Reading the Detectives discussion

This is the spoiler thread for Murder at Merisham Lodge. Spoilers can be freely posted here as it is assumed that anyone reading this thread has finished the book.

I liked this, with reservations. I found the constant references to the earlier novella annoying and wished I had read it first. Also, at first it seemed realistic that the two main characters were either too exhausted to talk about what had happened, or couldn't meet up (and undoubtedly WAS realistic), but it slowed the story down.

I have to admit I didn't finish it.

One of my pet peeves in 'period English mysteries' is that despite the author's wishing to include the aristocracy they don't do their home work. Either the victim is Lady Eveline, daughter of an Earl, Marquess or Duke, or she is Lady Cartwright. Did Lord Cartwright make a habit of marrying the daughters of senior peers (his first wife was, apparently, Lady Alice)?

Susan wrote: "I liked this, with reservations. I found the constant references to the earlier novella annoying and wished I had read it first. Also, at first it seemed realistic that the two main characters were..."

I also liked this with reservations, Susan - I enjoyed the characters, but agree that I found the references to the earlier book annoying. I stopped reading this one after a few pages, read the short story first and then returned!

I also agree that the lack of time which the two servants have to investigate or discuss their findings is realistic, but slows the book down too much.

Also, there is far too much space spent on repetitive descriptions of the meals Joan cooks - after we've had one detailed account of making soup, for instance, couldn't she just say 'I was making soup' second time round?!

I read the novella afterwards, Judy, but I wish I had also stopped and read it first. It certainly would have made more sense.

I got her point about constantly pointing out how labour intensive everything was, how they were at the whim of their employers, etc. but the resentment and detail about life as a servant over shadowed the actual mystery at times.

I wasn't keen although I seem to have given it three stars so it wasn't terrible. I may downgrade to two though having thought about it a bit more.

I found this more cosy mystery (I think) than GA. reminded me more of the style of Agatha Raisin. I found the mystery a bit obvious, I didn't feel there was any suspense to it. I thought she was trying to create suspense by having the two characters not manage to talk to each other and that was annoying more than anything else. it also struck me as a bit twee, maybe caricatures rather than characters. Bring out the set of standard English stately home characters please and deploy them as per usual.

The novella references were annoying and designed to get you to buy that as well I thought. I didn't as I felt a bit resentful of that and I was bored enough with the full length. I didn't need another fifty pages of making soup or being tired.

I wonder if in later books - which I won't read - there is a romance between Joan and the Inspector, definitely hints of it here.

I really enjoyed this book. I haven't reviewed it yet, but I will be giving it five stars. I think what worked for me were the characters--I really enjoyed the downstairs slant of the story perspective, and I think that made me more willing to overlook how slow the pacing was as a result of Verity and Joan's exhaustion and how little time they had to talk together.

Funnily enough, while I also found the frequent asides into cooking or historical detail bogged down the mystery, those are exactly the sort of details I love to read about in history books (I love reading Mrs Beeton for example). So while I agree they could have been better integrated or omitted to keep the plot progressing briskly, I enjoyed them enough that I'm willing to let the author keep those extra stars.

Michelle, I also wondered if that was the start of a romance! I'm curious as to how the author could keep that going--with only one member of the aristocrat family not dead or imprisoned at the end of the story, it's hard to see how there could be more murders, unless Verity and Joan look for new positions.

For those who have read the novella, is this the one that is free if you sign up to the author's mailing list? If so, would you recommend it?

Re the novella. I read it in The Asharton Manor Mysteries Boxed Set which are four separate stories about the same house. Only the first one with the characters from Merisham Lodge. I borrowed the book through kindle unlimited.
Personally I wouldn't buy the set at the current price, as I didn't like the second two stories. Also as I read a lot I prefer to buy books when they are on offer or free, or use my kindle unlimited which I have found has saved me quite a bit as I can easily borrow enough books to have made a saving each month.

Gillian wrote: "For those who have read the novella, is this the one that is free if you sign up to the author's mailing list? If so, would you recommend it? ..."

No, this isn't the same one you get free if you sign up to the mailing list - the story featuring Miss Hart and Miss Hunter is the first in the Asharton Manor Mysteries which Jay-me mentioned. I enjoyed the novella and felt it was very similar in feel to the novel, so as you loved the book I'm sure you would enjoy the novella too, Gillian.

The one given away free with the mailing list is the second story, which features different characters.

I haven't read the further novellas, but I might read on with the main series. I didn't really love it, but I didn't dislike it either and it is one of those series which could improve as you get to know the characters more. I did like the relationship between Miss Hart and Miss Hunter.

Gillian wrote: "I really enjoyed this book. I haven't reviewed it yet, but I will be giving it five stars. I think what worked for me were the characters--I really enjoyed the downstairs slant of the story perspec..."

I also enjoyed the downstairs focus - after reading a lot of mysteries set among the aristocracy, Lord Peter Wimsey etc, it's interesting to go below stairs and get the other side.

