The Idiot by Dostoevsky discussion

For discussion of chapters 15-16, the last two chapters of book one.

Chapter 15 is an interesting chapter. Dostoevsky really excels in revealing character through group dynamics which reveal how each personality related to the others.

Now we see Rogozhin at least as reckless as Natasha - ready to "buy her" with 100,000 rubles. Apparently she's used to being treated as an object - she demeans men for having so little respect that they throw themselves at her and at the same time she demeans herself. When you don't like and respect yourself, how can you care for someone who values you?

It seems like men are projecting all kinds of fantasies onto Natasha. The General is shocked that she speaks in such a demeaning way because he considered her to be refined and sophisticated. Myshkin has already decided that she's blameless, "an honest woman", one who has "suffered in hell and remained unscathed."

So how can he be so sure of this? Is he again relying on intuition, but this time his intuition has gone cockeyed because of his attraction and wishful thinking. I am reminded of Don Quixote. Is he looking at Aldonza and seeing Dulcinea?

Myshkin has known her only a day but chooses to marry her and declares "I love you. I'd die for you." So despite the occasional clarity and perceptiveness he has, he has fallen under Nastasya's spell and is entranced, maybe as possessed as Rogozhin but in an entirely different way - more spiritual, aesthetic. It's as if Dostoevsky presentation of dualities is being portrayed as Myshkin as a higher love (but based on self-deception) and Rogozhin as lower "love", primarily passion.

ALSO in chapter 15 --
Don't you think that the Prince's large inheritance is a bit of a deus ex machina? Sudden windfalls tend to occur frequently and suddenly change people's lives in 19th century novels (Didn't Rogozhin suddenly get a big inheritance too?). Granted, the nobility were wealthy via past investments, and therefore when the old generation died, then the younger generation WOULD receive a lot of money - at least the eldest male in the family would.

Reflections on chapter 16 -
Nastassya's attitude toward Mishkin - and maybe everyone - seems ambivalent. She calls him an idiot, and an innocent child who needs a nanny.

But then she refers to him as being kind, honest and sensitive and even at the end of the chapter says, "you're the first genuine man I've ever met" (though I'm curious what other translations say about that, since I find the parallel between innocent child, kind, honest, sensitive AND genuine man to be a bit off).

Her decision NOT to marry him because she didn't want to ruin his life - if that's her true motive - sounds like she has a bit of real decency in her. Maybe indeed she has an ideal of purity and goodness, and her own self-destructiveness is not only because of Totsky violating her but because she feels that she betrayed her own standards.

The way she handles the money and everything else in this scene definitely leads me to think that she's on the edge of madness. She disdains money, men and herself.

Also on chapter 16 --

Sparknotes' analysis of thisdramatic chapter refers to Ptisyn's reference to the Japanese custom of harakari. One expression of harakari can occur when a person is deeply offended by another. Rather than directly express anger toward another, he kills himself in front of the offender. It's a kind of "I'll show you how much misery and shame you caused me by destroying myself so that you know the extent of your cruel action."

So considering this interpretation, Nastasya is running off with Rogozhin in part to show Totsky how he's ruined her.

What do you (if anyone's there) think of this interpretation? What's your opinion of this chapter?

And about Ganya in this chapter --
I originally interpreted Ganya's failure to reach for the money in the flames as fear of getting burnt - and thought that his fear was greater here than his greed.

But Nastasya interprets his hesitation as his pride - as does the one commentary I'm reading, in Sparknotes (online). She respects him for that, apparently because she judges people (including herself) who are willing to demean themselves for money.

Ganya's fainting seems a bit odd here. Women in 19th century novels tend to faint occasionally - which I thought was mostly because of the tight corsets they wore decreasing their lung capacity and oxygen. But a man fainting? (Maybe in his vanity and desire to look ravishing in his clothes, Ganya wore a corset too! <-: ) .

Do you think that Dostoevsky meant for us to view this fainting as an expression of Ganya incredible emotional turmoil in regard to wanting the money but not wanting to demean himself and burn himself by reaching for it.