Aussie Readers discussion

Just curious about how you think literature should be defined. I am having an ongoing discussion about what books fit into 'Literature written in English category' for a book-fair. There is also a category for 'World Literature (translated)'. These 2 categories come under a society and culture type section, and attracts people purchasing texts for school and University. Looking forward to your responses and any discussion.

I might be off track in what you are aiming for, but I think of English literature as written works written by native speaking English writers.

I think of world literature as writings that are recognised around the world as literature and to me it would be works that have been translated into other languages and circulated to countries beyond the country it was originally circulated.

This makes me think The Thorn Birds by Colleen McCullough , translated from English to many languages, could be considered 'English Literature' and also 'world literature'.

The Angel's Game by Carlos Ruiz Zafón, which has been translated from Spanish to English would be considered Spanish Literature as well as 'World Literature.'

Both of those books are translated from an initial language to another and distributed beyond the initial distribution country from a native tongue to another language speaking country or countries.

Many books, likely the majority, are never translated and therefore they are not sold to territories beyond the native language where the book is first published and remain literature within the language it is produced.

Just to be different, though I agree with what Sharon said ~ I think of literature as all those books I don't have any interest in reading. LOL.

If you go to a bookshop like Dymocks for eg. they split up all the genres like crime, pnr, ya, etc etc and what's left end up under literature. Mostly good works recognised as good fiction, but usually of no interest to me personally.

Sandra wrote: "Just to be different, though I agree with what Sharon said ~ I think of literature as all those books I don't have any interest in reading. LOL.

If you go to a bookshop like Dymocks for eg. they ..."

I believe 'literary fiction' could be considered works that transcend genre literature and have something special or important or a manner of saying something that makes it artistically superior to other works, but I often think the term is used pretentiously.

There is an interesting definition of 'literary fiction' here

https://study.com/academy/lesson/lite...

Well, that was interesting and reinforces my decision not to read that sort of book.

LOL

The Childhood of Jesus by J.M. Coetzee is considered 'literary fiction'

I read it a while ago, I really liked it, and it is well written, but I had no concrete idea what it was meant to be about at the end. This tells me, that 'literary fiction' is in the eyes of the beholder.

Review here.

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

:D An experience I could live without.

One of our previous mods wrote this definition for our Literary Fiction genre thread.
"For the purpose of defining the genre; Literary Fiction is often a term that refers to pieces of work that hold literary merit. Often complex, literate, multilayered novels that wrestle with universal dilemmas."
I take that very loosely when I am choosing books for that thread :)

Sharon wrote: "I might be off track in what you are aiming for, but I think of English literature as written works written by native speaking English writers.

I think of world literature as writings that are rec..."

Thanks, Sharon, that's a good point you make about books like the Thornbirds that have been translated from English into other languages meeting to criteria to be considered as literature.

What I am aiming for is how to separate the two categories of literature (English/World) from general fiction categories.
I am thinking along the lines of criteria such as: stood the test of time with recent reprints of older books. For example, Revolutionary Road written in the 1950s with a recent new Vintage Classics edition.

Perhaps have a cut off date of at least 30 or 40 years old. Then are recent major literary prize winners included? Very difficult to define.

If you are thinking along the lines of trying to define 'literary fiction' within English Literature and World Literature... to steal Jane Austin's phrase... to me it would be books that's are 'universally acknowledged' as having merit, even if not considered 'literary'.

I don't think you can go past global readership, sales, and to do that, they need to be translated, unless I am misunderstanding, and yes, standing the test of time. I think if you were to go to Amazon, The Thorn Birds would still be selling well and on the the bestselling list.

Mmmm is Pride and Prejudice translated?

Many many times Sharon.

Sandra wrote: "Well, that was interesting and reinforces my decision not to read that sort of book."

Sharon, That study example is simply another person's opinion. I think the term 'literary Fiction' can be very fluid. I think you're missing out if you don't try the genre.

