Christian Theological/Philosophical Book Club discussion
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Does God Expect Us To Recognize Heretics?
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Timothy wrote: "You scare me sometimes, Robert!"God said quote: "A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject " (Titus 3:10)
I guess I am rejecting your admonitions by not responding to all of them. Some on the internet might call my behavior lurking (?)
Timothy wrote: "I guess I am rejecting your admonitions by not responding to all of them. Some on the internet might call my behavior lurking (?)"My response: I have no idea... I just quote and believe God...
God said quote: "A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject " (Titus 3:10)
Timothy wrote: "I love it."My response: Love what? Heresy ? Or the fact that God expects us to recognize heresy and deal with it?
I believe heretics should be identified when they are in contradiction to fundamental doctrine such as the following:That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Romans 10:9-10)
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (John 11:25-26)
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. (I John 3:23-24)
If Paul or John were alive today, they would be banned from most churches because they hold to the truth in the word of God.
Known heretics today would be those that preach or teach contrary to the truth that is in Jesus Christ. Such men are: Rick Warren as he teaches that a Christian can worship alongside a person of any faith. He has also taught that if the world follows his proposed peace plan then the events in the Book of Revelation will not occur. Such teaching is against Daniel Chapter 2.
Rick is preaching another Jesus, not the Jesus of the New Testament.
Then there is Joel Osteen that teaches that God wants us to have bigger houses, more expensive houses, and faster cars and more expensive cars.
How does Joel Osteen explain away the suffering and the persecution of the church today and throughout the centuries.
He also preaches another Jesus.
Those that teach truth are often labeled as the heretics from the leaders of the churches of Laodicea, Sardis and Thyatira.
Timothy wrote: "You guys are a rip!"Rip? Is that what you did with your Bible?
Did I give my Bible to you guys? No, I need it for myself. Sola scriptura, I always say!I am intrigued by your trifold publications, though, Dallman. For some reason, the PDF didn't accompany today's topic
Robert, I have two questions. Is there a difference between a false teacher and a heretic? The Bible mentions false prophets and false teachers and the difference between these two is plainly visible. To me the difference between a false teacher and heretic is not clear. My second question, can a person have all three traits: false prophet, false teacher and heretic? Please let me know your thoughts.
Robert said: My second question, can a person have all three traits: false prophet, false teacher and heretic? Please let me know your thoughts.Robert, this reminded me of something I had written in my Bible years ago (Romans 12:9). I looked up dissimulation and it meant hypocrisy = pretense of religion. I went through to find to whom this might apply in the Bible and came up with: King Herod to the wise men - "Bring the baby back so I might worship Him." Also: Ananias, the Pharisees, Delilah, Judas = showy empty display of religion.
Are false prophets, false teachers and heretics the same? I think it could be in some cases according to their position or status in society as the case with the (Pharisees). Otherwise it could pertain to anyone.
Robert wrote: "Robert, I have two questions. Is there a difference between a false teacher and a heretic? The Bible mentions false prophets and false teachers and the difference between these two is plainly visib..."My response: Here are some thoughts...
Heretic
* This word is only used once in the Bible (Titus 3:10)
* It is defined as - a schismatic… someone who causes division
False Teacher
* This word is also only used once in the Bible (2 Peter 2:1)
* It is defined as - a spurious teacher, i.e. propagator of erroneous Christian doctrine… someone who teaches unsound doctrine
False Prophet
* This word is used 11 times in the Bible (including 2 Peter 2:1)
* It is defined as - a spurious prophet, i.e. pretended foreteller or religious impostor… someone who pretends to be a prophet
False Apostle
* This word is also only used once in the Bible (2 Corinthians 11:13)
* It is defined as - spurious apostle, i.e. pretended preacher:—false teacher. … someone who pretends to be a prophet
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In view of the similar definitions, I do believe that these traits could be shared by the same individual.
I like the scripture reference of II Peter 2:1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
False teachers and prophets that privily bring in damnable heresies. Heresies and heretics appear similar in this context.
Robert wrote: ""A man that is an hereticafter the first and second admonition reject" (Titus 3:10)
Q: How do we identify "heretics" today?
A: A person who claims to love God but distorts the teachings. People who reject Jesus as Lord.
Q: Do we identify "heretics" today?
A: God identifies heretics to those who need to know. Do we pass that information on? Ask God.
A Christian allows for redemption and forgiveness, always.
(Titus 3:9) But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Q: What should be done with identified " heretics "?
A: Love and truth. Never overbearing. Never forced. Always true.
(Titus 3:9)
Q: What are some of the "popular" heresies today?
A: "Spirituality" is a relationship with God.
"A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject " (Titus 3:10)
"Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils; for of what account is he?" (Isaiah 2:22)We all struggle with receiving approval from others.
John writes that we need to test the doctrines of men because many have departed from the truth. Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (I John 4:1)
Yes, we are to recognize heresy and call it what it is, but I think formal heresies should still be distinguished from material heresies.
Debbie, that is a interesting statement. I believe what you are saying is that there are formal heresies that deny truth and material heresies that emphasize material prosperity over the spirit filled life in Christ. Is that what you meant?
Robert wrote: "Debbie, that is a interesting statement. I believe what you are saying is that there are formal heresies that deny truth and material heresies that emphasize material prosperity over the spirit fil..."No, not at all. A "material" heresy is one held in ignorance where as a "formal" heresy is when a person willingly holds error and rejects truth.
The reason I think it is still important to distinguish between the two is because a person who holds to a heresy in ignorance can perhaps be taught truth.
Debbie, I agree with your latest explanation. I think of Saul. One that persecuted the church and desired to obliterate it. Who back in the first century would ever think that God could save Saul? No one is too far gone that we should not pray for them. Saul learned the truth as you declared. I like your explanation.God Bless you.
Those who love truth and hold to error in ignorance... will be corrected when confronted with the truth.Those who love their errors will never part from them.
How do we identify " heretics " today?
Do we identify " heretics " today?
What should be done with identified " heretics "?
What are some of the "popular" heresies today?
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