SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Roll call for Infomocracy Buddy Read starting September 1st!

Amanda wrote: "I got it from the library and plan to participate."

Awesome! Glad you could join.

Love to join in -- will check availability at the library!!

Kirsten wrote: "Love to join in -- will check availability at the library!!"

Yes please do! I didn’t have this timed poorly when I picked a date- but both my votes for the group reads won so I’m going to have a few books going at the same time. No rush here.

Huh... turns out I own this. My TBR might be out of hand.

Trike wrote: "Huh... turns out I own this. My TBR might be out of hand."

I think that is most definitely a sign you should join us!

My library has it available, so I'm in!

I am interested! A little swamped, might be a bit behind though.

I'm still working on a couple other reads- but wanted to get this started anyway. I read through the first chapter (about 5% in). I'm really enjoying the world building and imagery.

(view spoiler)[It seems like Information is sort of a virtual connection to the internet (for lack of a better word or maybe world data I guess?). I loved the scene where Mishima was running through the lobby pulling up blue prints and looking for emergency exits. It felt like a video game scene which was kinda cool. (hide spoiler)]

I'm in the same boat with balancing a lot of books, but I've been looking forward to reading this for a while. I just finished the second chapter, which gets even deeper into the world-building.

(view spoiler)[Now Information appears to be also an organization. I am really interested to see what the book has to say about things like truth and transparency. (hide spoiler)]

Kaa wrote: "I'm in the same boat with balancing a lot of books, but I've been looking forward to reading this for a while. I just finished the second chapter, which gets even deeper into the world-building.

..."

Yes! I’m finding this really interesting. Chapter 2 also talks about:

(view spoiler)[Sony-Mitsubishi and Coca-cola as being corporate governments. I’m curious how this plays in. It also sounds like all government is world wide. (hide spoiler)]

Agreed, so far the more I learn about the politics in this world the more questions I have!

Chapter 4:

This is hard to put down.

(view spoiler)[ “Further support was provided by the subsequent lawsuit, building on that precedent, which led directly to the cable news collapse.”

So it sounds like maybe Information replaced internet and TV. (hide spoiler)]

The vibe I got is that Information is a placeholder for a super-Google.

It is a search engine, collects data on users and is not government owned. Just like Google. The difference is that it is also a voting system.

Amanda wrote: "I just finished chapter 5. It's a really interesting book so far.

[spoilers removed]"

I totally missed this- but now that you've pointed it out I'm noticing it more and more RE:(view spoiler)[the cyborgs. The present tense thing I hadn't noticed either, but it isn't one of my pet peeves, so you have my sympathy! (hide spoiler)]

27% (Just finished chapter 8): (view spoiler)[Interesting that the men have birth control in this future. I've wondered why this isn't more prevalent in sci-fi. Admittedly, I've only really started reading sci-fi this year, so it's also entirely possible I just haven't seen this topic yet. Forgive my ignorance.

Also- I can't decide whether the idea of a micro-democracy would be a blessing or a curse. On the one hand- everyone gets to live in a under a government they like (or at least chose as the best of the options). On the other hand, cramming a bunch of like minded people into one space might get boring after awhile. Curious to see what the group thinks. (hide spoiler)]

I just finished chapter 8 as well.

One thing that caught my attention back in chapter 6 (view spoiler)[was the name recognition problem, and how it "could be used as an argument against the whole system." I'm not sure if this is what she's saying, but what immediately came to mind for me is the finding that directly contradicting something people believe with facts actually only makes them believe it more strongly. To what extent would this still hold true with Information, especially given that it seems like plenty of people don't trust it? Because that could seriously undermine the whole concept of Information. (hide spoiler)]

Kaa wrote: "I just finished chapter 8 as well.

One thing that caught my attention back in chapter 6 [spoilers removed]"

Hmm... I’ll have to go back and read that part. I don’t quite recall the context. But the other points I definitely agree with (view spoiler)[about people not trusting Information. Especially when it seems like it might be one of the governments themselves? Kinda like they control everything. The “man behind the curtain,” so to speak. (hide spoiler)]

Sarah wrote: "Hmm... I’ll have to go back and read that part. I don’t quite recall the context"

(view spoiler)[There was a study that Mishima was reading where people were more likely to say they would vote for famous serial killers than not-so-famous politicians. So not quite the same thing, but every time Information contradicts a false claim they are also drawing attention to it, so people may remember it more than they would otherwise. (hide spoiler)]

Kaa wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Hmm... I’ll have to go back and read that part. I don’t quite recall the context"

[spoilers removed]"

Ahh- thanks for the assist. That was interesting, and I think if I recall correctly from Psych 101 that’s actually true.