Goodreads definition is: Literary fiction is a term that has come into common usage in the early 1960s. The term is principally used to distinguish "serious fiction" which is a work that claims to hold literary merit, in comparison from genre fiction and popular fiction. The name literature is sometimes used for this genre, although it can also refer to a broader category of writing.

Ah, Betty, you mean Susan?

I will read whatever takes my fancy regardless of what genre it has been labelled ;)

Sharon wrote: "I will read whatever takes my fancy regardless of what genre it has been labelled ;)"

And that's my opinion as well :)

Me too!
I think the definition Bette provides is spot on.

Sharon wrote: "Ah, Betty, you mean Susan?

I will read whatever takes my fancy regardless of what genre it has been labelled ;)"

Sharon, looking back, I think I meant Sandra. Sorry about that, :)

Thanks very much for all your input. It does seem to be quite difficult to categorise Literature/Classic Literature. You have given me some good ideas to work with.

Phrynne wrote: "One of our previous mods wrote this definition for our Literary Fiction genre thread.
""For the purpose of defining the genre; Literary Fiction is often a term that refers to pieces of work that hold literary merit. Often complex, literate, multilayered novels that wrestle with universal dilemmas..."

Sounds like most of my modern day Mills and Boons!!!

I personally think that any book is literature - and can be meritorious within it's own genre.

I remember a huge hue and cry about kids reading the Harry Potter books. How the books were not "literature" but :popular fiction" (as if that demeaned them) and would ruin the precious little minds for ever. But for the first time many kids found out that reading is not a chore forced upon you by teachers but a ticket to another world - an escape.

Even now my daughter is battling a school over her 7 year old son's books - he has hated every single book that the school assigned him - and they graded him as a non-reader. Then she presented them with a long list of chaptered books that he has read - that he reads with feeling and passion and asks for the next book in the series. And little Miss four who is already reading quite well - who is not supposed to be reading yet - just looking at pictures!

Don't label books - don't put people in boxes because they don't read certain types of 'worthy' books. People read - full stop.

I like the idea of calling it 'Serious' fiction instead of literary fiction - it really grates on my that a lot of the books I read are sniffed at. I don't read serious fiction anymore - I used to- but there is so much misery in the world being bombarded at me from every direction that now my reading reflects my desire to cut off from it in my down time.

Well said Sally :)

I love what predictive text did to your last few words Sally:)

Haha! We knew what she meant though ;)

Sally906 wrote: "Phrynne wrote: "One of our previous mods wrote this definition for our Literary Fiction genre thread.
""For the purpose of defining the genre; Literary Fiction is often a term that refers to pieces..."

Very well said, Sally.

Phrynne wrote: "I love what predictive text did to your last few words Sally:)"

LOL - well I do read down town sometimes ;)

Have fixed it :)

I was more under the impression that literature was meant to be enjoyed for the beauty of the words, crafted to show how fluid, fragile, and expressive language can become with a practiced and skilled hand. Like Shakespeare, Wilde, O'Casey, or Yates. Not merely to tell a story, but thrill you as it does so, marvelling at the author's deft hand - it's like poetry in prose form, reading literature is to be dazzled with admiration of a fine art, bathing your soul in a new light.

Quite a lot of the second hand penguin books end up there, and I spend hours in the charity shop reading whole chapters out of books from the Literature section to decide which ones to buy.

PS, for instance I read The Train by Georges Simenon, and it was translated from the French but this description was so expressive and moving, they're being attacked from the air and he describes it as 'a rosary of bombs'. Is that not so heartbreakingly beautiful?

To be moved to tears, to pure joy, to an intense understanding of being....ah, that is literature.

And there's nothing wrong with books that aren't literature, and I wouldn't look down on anyone who reads them, that would just be silly. We're all different and we enjoy different things. In fact, I read plenty of those as well. It's like watching a sketch show on the telly, but sometimes going to the ballet.

Those sketch shows are awfully funny. Those are also the ones you end up talking with your friends about a long time afterward.