Science Fiction & Fantasy Award Winning Book Group discussion

Hi everyone. This is for discussion of January's group read.
Doomsday Book by Connie Willis.

I've only read one Willis book before and enjoyed it and heard many good things about this book and the series as a whole so am greatly looking forward to this.

This is a four book series so I'm thinking of the following three months dedicated to them.

Use spoiler code if it's anything in-depth you're talking about.

Book 1 - Chapters 1 to 4

(view spoiler)[
This is a good introduction to the time travel idea and how it works in this world. It’s got the familiar Oxford setting that’s featured in many other books before but manages to be not entirely academic. It has a certain competitive nature between the different departments and their wishes for time travel. The characters are already making me smile with the way they interact with each other.
<\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

Book 1 - Chapters 5 to 9

(view spoiler)[
I’m really impressed with this so far. Willis has created characters you really want to know more about and see how the story unfolds. It’s an interesting mix of both the serious nature of the flu and Kivrin’s disastrous time in medieval England to the bickering nature of the academics.
(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

This is a reread for me which I'm happy about. I like to reread books and last year I didn't do enough of it. I spent the year trying to reduce my TBR pile which didn't leave me time for rereads.

Book 1 - Chapters 1 to 4

(view spoiler)[ I think I mentioned when we read Time Ships that I'm not a huge fan of time travel stories. My mind usually ends up in a 'yeah but if this happened then this wouldn't/couldn't have happened' knot and even if I enjoyed the story it was somehow diminished by the seeming paradoxes. Willis easily takes care of this problem for me with 'slippage'. It's not perfect and it's a little 'hand-wavey' but it works for me.

The first thing that I noticed that went right past me the first time is the opening quote by Ronald Blythe.
'What a ringer needs most is not strength but the ability to keep time . . . You must bring these two things together in your mind and let them rest there forever - bells and time, bells and time.'

The Western State's Women's Guild of Change and Handbell Ringers arrive soon after Kivrin has departed. And when Kivrin arrives in the past she tries to use the ringing of the church bells to figure out where she has landed. The bell thing is something I missed in my first read.

A lot of names, but they set themselves in my mind very quickly and so this time I'm reading much faster and the connections are much clearer in my mind. I remember my likes and dislikes and this time around I can check to see if I'm being fair or not. Maybe Gilchrist has a reason for being an asshat. Having read two of Willis' books I really enjoy her characters.

Joe you mentioned there being different departments. My first time through I decided they were in different universities. But I guess it could also be different colleges in one university? I'm not sure of the heirarchy or connections there. (hide spoiler)]

Book 2 - Chapters 10 to 14

(view spoiler)[
Both storylines are now really interesting and I’m very curious as to where this will go. The language problem that Kivrin has been having I’m still trying to figure out what went wrong there and guess what it will turn out to be. The implanted translator is working but it’s struggling to cope with the different variants. It’s been programmed by future historians so whilst it’s as accurate as they can manage it’s not going to be perfect of course. There is still something more going on, and wrong, here.
The American bell ringers coming over at the same time as she went back, with the bells she heard whilst arriving, is an interesting connection. Is it the same bells but through time somehow due to the process being affected or something else?
(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Book 1 - Chapters 5 - 9

(view spoiler)[ The proverbial crap has hit the fan by the end of Book 1. Most of the action has taken place in the 'present' timeline but Kivrin isn't doing any better in the 'past' timeline. Funny that I got anxious at times while reading even though I know what happens.

I preferred Kivrin's story the first time I read this. Dunworthy's timeline has a humorous almost slapstick quality to it at times that I felt didn't quite fit in with the story. You can see a little bit of it in Book 1.

"Gilchrist and Latimer were coming. ' . . . hope Ms Engle has the opportunity to observe a death,' Gilchrist was saying. 'Attitudes towards death in the 1300s differed greatly from ours. Death was a common and accepted part of life, and the contemps were incapable of feeling loss or grief.'"
That was from Chapter 4 and yup, I still can't stand that guy. (hide spoiler)]

Book 2 - Chapters 10 - 14

(view spoiler)[Kivrin's descriptions of the hygiene and living conditions of that time period are of course frightening in and of themselves, but her descriptions of the diseases that she is afraid that she has contracted are even worse. One of the interesting things to think about in this story (as in real life) is how far mankind has progressed with technology and yet disease/sickness is still able to screw everything up.

I kept trying to read the foreign languages out loud and try to figure out what they meant. I got a few words but for the most part I failed miserably. It was fun though.

