aims of the Goldsmiths prize
to celebrate the qualities of creative daring ....and to reward fiction that breaks the mould or extends the possibilities of the novel form.
The Power (Naomi Alderman) fits the bill, and would provide Gumbles Yard with an opportunity to re-read for the fifth time.
I would love to see Phone (Will Self) on the list, and his work certainly accords to the Goldsmiths charter.

Oh i bet the david keenan book (this memorial device??) Will be shortlisted: Stream of conscious, alternative rock, Scottish dialect. Just perfect.

Adding links for those:

This Is Memorial Device by David Keenan

The Power by Naomi Alderman

Phone by Will Self

David Hebblethwaite, (@David_Heb, http://www.davidsbookworld.com/) one of my favourite bloggers, was the source of many of our successful guesses last year.

He suggested the following additions (the comments are mine):

When We Speak of Nothing by Olumide Popoola, from the same publisher as last year's Like A Mule Bringing Ice Cream to the Sun

The Story of John Nightly, by Tot Taylor (1000 pages, crowd funded on Unbound)

Strange Heart Beating by Eli Goldstone, about a man whose wife is killed by a swan and goes to Latvia in search of her roots

The Cut - a Brexit novel (which incidentally I hated! Gumble and Neil quite liked it), and which was commissioned by the owner of Pereine Press who is in turn the author of:

The Photographer by Meike Ziervogel

Interview with Tracey Thorn, when she was a judge for the Baileys Prize. Maybe there's an indication of the types of books to expect on the Goldsmiths shortlist.

http://www.womensprizeforfiction.co.u...

Robert wrote: "Interview with Tracey Thorn, when she was a judge for the Baileys Prize. Maybe there's an indication of the types of books to expect on the Goldsmiths shortlist.

http://www.womensprizeforfiction...."

A prize that was won by Lisa McInerney, another reason for me to think she may feature with her sequel

Paul wrote: "Robert wrote: "Interview with Tracey Thorn, when she was a judge for the Baileys Prize. Maybe there's an indication of the types of books to expect on the Goldsmiths shortlist.

http://www.womensp..."

As such though, the Glorious Heresies isn't really that boundary pushing (I thought it was a fantastic novel though). It just has a bit of dialect and is slightly non chronological, maybe that the characters are only seen through the eyes of the other protagonists may make it a bit different. If the sequel is the same I can't really see it as a Goldsmiths book.

Paul wrote: "Robert wrote: "Interview with Tracey Thorn, when she was a judge for the Baileys Prize. Maybe there's an indication of the types of books to expect on the Goldsmiths shortlist.

http://www.womensp..."

Yes I had the exact same thought.

But whereas I can see one could (at a push) call Glorious Heresies innovative due to its vibrancy, language, and unusual cast of narrators - the Blood Miracles seems to be more of a gangster novel.

But last year I think I pointed out that based on past years - there was a 66% chance the winner was Irish and that is now a 75% chance.

Paul wrote: "Neil wrote: "Winter would qualify, though."

Well given Ali Smith was still reading from bits of paper even last week, it feels it will fall a bit foul of the practicalities of getting a final copy..."

If it's anything like Autumn she'll be putting those bits of paper in a hat and pasting them in the order she pulls them out.

Goldsmiths Prize lecture - and live reveal of shortlist - has been announced: and its Ali Smith doing the lecture.

Free tickets here:
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-ne...

Paul wrote: "Goldsmiths Prize lecture - and live reveal of shortlist - has been announced: and its Ali Smith doing the lecture.

Free tickets here:
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-ne......"

I've registered.

Neil wrote: "Paul wrote: "Goldsmiths Prize lecture - and live reveal of shortlist - has been announced: and its Ali Smith doing the lecture.

Free tickets here:
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-ne...-..."

I've also registered :-)

Ive registered too!

I have registered too! Hope to meet some of you there.

Quite envious that you can attend such an event. :)

It will likely be streamed live - it was last year I recall although I recall someone (Trevor?) saying the quality wasn't great

Hugh wrote: "I have registered too! Hope to meet some of you there."

Looks like we might be heading for a GR party!

Is the venue easy to get to? I'm one of those Londoners who rarely ventures south of the river...

I am registered also - we should try to find some way to meet up as a group

As an aside for the really ambitious there is a serious of lectures for £295:

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-go...

Isobel wrote: "Is the venue easy to get to? I'm one of those Londoners who rarely ventures south of the river..."

I don't even live in London, but it looks relatively easy to get to - close to a station.

Hugh - it would be good to meet up. Perhaps we could meet in a pub beforehand? Afterwards, I will need to get on the move quickly as I have to get back to Paddington for a train home.

Isobel wrote: "Is the venue easy to get to? I'm one of those Londoners who rarely ventures south of the river..."
I have just looked it up on the map - it is between New Cross and New Cross Gate stations and within walking distance of both.

Gumble's Yard wrote: "... we should try to find some way to meet up as a group"

Good idea. I am planning to do it as a day trip from Nottingham, and will need to be back at St Pancras by 2315, but I am not working that day so could come down earlier.