Chapter 9:

(view spoiler)[First of all, whoa. That was unexpected. And a bit uncomfortable, in a "this could also happen where I live any day now" kind of way. But I like it as a concrete and realistic catalyst for some major shake-ups in the story. (hide spoiler)]

Also, one thing that's been bothering me, stylistically, (view spoiler)[is when the POV jumps from one character to another within the same scene. I would be enjoying the main characters starting to interact more, but it means the perspective jumping is becoming more common too. (hide spoiler)]

Amanda wrote: "So, I just read through chapter 11. I'm slow at these things..."

Agreed! (view spoiler)[I’m wondering how you all picture the crow? I sort of think it is like a blimp but I’m sure that’s not right. (hide spoiler)]

Amanda wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

I’m also wondering about some of these other gadgets. (view spoiler)[Like the crowd cutter? How does that work exactly? (hide spoiler)]

65%
(view spoiler)[ I have to say I was fully expecting Domaine to be responsible for Information being down. Now that he seems to be ruled out by his POV chapter, I can’t think of who else it might be. (hide spoiler)]

I finished this a couple days ago and haven't had a chance to post anything until now. (view spoiler)[Wow, so much in the last few chapters that I wasn't expecting! I really didn't feel like I could ever predict where the story was going. There are just so many moving pieces here, and the story seems like it's only barely begun to explore some of the deeper stuff around Information. I am super excited to read the next book in the trilogy. (hide spoiler)]

Kaa wrote: "I finished this a couple days ago and haven't had a chance to post anything until now. [spoilers removed]"

I just finished myself! Let me know if you want to buddy read book 2. I’d definitely be up for that.

100%
(view spoiler)[I agree the ending did have a lot of twists and turns and I definitely couldn’t predict it. Felt like a lot of red herrings were dropped along the way. Domaine turned out to be largely irrelevant. Ken was legitimately a good guy. Mishima was a little paranoid.

I do think the ending felt a little rushed. So much was packed in to those last couple chapters I had trouble piecing it together.

Sounds like Heritage was illegally making their tunnel- that caused an earthquake. So they sent contractors to destroy the Information data stored in Tokyo.

Meanwhile Liberty planned their own thing to split the factors and start war? What was their motivation? And the election results- was that a completely new election? Or did the voting analysts just re-validate the other election votes Heritage messed with?

I felt it was really strong and interesting up until those last couple chapters. I’d be willing to give book two a try for sure. (hide spoiler)]

My copy is almost in at the library. Are there any content warnings for this book?

Ariana wrote: "My copy is almost in at the library. Are there any content warnings for this book?"

I think you are in the clear Ariana. (view spoiler)[There is one scene where a main character gets a black eye from some bullies but he walks away with no serious injuries, and earlier on there is a natural disaster of sorts that seems pretty devastating to the wider world, but no rape, no child abuse, no torture. If you need want further details let me know. (hide spoiler)]

Ariana I forgot one scene. I wouldn’t qualify this book as dark by any means, but I don’t want to assume our boundaries fall in the same places: (view spoiler)[There is one odd scene where Mishima stabs Ken in the leg... (they are lovers). She gives him a healing patch and he gets fixed up right away and laughs it off later. But spousal abuse is not a running theme in the book if that helps. (hide spoiler)]

Sarah wrote: "I think you are in the clear Ariana. [spoilers removed]"

Thank you!

@Sarah: I am waiting to get the next book from the library, but when it comes in I'd be happy to buddy read with you!

(view spoiler)[My understanding was that there was an entirely new election, and that part of what Liberty wanted was to undercut the entire system. I didn't mind the accelerated pace at the end, but I do hope the other two books explain more of what was going on. (hide spoiler)]

Kaa wrote: "@Sarah: I am waiting to get the next book from the library, but when it comes in I'd be happy to buddy read with you!

[spoilers removed]"

Awesome! Do you know about how long the wait will be for book two? I think my library has them available right away, but I have a few things to cram in before then.

Also- thanks for clarifying the ending there. It was late and I feel like I still have a ton of reading to do before October so it might have been in there clear as day and I missed it.

Amanda wrote: "If y'all wait, I'll read the second with you."

Awesome! Let me know what dates you all are thinking, I'll go add it to the master buddy read thread in case anyone wants to join us.

I am hold 2 on 2 books, so hopefully not too long.

(view spoiler)[Yeah, I don't think a lot of stuff was all that clear. Also, I sort of connected Liberty to the Libertarian party/movement, so I may be making some assumptions about their goals that are not actually in the text. (hide spoiler)]

Amanda wrote: "I just requested it. There are no other holds on it, and there are multiple available copies, so I should get it in a week or so. Then as long as we start it sometime in the next two months, I shou..."

