SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Is anyone else watching Altered Carbon on Netflix? So far, I am loving it. I feel that it has captured the spirit of the book.

However, some details have blurred with time, so I am preparing to do a re-read. It is probably better this way so I don't get caught up in the differences.

I haven't started yet but it's on my list for next time I can be in front of a tv for a couple hours! It looks pretty. I'm hearing lukewarm things about it though.

I watched the first episode last night. Found it a bit strange but liked it enough to continue it. I did not read the book so wasnt sure what to expect.

I'm really liking it, about half way through.

I am a few episodes in. It is a bit trippy and heavy with the world building, but I think that is part of why I like it.

My SO, who has not read the book, does not seem to quite and into it but he is willing to suffer through for my sake (and perhaps for the more risque' bits). He says there is a bit too much going on. I think he would say the same about the book, knowing his tastes.

4 star book IMO, haven't started the series yet. Caught a story awhile ago that the guy that did the famous battle eps in Game of Thrones chose to direct AC, so another reason to be hyped. But...the snooty NYT rvw said it was filler material, and the trailers I saw were kinda disappointing.

My take - worried that AC is a tight, streamlined, high concept, good mystery - great for a book. But I dunno if that's gonna translate to a TV series (what does S3 look like?). The opposite for me of Annihilation: 2 star book IMO, but so slow paced, mood based, open ended, and hyper-surreal, lends itself to be a really, really good movie.

We'll see about both.

The show is way better than the book. The woman who adapted it did a spectacular job with her improvements.

It’s been a long time since I read it, but I think she borrowed some things from later books, as well.

I read the book last month and am now 3 episodes in. I think they have done a good job in the tv show. I was a little disappointed that the AI hotel was not The Harvey. I pictured this lovely art deco place. Its still nice with Poe and all.

I haven't read any other books of the series though.

I binged over the weekend and watched the whole series :)

I think it's been done rather well (although I am biased b/c I loved/read the book when it was first released in 2002); I've been pleasantly surprised at how well the graphics have been done; and also the approach to the background memories. Really good stuff :)

Hopefully the 2 later books 'Broken Angels' & 'Woken Furies' will also be adapted for screen (although IMHO these were not quite as good as AC).

Oh interesting IMHO the latter books are definitely better than the first book so season 2 and 3 could be epic.

I am only up to episode 4 in the Netflix series and maybe I should reread the books because I basically only remember the “feel” of the book and almost none of the plot points, although I remember the hotel was cool and that Kovacs is violent AF (and only gets more so in the later books). My husband was put off by all the graphics torture scenes but I think he endures it for all the vast amount of Joel Kinnaman’s body we get to see every episode!

Slate had a review saying the last 5 episodes are significantly better than the first 5 so I have that to look forward to. People also say the plot of the Netflix adaptation veers significantly from the book (which I think is a good thing).

Morgan is one of my fave SFF authors. After this settles his follow up output is an epic fantasy with an openly gay hero which may or may not be actually set in the Altered Carbon universe.

MadProfessah wrote: "Oh interesting IMHO the latter books are definitely better than the first book so season 2 and 3 could be epic.

I am only up to episode 4 in the Netflix series and maybe I should reread the books..."

I read the first book of that series, The Steel Remains. I never went back for more. The violence was hard. Maybe more violent than Altered Carbon. But I can say it was a good story and the characters were very compelling.

I am glad the 4th Episode of AC was changed a bit. (view spoiler)[ the torture scene in the novel was just fucking brutal (hide spoiler)] In some ways in the book it was much more effective because (view spoiler)[ he was in the actual body that was being tortured (hide spoiler)] But I was glad for the change. It was much easier to watch.

MadProfessah wrote: "After this settles his follow up output is an epic fantasy with an openly gay hero which may or may not be actually set in the Altered Carbon universe. "

I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised by the outcome of Lizzie’s story. Read this after finishing the series: (view spoiler)[Having her mother resleeved into the body of a man is very much a “have your cake and eat it too” moment, as the Elliots are reunited, but it has overtones of gay marriage at the same time once Vernon accepts it’s her. Also no doubt fun for the actor because he gets to act like the mom. Win-win! (hide spoiler)]

I saw it all and rate it meh+.

