The Idiot by Dostoevsky discussion

For discussion of Book II, chapters 9-10

In chapter 9, we experience Ganya as competent - an effective investigator and speaker. It's my impression that we are to agree with Ganya and Myshkin that Burdovsky himself honestly believed he was P's son -- but the Evanchin's clearly think that the Burdovsky and gang are all crooks.

Although I like Lizabeta (she has truly sympathy - toward Myshkin, toward Ippolit), maybe in part because she was so well-played in the film, her sudden changes of mood are unsettling. In fact, Dostoevsky is portraying very unstable female characters - Nastassya, Aglaya, Lizabeta - all with sudden mood changes, and loud-mouthed mocking, insulting behavior.

Lizabeta and Aglaya seem really attached to Myshkin being who they want him to be -- asserting himself loudly and forcefully, and certainly not being sympathetic to those in need who aren't honest or don't, in their opinion, deserve his generosity. Lizabeta here seems to take Myshkin's behavior personally and rails against him.

Myshkin had thought that lawyer Chebarov was guilty of fraud, convincing Burdovsky of his rights in order to get money from legal fees, but Ganya clarifies that this isn't true. Pavlevschev was so partial to young Burdovsky, whom he helped support, that many people - including Burdovsky - believed that B was P's son.

Doesn't Myshkin seem overly apologetic here -- for assuming that fraud was involved? And Lizabeta seems to be even more furious at Myshkin than the others who were behind the infamous letter that so maligned Myshkin. Clearly, she views the Burdovsky gang as dishonest rabble but she's more angry at Myshkin for putting up with them (and being willing to help Burdovsky) than she is at them for trying to milk him for money.

I think Nancy asked awhile back why Myshkin puts up with these untrustworthy people. And I find myself asking the same question.

Clearly, he didn't know anyone when he returned to Russia, and made connection with his distant relative, Lizabeta and family. So he was drawn into their world. But Rogozhin and Lebedev he met on the train and he didn't have to welcome them into his life. Given his ability to talk easily to strangers, he could have made healthier connections during both his returns to Russia.

My understanding is that he doesn't have a strong self-protective function in regard to who he lets in his life, and that he's motivated more by simple go-with-the-flow acceptance and being drawn somewhat magnetically to sympathizing with suffering and unstable people. This may be his biggest flaw - not that he's too good, but that he's good to people who are incapable of fully appreciating him and treating him well and responding in kind.

Maybe he's used to being treated like a leper or "sickie" himself and doesn't have much experience around healthy people (assuming there are more healthy, stable people around - General Evanchin may be the most sane).

I remember how when I was in my 20s, as a result of coming from an abusive family, I was drawn to people for certain qualities in and of themselves like their intellect or physical appearance without concern for how they treated me. I didn't value myself enough. As I grew to value myself, I learned to choose to form relationships with people who were truly good for me emotionally, even if they weren't particularly physically attractive or intelligent. To do otherwise, can be an invitation to be stepped on, used, mistreated....which can further threaten one's self-esteem and well-being.

Myshkin hasn't learned this lesson and is likely to suffer more as a result.

On chapter 10 --
Lizabeta is sympathetic to Ippolit's plight and I wonder if Dostoevsky means for us to feel sympathetic toward Ippolit, but I certainly don't. His denunciation of Myshkin seems completely unfair, especially because Myshkin has been generous despite being mistreated.

Why do you think Ippolit hates Myshkin - and in fact says he hated him before he even met him? Is it Myshkin seems privileged to him, whereas he is dying? Clearly, he's projecting al of negative qualities onto Myshkin.

But he also feels ashamed - because he too was duped into believing Burdovsky was P's son, and he's proud and identified with his intelligence, which he feels was just demeaned? But Myshkin didn't do anything at all to put him down. I have difficulty understanding Ippolit's misguided hatred here, apart from him simply needing a target for his anger at the world.

In this chapter too, Lizabeta expresses her own anger at Myshkin: "Aren't you ashamed to deal with such worthless people? I'll never forgive you." She sure takes his behavior personally. She and Aglaya have quite weak boundaries and can't tolerate Myshkin not conforming to their desires and expectations.

At the end of this chapter, Nastassia appears in her carriage and creates a scene to embarrass Evgeny. We can only speculate why. Does she not want Evgeny to be courting Aglaya because she's interested in him herself? Because she resents Aglaya for some reason such as Aglaya's interest in Myshkin? We will learn her reasons later.