Our Shared Shelf discussion

I know, the last book of the year has already been announced, and this is about the first book of the year. But today I scrolled through my bookmarks and I came across this link:

http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/sto...

In the article the author writes how she read "Vagina Monologues" out of curiosity - because it was about vaginas and since she has MRKH, and thus wasn't born with one, she was really curious.
What saddened her was that one monologue was missing - the monologue of the missing vagina. And so she wrote this article, which is a monologue about a Missing Vagina and the story that it entails.

Read it, it's vital. It is as important as every other monologue in the book.

And then, what do you think of it? Of all that she has written?

In a week I'll have the book. Where do I start? I read this article now or I wait later?

Ester wrote: "In a week I'll have the book. Where do I start? I read this article now or I wait later?"

You can read the book first or the article first, it doesn't matter really. Just steel yourself before you do that, these articles are never easy to read.
What I see nowadays is how there is a willingness to be inclusive, but in the end you aren't really because you omit certain people altogether.

MeerderWörter wrote: "Ester wrote: "In a week I'll have the book. Where do I start? I read this article now or I wait later?"

You can read the book first or the article first, it doesn't matter really. Just steel yours..."
Thanks for answering. I want to know more about these people :)

MeerderWörter wrote: "Ester wrote: "In a week I'll have the book. Where do I start? I read this article now or I wait later?"

You can read the book first or the article first, it doesn't matter really. Just steel yours..."He read the article about this woman with MRKH syndrome and all the bad things that have had to happen in her life. As you know, he has not read the book yet, but I suppose it can be another article in this book that is not what we call a conventional woman.
With respect to what can be omitted from people who have no sense for definite sex, I suppose we do it for the bad and you know, man or woman. And I do care and I want to know more :)

Dear Keith,
I have exactly the same issues with it. Who gives them the power over our bodies to decide as they please? Why is it that staying the way we are is never an option? And who decides what is "normal"?
Who decides anyways what is a "normal" vagina? There are closed-off vaginas out there, vaginas that are only a centimeter long, or some are 5 centimeters long... nature loves diversity, who are we to always put everything in certain criteria and then to classify everything else as "needing to be fixed"?



Dear Ester,
I'll see where I can find something in Spanish:)
There are monologues from cisgender as well as transgender people in there (as they have vaginas as well - with their very own issues to take care of).
The abbreviation MRKH comes from the doctors who first "discovered" it, I assume, as Küstner-Hauser are German surnames...
A definite sex? Well, one can argue that there is no definite sex, that male and female are just two extremes on the end of a spectrum (and that accordingly MRKH falls somewhere closer to the female extreme than the male)


Dear Emma,

I think that a new edition woud need a general revision - not that any of the monologues need to be taken out of the book, but rather that many many more need to be included. Times change and so should books that depict issues that change over time.

MeerderWörter wrote: "Dear Keith,
I have exactly the same issues with it. Who gives them the power over our bodies to decide as they please? Why is it that staying the way we are is never an option? And who decides what..."


Thank you, I await those monologues with avidity. And you know what? In the end we are all the same, we are people :)

This is a great article! Never heard of MRKH syndrome before so I'm glad I learned something new today. Furthermore, this article shows us the sad truth of our society and mindset that always gives us "certain choices". It's time to see that there is no such thing as normal, the world is more diverse than that.

Thank you for sharing, I learn something new every day. This kind of thing really upsets me, I mean 1 in 5000 is not rare! I feel awful for this woman and many others who have to go through these ordeals. And not because they have different privates, but because they are put through so much unnecessary trauma. I'm so angry right now! It brings me back to a biology course I took in university called Humans and Sex where I first learned about intersex. It is also very common to have babies born with genitals somewhere in between the typical male and female (it is a spectrum!) and yet we don't hear about it. Why? Because people are ashamed of it! Parents are confused and doctors want to fix it. Children are forced to endure invasive procedures to make them "normal" before they even get a chance for their bodies and minds to develop, before they even get a chance to figure out if they are boy or girl or anyone in between. Their doctors and parents do what they can so their child can fit in with the crowd but what actually happens is they spend all their youth in and out of hospitals made to feel like something is wrong with them instead of going to school and making friends. Does it make sense to have their childhood stolen from them just so their private parts can look "normal"?

Kat wrote: "Thank you for sharing, I learn something new every day. This kind of thing really upsets me, I mean 1 in 5000 is not rare! I feel awful for this woman and many others who have to go through these o..."

If their privates even look "normal" after that! IGM is equatable to FGM in hospital settings, come on, who is in favour of FGM? So why being in favour of IGM?!
On a sidenote, 1 in 2000 infants are born with genitals that cannot be classified as either male or female according to our rigid standards. God damn it, for real!

MeerderWörter wrote: "I know, the last book of the year has already been announced, and this is about the first book of the year. But today I scrolled through my bookmarks and I came across this link:

http://www.ourbod..."
Hello again MeerderWörter :). Some time ago I read "Monologues of the Vagina", but, I wanted to tell you that I read a review about a girl who had been born without a vagina or uterus. Do you think it refers to someone who was born with MRKH?