I actually liked the world building and slower parts the best. Later in the show the story gets more involved and interesting but it also starts to lean very heavily on cliché martial arts scenes that could have been stripped from any movie going back to the Matrix or before. People jumping over 14' tall fences, clearing them by at least 8', twirling around and then landing on their feet perfectly and singlehandedly slaughtering 28 machine pistol armed bad guys using a katana ... yeah, suspension of disbelief evaporated.

The production is kind of a hodgepodge of rip-offs (if I'm being cruel) or "homages" (if I'm being kind) to a whole host of other films ... Blade Runner obviously, the Matrix, etc.

But it was better than the average SF fair on TV and at least they're actually making a bit of new content now along with the endless hundreds of superhero based schlock.

IMO The Expanse TV show was superior to this but I'd still watch another season if/when it comes out.

P.S. I've not read the book. I can't justify spending $11.99 on an eBook when the paperback is selling for only $0.03 more than that. Ridiculous.

Micah wrote: "I saw it all and rate it meh+.

I actually liked the world building and slower parts the best. Later in the show the story gets more involved and interesting but it also starts to lean very heavily..."

Honestly?? I'd suggest reading the book. :) Yes, some parts are fairly cliched (as you point out) but the book goes into a little more detail. :)

Can't you find a second-hand book which may be cheaper??

Just saw the first ep! I liked it a lot. Most of it looked just like how I pictured! Or at least close enough that I'm enjoying the world. I really like how they do the flashbacks and the new knowledge about Takashi's former life(ves). And I love love love the mix of languages. It was maybe a little info-dumpy but in a forgivable way for me.

Carole-Ann wrote: "Can't you find a second-hand book which may be cheaper??..."

Maybe. But I don't read physical books much anymore. eBooks are just too convenient, and I've not had any trouble so far finding good ones that aren't that expensive. I mean I'm sure I could do something weird and go to a library as well ... 21st Cent problems, you know?

Micah, my local library has an incredible ebook (and Audiobook, if that is your thing) selection. I encourage you to check it out. It helps my reading budget immensely.

Micah wrote: "Carole-Ann wrote: "Can't you find a second-hand book which may be cheaper??..."

Maybe. But I don't read physical books much anymore. eBooks are just too convenient, and I've not had any trouble so..."

LOL - a library is possibly the BEST place EVER to get a book :)

Micah wrote: "I saw it all and rate it meh+.

People jumping over 14' tall fences, clearing them by at least 8', twirling around and then landing on their feet perfectly and singlehandedly slaughtering 28 machine pistol armed bad guys using a katana ... yeah, suspension of disbelief evaporated...."

ROFL! Oh, okay, that's when disbelief evaporated. Okay.

I finished the Netflix series and agree the woman Laeta Kalogridis(?) did an amazing job of adapting an ultra violent series for the screen. There are Major changes from the original source material but IMHO all the changed basically make the story more emotionally resonant for the viewer.

I was pleased how Lizzie’s story ends.

I’d also note that each book in the series is almost in a different genre (book 2 BROKEN ANGELS has elements of “Alien” and follows mercenaries in the context of a planetary civil war). BOOK 3 WOKEN FURIES is more of a quest/impossible mission/band of warriors tale. The only common character between books (that I recall) is Takeshi Kovacs himself who has a different sleeve in each book.

I finished this as well. I think they did a good job. My only issue how they handled Quell/the lover/the warrior and put them all into one woman.

Joseph wrote: "Micah wrote: "I saw it all and rate it meh+.

People jumping over 14' tall fences, clearing them by at least 8', twirling around and then landing on their feet perfectly and singlehandedly slaughte..."

Fan Characters are so much fun. Is Milla Jovovich in the show?

I also think the show is better than the book. I couldn’t quite handle to torture scenes in the book. I stopped reading.