I am on the 2215 out of Paddington, so not much time after the event.

But I will be in the area from about 5.30pm on the day. So a pre-drink sounds like a good idea to me.

Neil wrote: "I am on the 2215 out of Paddington, so not much time after the event.

But I will be in the area from about 5.30pm on the day. So a pre-drink sounds like a good idea to me." Agreed - we could do with a suggestion on where from somebody who knows the area. An early start would mean I can combine it with visiting some London bookshops, which would be a bonus.

Awesome! I wish I could join you all! And, yes, I tried to watch last year online and just shut it off the quality was so poor.

Tracey Thorn (one of the judges) in today's New Statesman

"I pick up my book, one I’ve brought with me to read for the Goldsmiths Prize, the literary award that looks for novels exhibiting “creative daring”, that “extend the possibility for the novel form” and “break the mould”... You know the kind of books I mean.

I’m all for the prize, and I’ve been thoroughly enjoying the reading so far, but on the other hand, sometimes, on a plane circling the airport after you’ve finished your gin and tonic and stowed away your table, or on a sunbed at 9am, your brain has different requirements. And as I look at this particular book, one with which I’ve been struggling for a few days, my heart sinks. For I have blundered in my holiday choice and brought the one that is all hard work and no fun.

Looking up at me from the table beside my chair is an alternative, the book I brought, “just in case”. It’s To Kill the President by Sam Bourne (pseudonym of Guardian journalist Jonathan Freedland). A little guiltily, I turn to that instead, and within two pages I’m gripped. It slips down as easily and pleasurably as the local rosé and I devour it in two days straight. Fast-paced and exciting, it is perfect holiday reading."

I attended the Goldsmiths Prize last year and on the back of my experiences then I offer the following:

1. Access from central London is very easy. Overland trains from London Bridge to New Cross GATE (not New Cross) are frequent - about every ten minutes, and quick/ about seven minutes travel time.
Direct from London Victoria is possible, but less frequent and slower (about 40 minutes)
New Cross Gate station is modern, well lit, well signposted (this is a classic example of the spreading modernisation and gentrification of inner London)
2. Connection to the north (Hugh) from London St Pancras, to London Bridge is a quick and straight (Northern line Bank branch) journey
3. Connection to the West (Neil).
London Bridge Jubilee line to/ from Baker Street is quick (15 minutes), and clean(!).The switch to/ from the Bakerloo line to Paddington is less salubrious.
4. Walk from New Cross Gate rail station to Goldsmiths campus- about 5 minutes. The Ian Gulland Theatre is the opposite side of the Green to the Stuart Hall theatre (for those of us at last year's event).
5. Rendezvous thoughts.
The pub/ bistro directly opposite New Cross Gate station is The Rose Inn (rosepubandkitchen.com)
I had a meal and drink there last year and liked the service and ambience.

Thanks, Jonathan - really helpful!

Google maps seems to suggest going via Canada Water, but your route looks quicker. I was a bit worried when I looked at the location because I've booked myself on the 2215 train out of Paddington, but it sounds like I should be able to get there in an hour.

The Rose Inn sounds ideally located.

Now we just need to get on with the serious business of predicting the shortlist!

Thanks Jonathan and Neil. Should be interesting...

Just thinking through the judges.

One of AL Kennedy's most recent books was a Dr Who novel ...... Just like Naomi Alderman.....

And then there is this back cover quote

https://goldenharebooks.com/product/p...

This was the reaction from Tracy Thorn to the Baileys Prize

https://m.facebook.com/traceythorn4ev...

Kevin Barry's first novel was a science fiction novel featuring gang warfare and inspired by American television

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_...

And the chair of judges is called Naomi and studied Creative Writing at the UEA

Jonathan. Might mean we both get the chance to read The Power for the second time.

I am going to be away when the Ali Smith lecture is on, sadly. I definitely want to attend the shortlist readings this year. Is there a date for that yet?

I don't really see how The Power breaks the mould or extends the possibility of the novel form. Am I missing something? I'm sure I read lots of sci-if books when I was younger that did much the same as The Power does.

Gumble
If you look at one of the first posts on this thread you will note that it was I who floated The Power as a possible contender, and this was with special reference to the reading opportunity this would afford you in particular....

Ang. Not yet for the shortlist readings.

Yeah.I agree with Neil. The Power's writing style is not too dissimilar to Atwood's early novels. The plot is great but when I think of Goldsmiths, I wouldn't see the power as a contender

Completely agree on The Power, but I had seen Jonathan's earlier mention of it (which goes back to our debate at the Bailey's readings) and then came across AL Kennedy's Dr Who book, her quote on the back of The Power and Kevin Barry's first novel and could not resist mentioning them.

I understand the reasoning - your post is a fascinating set of connections! But I hope The Power isn't shortlisted for two reasons. Firstly, I don't think it is really Goldsmith's material. Secondly, I didn't like it and I don't want to re-read it (actually, if it is shortlisted, I won't re-read it).