No worries Amanda- take your time. I have a bunch of stuff scheduled for mid-October. These seem pretty quick so I'm thinking early October and we can all join as we are able... does that work?

Early October should work for me!

Amanda wrote: "How about October 2nd-ish?

I got through chapter 23 today..."

Great points. (view spoiler)[Especially about Mishima. I hadn’t quite figured out what I liked her but I think you’re right- it’s nice that she’s the action person and Ken was the guy at the desk.

I was also curious about the plastic guns. Are they supposed to be non-lethal? I was picturing them like rubber bullets. (hide spoiler)]

Yeah, thanks for putting that into words, (view spoiler)[in terms of some of my feelings about Mishima.

I was picturing the same kind of plastic guns we have now, where typically the ammo and the firing pin are still metal, but it's unclear how the technology that interferes with guns works so I'm not sure whether that amount of metal would still be affected by the device. (hide spoiler)]

Kaa wrote: "Yeah, thanks for putting that into words, in terms of some of my feelings about Mishima. "

Oh interesting- I didn’t know those existed! I’m going to have to look it up.

I read this a couple years back and really enjoyed it. I liked the world that Older created and learning how it came to be that way.

(view spoiler)[I am a big reader of mysteries and I largely read this as a mystery, with Mishima as the sleuth, piecing things together. (hide spoiler)]

I'd be up for a buddy read of Null States.

Meredith wrote: "I read this a couple years back and really enjoyed it. I liked the world that Older created and learning how it came to be that way.

[spoilers removed]

I'd be up for a buddy read of Null States."

Thanks for the reminder! I meant to go post that in the buddy read thread in case anyone else wanted to join.

Also I agree- (view spoiler)[It felt like a mystery, and the clues were fun to follow even if I couldn’t have ever guessed that outcome... lol (hide spoiler)]

I finally started this yesterday! Better late than never, I guess. Null States was also in at the library, so I grabbed that too. If I can finish this one quickly I might just keep going and join in with the next one as well.

Always a pleasure to buddy read with you Ariana! Let me know if/when you decide to start Null States and I’ll put the thread up and try to join you. My October is looking crammed at this point so going a little early wouldn’t be bad. I just don’t want anyone to feel rushed since some of us are waiting on holds and such.

Great to hear that you're continuing the series, maybe I'll be ready to start it by the time you're reading the finale! I think it's best to keep the whole series in this thread. It's up to you if you want to list all books in the title, or name it Centenal Cycle and only list the book you're currently reading. I'll add Null States to the BR list anyway, it'll just point to this same thread.

That works- Thanks Anna!

Sarah wrote: "Always a pleasure to buddy read with you Ariana! Let me know if/when you decide to start Null States and I’ll put the thread up and try to join you. My October is looking crammed at this point so g..."

Likewise, Sarah! I've been feeling bummed I missed out on reading it with you all, but it finally came in at the library.

Ariana wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Always a pleasure to buddy read with you Ariana! Let me know if/when you decide to start Null States and I’ll put the thread up and try to join you. My October is looking crammed at t..."

It's still September! Please post your thoughts anyway as you go- we can definitely still discuss.

Amanda wrote: "Okay, just finished it.

I wasn't expecting ..."

(view spoiler)[I actually liked the subtle romance too. I thought it was really sweet and never became the focus. Though I do have to question Ken’s sanity when he’s so head over heels for a woman he’d let her stab him and still date her. LOL. (hide spoiler)]

I've not had a ton of time to read recently, but enjoying this. Through Ch. 7 of Infomocracy, starting to get a feel for the world and the election system being described after several chapters of being very confused... I seem to have a hard time with books following a bunch of different characters, at least at the beginning (and maybe especially on audio?). It's hard for me to keep them all straight, which one works for Information? Who's that one working for? Where is this character? etc. But I'm expecting this will get easier as I go along.
(view spoiler)[I have to say that the references to poorly educated voters voting against their own interests is a little too close to home... Generally I want my reading to take my mind off of the current political climate :-/ (hide spoiler)]. But it's pretty fun so far.

Sarah wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

Bahaha, yes. (view spoiler)[I love a good stabby fictional character - Mishima included - but that doesn't sound like the best foundation for a healthy relationship. (hide spoiler)]

Ariana wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

You may have to brace for more of the "too close to home" - a lot of the book felt like commentary on the current political situation, even though it was published back in summer 2016.

Ariana wrote: "I've not had a ton of time to read recently, but enjoying this. Through Ch. 7 of Infomocracy, starting to get a feel for the world and the election system being described after several chapters of ..."

Glad you are enjoying it. I do think the characters become easier to follow as the book goes on. Mostly because a lot of the background characters kind of fade to the background and it focuses more on Ken and Mishima. I remember being confused at first to.