Ester wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "I know, the last book of the year has already been announced, and this is about the first book of the year. But today I scrolled through my bookmarks and I came across this li..."

Yes I think so. There are other variations where a girl can be born without a uterus, but as far as I know MRKH is the only variation where both the vagina and uterus are absent.

XOXY
MeerderWörter

Emma wrote: "Ester wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "I know, the last book of the year has already been announced, and this is about the first book of the year. But today I scrolled through my bookmarks and I came ..."Hi Emma, ​​I do not remember exactly, but, it was about a very pretty young woman who had approached after a performance in the theater, to talk to Eve. I explain that in adolescence comparing her vagina with her friend's, she saw that her was different and she told her father with whom she had great confidence. She was quite traumatized and her father took her to the doctor, making a exploration they saw that she did not have a vagina or uterus. So, when she agreed, they operated on her to rebuild her vagina and today she felt great.

MeerderWörter wrote: "Ester wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "I know, the last book of the year has already been announced, and this is about the first book of the year. But today I scrolled through my bookmarks and I came ..."
Hello again, thanks for answering my question.

Ester wrote: "Emma wrote: "Ester wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "I know, the last book of the year has already been announced, and this is about the first book of the year. But today I scrolled through my bookmark..."

I still remember that one... that one's so cringeworthy. Why was she never given the opportunity to stay the way she was. MRKH has other characteristics as well, not just for sex characteristics, and it is sad to see how these are not addressed in connection with Müller-Rokitanski-Küstner-Hauser (what a name).
A woman can live perfectly healthy without a uterus and/or vagina, it is about the gonads that are important.

Emma wrote: "Ester wrote: "Emma wrote: "Ester wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "I know, the last book of the year has already been announced, and this is about the first book of the year. But today I scrolled throu..."

I'm not against surgery, I am against IGM!

MeerderWörter wrote: "I know, the last book of the year has already been announced, and this is about the first book of the year. But today I scrolled through my bookmarks and I came across this link:

http://www.ourbod..."

Thanks for this post. I had never heard of MRKH, so now I've read all about it. Amazing that 1 in 5,000 women are affected but it is very much unknown even among women. I feel much more enlightened.

I think a woman born with MRKH should have the opportunity to choose surgery if she wants it, but nobody should choose for her as a teen, which is almost always when it is identified (someone finally investigates after you don't begin menstruation. On the outside nothing looks different, so the parents would never know. What's interesting is that while the vagina is either short or missing, the woman still has all of the hormones and other signs of puberty, including sexual desire. I imagine that the vagina can be lived without entirely while the woman can still enjoy sexual pleasure. Anyway, more of us should know about it and surgery should always be a choice of the patient when she's old enough to decide. The personal account you linked us to was heartbreaking.

The most I ever learned about hermaphroditism (is that a word?) came from the excellent book Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides. Otherwise hardly ever mentioned.

Judy wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "I know, the last book of the year has already been announced, and this is about the first book of the year. But today I scrolled through my bookmarks and I came across this li..."

Hey, I haven't heard about MRKH before I read this post and I am intersex. It's really a taboo to talk about it in general, and well, it worked pretty well in favour of the perceived sex dichotomy.
1 in 5000 is really many, isn't it?
Of course a person with MRKH should have the opportunity to choose having a vaginoplasty (that is the repairing or construction of a vagina, and no, it isn't pretty). I don't want to drift too much into doctor's talk, but yes, ovaries are normally there, and since everyone starts out with a vagina, it also makes sense that some women with MRKH have one, even tho it is shorter.
Your thoughts on whether a woman can still have sexual pleasure without a vagina, I would say it depends on what you count as sexual pleasure.

As I said, I am not against surgery, but intersex genital mutilation, and surgery only after FULLY informed prior consent, meaning an explanation of what happens during the procedure, the risks during the procedure, the short-term and long-term outcomes and the outcomes if the procedure doesn't take place (oh and then please some time to think about all of it...). And of course the patient has to be old enough to decide.

Yes, hermaphroditism is a word, but, while it was in use as a medical term, it is not any longer. Nowadays the official definition is Disorders of Sex Development or Differences of Sex Development. Please don't use either of them, as they are highly problematic, as you can probably see already. Back to hermaphroditism: Yes, it was used as a medical term until the 90s, and that's also why in Middlesex Cal is refered to as a hermaphrodite, but please don't use it either. It is a term with a very long history, that is very negatively connotated and it is simply impossible for humans to match the criteria of a "hermaphrodite". Snails yes, they are hermaphrodites, but not us. There are some who use this term but never use it without the person's prior approval because of its loaded history.
We normally refer to ourselves as intersex, because it stresses the fact that it is between the male and female sex. We have characteristics of either of them. Thus intersex, between the sexes.

I hope I could give you a tiny glimpse into the world of intersex. It's really interesting.

MeerderWörter wrote: "Ester wrote: "Emma wrote: "Ester wrote: "MeerderWörter wrote: "I know, the last book of the year has already been announced, and this is about the first book of the year. But today I scrolled throu..."Yes, it sounded pretty frivolous, his father only cared that his girl was a complete woman (more or less he was saying it).