This reread is going much faster than my first read and I feel much more immersed in the world. Since my brain doesn't have to try to remember who everyone is and how everything fits together it's able to remember more of the descriptive text and paint a brighter picture in my mind. (hide spoiler)]

Book 2 - Chapters 15 to 20

(view spoiler)[
The interactions between Kivrin and Agnes make me smile as Agnes so badly wants her to be her nurse and is scared she’ll leave once she finds out who she really is. This just focuses and reminds you of how the parenting style and way of life was in those years. She’s not too cared about frankly, other than what she might be able to help them with in regards to her marriage to some richer noble in years to come. This is brought to the fore far more when her sister meets her intended who turns out to be a 50+ year old man only interested in using her for breeding purposes. Obviously disturbing and wrong by all modern standards but accepted then. I did not like reading that section.
In the modern sections I’m not liking Gilchrist. My opinion of him is that’s he’s an arrogant idiot who’s full of himself; waiting to see if I’ll be proved wrong but doubt it. Their treatment and apathy towards time travel and it’s effects is remarkable. They take it so much for granted and don’t bother to think about it too much anymore. Taking what would be the most advanced piece of technology on Earth for granted and ignoring possible risks because they’re just so normal is incredibly stupid and i’m wondering if that will get taken into account by anyone. Again I doubt it as that’s just the way the society works at that moment.
(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Book 2 - Chapters 21 to 23 - end of book 2

(view spoiler)[
We finally learn the year is the 1340’s so something definitely went wrong. What this means to Kivrin I can’t guess. My only idea is she could leave something in the dig site that Montoya is excavating, a time capsule of sorts to say when and where she actually is. The details of time travel and the paradoxes that go along with it haven’t been explored in depth so that may not be possible.
(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Book 2 - Chapters 15 to 23

(view spoiler)[This section is the setup for the doom that is just around the corner. Kivrin has recovered from the flu and explores her environs and gets to know most of the people that surround her. She becomes the caregiver for the two young girls and we as the reader become attached to them. We get to see the horrible conditions that they live in and how their lives and customs are different from ours. Father Roche, who Kivrin initally thought was a cutthroat, is just about the only likable adult.

And then the bishop's clerk gets sick, falls on Rosemund, and Kivrin recognizes the doom that is coming.

In the meantime Dunworthy is running in circles as the situation gets worse while he is unable to do anything about it. (hide spoiler)]

Book 3 - Chapters 24 to 30

(view spoiler)[
Kivrin is having to watch everyone die around her and she can’t do anything to really help. It’s extremely dark and brutal and a example of what is must of been like in those times. She also knows the year and has gone past the extraction date so fears how she’ll manage to get back, if ever.

The virus has finally been stopped and brought under control in Oxford, after serious effort and multiple deaths. I find it interesting how despite having the technology for time travel they still can suffer from illness and getting the cure and antidotes for them dispersed whee they need to be. I’m thinking this could be saying ‘despite technology we’re still human and mortal and can still suffer from sickness’.

I’m really liking Colin, I think he’s a good character who’s trying to help despite everyone dismissing him as a child plus the death of his aunt Mary. I didn’t expect Gilchrist to die, I expected him to argue and complain that he did nothing wrong until the end of the book and then something would be done about his stupidity.
(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Book 3 - Chapter 24 to Finish

(view spoiler)[ Ok, I admit it. I finished the book in two sittings because I didn't want to prolong the pain. I have children of my own and reading about Agnes screaming for Kivrin and Rosemund repeatedly asking about her father just sets the hook that little bit harder.

A basic theological problem is raised in this section and I'll avoid that like the plague other than to say that Father Roche is a great character and I enjoyed him so much more than Father Sandoz.

You're right Joe, Colin is a good character and Gilchrist gets off easy (if you can call dying easy). I hoped he would get his comeuppance too.

I really enjoy the way the book ends and the connection between Kivrin and Dunworthy. The three of them hearing the bells through the net made me smile.
This was one of my best reads of last year and will probably be the same for this year. (hide spoiler)]

Book 3 - Chapter 24 to end of book.

(view spoiler)[
What an ending. It’s the Black Death so a large proportion of the remaining people dying towards the end I expected but everyone other than Kivrin was particularly brutal. Agnes dying shook Kivrin up beyond what she thought she could take and then the priest, Roche, going at the end was just the final thing for her to take. The fact she was still able to think and function was impressive. Willis really writes these characters so you genuinely care and want them to survive.

I know the other three books in this series are not related to this one other than the Oxford setting and time travel which is almost a shame as it would of been nice to see where Dunworthy and Kivrin had ended up going and also what Colin had turned out to be. His character at the end was great.

The combination of Light, dark and humour in this was amazing and I’ll be rating this extremely highly.

Jon, I was really liking the bells connection between the ages and places. There was just something about the bells ringing and everyone being slightly unsure as to what they mean.
(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Jon wrote: "This is a reread for me which I'm happy about. I like to reread books and last year I didn't do enough of it. I spent the year trying to reduce my TBR pile which didn't leave me time for rereads.

..."

I think I missed a lot of the references and meaning behind what was going on with the bells on my first read as well. I've been meaning to get back to this book since I read The Nine Tailors by Dorothy Sayers and realized that it was in part the inspiration for the ringers in Doomsday Book.

Thanks Mo, I think. You've given me fresh impetus to continue on with the Lord Peter Wimsey series. Unfortunately I've only read Whose Body? so far, which means I have a long way to go.

I'm sure that I've missed some if not all of the symbolism with the bells. I did like the thought of the bells calling them home at the end.
I saw a review for The Nine Tailors that has a quote from the book about bells that "mark the passing of a man" and I immediately thought of the section where Kivrin is listening to the bell towers and noting the deaths of children, women and men by the number of rings of the bell.