I also thought it was quite realistic that there is a "them and us" divide - in some books, like the Maisie Dobbs ones, and also in series like Downton Abbey, the grand householders spend rather more time than seems likely worrying about their servants' personal problems!

However, I did feel the historical details bogged the mystery down - like you, I often love these aspects of historical fiction and I'm thoroughly enjoying all the detail about everything from food to obscure medieval laws in The Huntsman's Tale by Ann Swinfen. But in Merisham Lodge I thought the descriptions of cooking etc got a bit too much and quite repetitive, although I still enjoyed the book. I'm hoping the two heroines get a chance to venture a bit further afield in the next book!

I enjoyed this book, maybe as I had read the short story first , I was waiting to see how the characters got mixed up in another crime.
I didn't mind the cooking parts, but did find myself feeling somewhat tired through all the descriptions of how exhausted everyone was.
I will read on as I am interested to see what the future holds for this very likable pair

I could see why the author was keen to bring some realism into the book. Often, as Judy says, servants in novels seem to have endless time and space to roam. As we discovered in one of the Marple books, a servant at the seaside never left the hotel, so that was unlikely! However, to constantly push the exhaustion and ill feeling, did depress you as a reader - or, as Jill says, make you just feel tired!

Did anyone guess the killer correctly in this one? I didn't. I thought the twist and the way that Joan suddenly guesses the relationship between 2 characters are quite cleverly done - slight shades of Christie?

I did, but not immediately. Christie is, undoubtedly, the most copied author of her generation - but I rarely guess her murderers!

Susan wrote: "I did, but not immediately. Christie is, undoubtedly, the most copied author of her generation - but I rarely guess her murderers!"

I think her twists are usually very hard to guess!

In Merisham Lodge, did anyone think there were hints of romance for Joan and the policeman (can't remember his name?) I hadn't thought of this but a couple of Goodreads reviewers were speculating!

yes definitely hints of romance. lots of him looking at her differently, hoping to see her again, making sure she doesn't put herself in harm's way. I bet anything by book three (at least) it's a budding romance.

Michelle wrote: "yes definitely hints of romance. lots of him looking at her differently, hoping to see her again, making sure she doesn't put herself in harm's way. I bet anything by book three (at least) it's a b..."

Thanks Michelle, must admit this had passed me by - I just thought he was being kind! But I would like to see Joan get some romance in her life, so hope this will develop in the later books.

If anyone reads the next one, let us know whether the same detective appears and then we'll know. It is always curious how the same person seems to appear, no matter which area of the country the crime is committed in!

I enjoyed this book for much the same reasons Gillian stated.

Rosina, I agree that it would have been easy for the author to look up correct styles of address. :(

Generally, there seems to have been a good response to this - even if with reservations.

I enjoyed the book-- it seemed to be on par with most of the historical "cozy" mysteries I've read. The details of Joan's job were really interesting at first, but then her work started making me tired! The descriptions of food made me hungry-- there were a couple of dishes I would like to find recipes for. The mystery itself was interesting; I knew Duncan was involved, but I fell for the red herring that Rosalind was having an affair with Lord Cartwright. I found the constant references to the happenings at Asharton Manor to be very offputting-- it made me feel as if I had come late into the series and had missed some information that I needed to have to fully understand this book. (Especially as it is listed as #1 in a series.) For that reason, I am giving the book 3 rather than 4 stars.

You did better than me by working out that Duncan was involved, Suki - I didn't work it out at all!

Glad you enjoyed it - I do agree with you about the Asharton Manor references. Really this should be marked as book 2 in the series.

There was a loose end in this book, with the other maid who gets pregnant, Nora - I would have liked to find out more about what happens to her. Verity hints she will have an abortion, but will still lose her job. Hoping we find out more about Nora in the next book in the series. I thought this storyline was very interesting but seems rather rushed.

Yes, that's right, Judy. There was a loose end with the maid and also, Verity tended to keep things back a bit too much. I felt the book would have benefited from an editor, but I know the author is self published. I could understand her desire to get her work out there, but sometimes you realise what editors really do and how important they are. You notice their absence, more than their appearance...

I agree the book would have benefited from an editor, Susan, but after trying to find a publisher for 15 years I think it is understandable the author decided to go it alone - and her success is quite an inspiration. :)

I've just finished this book and agree with many of the comments above, especially all the references to Asharton Manor. Having decided to block those out, I liked the mystery and the details of life for the servants.

I also felt Duncan was involved, but didn't think of the connection with Rosalind, and I thought the way Joan spotted it was believable and well thought out.

Whoops! I was wondering why there were no new posts on the Merisham Lodge discussion and worrying that I had offended people--and I come back to a lot of interesting discussion. Clearly I have messed up my notifications for this group! I'll sort that out, but I also interpreted the policeman's interest in Joan as a possible romance, one that I'm curious to see continue.

Thank you for the information about the Asharton Manor stories, Jay-me and Judy! I appreciate it.