I started watching it last night when I got home to the farm (and my internet and Netflix). Only a couple of episodes in but I’m enjoying it. Was tossing up whether to watch it or read it first and I’m watching it.

The Netflix series was on par with the novel. That is: not great.

Heike wrote: "I also think the show is better than the book. I couldn’t quite handle to torture scenes in the book. I stopped reading."

Those were hard. Very hard. I considered stopping as well. but glad I finished the story.

I'm 3 in and still enjoying it. Obviously I'm not ravenously consuming it, either, but it's the TV I've watched most recently. I like the acting and the pacing so far has been good. Hoping for a little more depth soon.

I'm liking it well enough. The world building is interesting, but I also feel like it's mostly used for decoration instead of really being explored. I'd like to know more about the New Catholics, for instance, and what other religions believe about the soul and how it's impacted by the stacks.

Anyway - to me it seems like a sort of semi-basic noir mystery in a cool sci-fi backdrop, but I'm not blown away by it or anything. Doesn't help that I'm not really invested in any of the characters as yet.

But I'm not done, and things might change. And my husband seems to be enjoying it more than me, though he thinks the characters are all unlikable.

I do really like The Raven, though, and Poe is the only character we both like.

I was listening to the podcast Breaking the Glass Slipper, which is all about pro-women genre writing, and they slammed the Altered Carbon TV series as being too gratuitous. It really sounds like they didn’t read the book, which is way worse in that regard, and aren’t aware that the show was adapted and produced by a woman.

One of the changes she made that I think we’re pretty much all agreed is the best thing about the show is The Raven.

I had forgotten this, but in the book the hotel is based on Jimi Hendrix’s music, with each room reflecting one of the songs. However, the Hendrix estate has very strict rules about his music being associated with violence, so... that kinda disqualifies this entire exercise.

She decided to go back to the source of the modern mystery story, Edgar Allan Poe. By doing that and expanding the hotel’s role, she really added some cool stuff to the show, I think.

Trike wrote: "I was listening to the podcast Breaking the Glass Slipper, which is all about pro-women genre writing, and they slammed the Altered Carbon TV series as being too gratuitous. It really sounds like t..."

That sounds like a cool podcast! Again, only three eps in, and while I don't think that having a woman on the creative team necessarily absolves a show of all claims of sexism/gratuity, I have to say so far I've been fairly pleased that the nudity seems pretty balanced and isn't say, an orgy while two characters are talking about something completely different (lookin' at you GoT). So far, my concerns are more about (view spoiler)[ how tropey the detective is. The fiery Latina who doesn't play by the rules is a liiittle on the bigoted side, even given source material. (hide spoiler)]. Hoping that takes a slight turn.

I so often feel like I am on the other side of the dialog

I don't really see either the book or the story as anti-woman. My perception is that it is calling attention to exploitation of women and the have-nots by the haves.

Is there a lot of nudity and voilence? Yep. Sure is. Does it bother me? Not in the book and not the in television series. I think it is keeping with narrative and the world building.

Valerie wrote: "I so often feel like I am on the other side of the dialog

I don't really see either the book or the story as anti-woman. My perception is that it is calling attention to exploitation of women and ..."

Agreed, Valerie! I am firmly in the "nudity isn't sexist, nudity used to objectify is" camp. (view spoiler)[Even the sex workers so far, they are complex, their degradation is on class lines rather than strictly gender lines. (hide spoiler)]

Also I loove that people are speaking pidgin English/Spanish/Arabic/Japanese. Not sure I find this terribly realistic, but it makes me happy.

Season 2 coming Feb 27: https://youtu.be/BpbtLSJEHJQ

Awesome!!!

So I burned through the second season. It wasn't quite as brutal as the first one and they toned down the nudity, but the story was awesome. I like the series so much I have gotten the book.

Netflix also has an animated movie that is chronologically before the first series. It was very pretty in the details they put in for the artwork and the story was pretty good. Although not up to the series.

The Anime show is called Reseleved