I read this book in 3 -4 hours (an 11-inning baseball game for the US sports fans), so it isn't much of a commitment. I like the two main characters and their friends below stairs, but I doubt I will remember the story for very long. I read the prior novella at the beginning of the month and could recall almost nothing - even after rereading the blurb. I enjoyed the 'day in the life of staff' aspect, but it is very repetitive (reflecting their reality). I might read others, but there are so many other books I enjoy more.

Regarding romance: I anticipate romance between the Inspector and Joan and see he appears in the next book as well. (I always cheat by looking ahead, but only after I finish the current book.)

I also saw Joan and Verity are still working for the daughter and was wondering if she ended up with her mother's money. Tracking it, with my limited knowledge, it went to her husband, but then I would expect it to go to his son, also out of the picture, so to his heirs? Assuming he had no will, would it revert back to his step-mother's daughter? Because it was her mother's money? Entirely unimportant, of course and this is fiction so Ms. Grace can make the daughter as rich as she wants.

Which parent owned Merisham Lodge?

About editors, I sympathize with self-publishing, but an editor, or at least a careful reader, is needed! The book is set in September and the start of fall weather is highlighted. Just a few pages later spring sunshine and spring air are mentioned. Then, towards the end, a mysterious staff member Nancy appears a couple of times; I assume she is Maggie. Niggling, I admit, but it annoys me when the author is sloppy. I don't know enough about titles to catch their misuse.

One more tidbit: Following on my introduction to 'marrow' as a vegetable in a prior book, this time I googled 'swede' and found it is a rutabaga (which I barely know either, but have at least heard of them).

I use swedes in stews, Sandy. They are a little like turnips, but harder to cut :)

Sandy wrote: "About editors, I sympathize with self-publishing, but an editor, or at least a careful reader, is needed! The book is set in September and the start of fall weather is highlighted. Just a few pages..."

Wow, I hadn't spotted all this, Sandy. I did notice that the spelling of the Cartwright family's name changes between the novella and Merisham Lodge, but I guessed it was a typo in the novella.

Gillian wrote: "Whoops! I was wondering why there were no new posts on the Merisham Lodge discussion and worrying that I had offended people--and I come back to a lot of interesting discussion. Clearly I have mess..."

No worries, Gillian! Hope you enjoy the other Asharton Manor stories if you try them. I think I clearly overlooked hints of romance for Joan and will watch out for them if I do get to the later books in this series.

I do totally agree about the need for proof reading. I get proof copies all the time; from big publishing houses too, which often contain silly errors. Most are picked up, but it is obvious that those who are supposed to check a book carefully (i.e. read it all the way through) are not doing so.

Sandy, good questions about the money - I don't know the answers and will admit the finer plot details are already fading in my mind! But I will be interested to see who has the money in the next book...

I thought the father of the house, Cartwright, lived in the house with his former wife, so, probably Merisham Lodge was his? I know she died in London, but most people of that class had a country house and a London residence - rented for the season if they were not quite, quite... as it were!

I enjoyed both the mystery and its precursor novella. It kept my interest which is why I rated it 5. Not often you get a sleuth who is below stairs. I'll have to put other ones on my wishlist!

More sleuths seem to come from below stairs than previously, Stephanie. They are mostly modern mysteries, though, rather than original GA books. Mrs Jeffries, Death Below Stairs, etc. I guess programmes like "Upstairs, Downstairs," and "Downton Abbey," made below stairs seem more interesting.

I haven't read many below stairs mysteries, so am interested to hear of these others. It would also be interesting to see one where more of the mystery involves life below stairs.

I am sure that we can come put with some! I read a Severn Book a while ago, in which the housekeeper was the sleuth, but it has completely escaped my mind... I will have to wrack my mind, but let's see if anyone can come up with some good titles?

I think Mrs. Jeffries series is one in which the housekeeper and her friends help a Scotland Yard detective solve the cases.

Looking at the comments, it does seem that quite a few of us would be happy to read on, so, generally, I think this book has been a successful choice.

On more below stairs mysteries, Death Below Stairs which you mentioned sounds good, Susan - I've been enjoying a different series, the Captain Lacey regency mysteries, by this author, Jennifer Ashley. I'd also like to try Mrs Jeffries.

I've also found a children's book, The Last Duchess by Laura Powell, about a ladies' maid working for an Arch-Duchess, which sounds interesting though I haven't read it - oddly though it is billed as book 2 in the Silver Service series, but I don't see any sign of book 1 on Amazon or GR!

Susan wrote: "Looking at the comments, it does seem that quite a few of us would be happy to read on, so, generally, I think this book has been a successful choice."

Yes, I think so too, though perhaps there weren't as many plot twists to discuss as with some of our other books.

Judy wrote: Yes, I think so too, though perhaps there weren't as many plot twists to discuss as with some of our other books.

Sometimes though a gentle murder mystery is what is needed!

Hilary, I agree. Sometimes I just want something fun and comforting...

Thanks for the recommendations of downstairs mysteries, Susan, Corrie and Judy!