Literally Leander discussion

Our book for October 2018 was Renegades by Marissa Meyer.

If you've managed to finish this book (it's pretty thick!) or if you haven't, please be aware that there are spoilers in this thread. Our discussion questions this month have been written by one of our staff members. Please don't think you have to answer them. This isn't an English class, after all! We're just offering them as prompts to get our discussion started. Otherwise, we'd love for you to pose any questions of your own, as well as any theories or observations you made while reading.

1. In the beginning of the book, when describing how the Renegades and the Anarchists came about, Meyer writes, “Maybe Ace really was a villain. Or maybe he was a visionary. Maybe there’s not much of a difference.” What do you think is meant by that? Would you agree?

2. Down in the tunnels, Nova sees a group of Renegades provoking a group of Anarchists, and wonders who the innocent ones truly are. What do you think of this dichotomy between heroes and villains? How different are they from one another? Is it possible to have one without the other?

3. If you were given a choice, would you choose to join the Renegades or the Anarchists? Or would you choose neither? Which one do you think embodies more of your personal values?

4. Adrian has a secondary hero identity as “the Sentinel.” What do you think he was trying to accomplish by making this alter ego, whose identity he kept secret from the Renegades and his own family?

5. “One cannot be brave who has no fear” is a quote that instills an obsession in Adrian to capture Nightmare. What does this quote mean to the characters? What does it mean to you?

6. Both Nova and Adrian have thought about what it means to be a “hero.” What kind of person would you say makes a hero?

7. Superhero books are becoming more and more prevalent in the young adult genre. Why do you think these types of books are so popular, especially right now?

We're looking forward to seeing your discussion!

This book is surprisingly long. It's actually my longest book of the year (at least so far.) I actually bought it some time ago, like when it first came out, and it's just been collecting dust all this time. Honestly, I probably wouldn't have bothered to read it for longer if it hadn't been chosen for this month, and not because I wasn't interested in it. I just really have no self-control when it comes to library books, and my personal books don't have due dates so...

Anyway, I liked Renegades for the most part. I wasn't quite sure what to expect going in. I distinctly remember someone (maybe Christine?) saying that its premise was similar to that of a previous book of ours, Steelheart. It is in some regards, but in most ways I would say that this book was completely different, but still enjoyable. I actually think I liked Steelheart better, though.

1. In the beginning of the book, when describing how the Renegades and the Anarchists came about, Meyer writes, “Maybe Ace really was a villain. Or maybe he was a visionary. Maybe there’s not much of a difference.” What do you think is meant by that? Would you agree?
This is a quote that I marked right away. It has a certain level of profoundness, wouldn't you agree?

Personally, I think the quote refers to what side you're on. I'm sure that we've all heard the saying that the victors are the ones that write history. Was Ace a visionary or a villain? It all depends on what side you're on. Words like those are applicable only to those that have an opinion of the person in question. Those that shared Ace's values likely considered him a "visionary," and were unwilling to see him any differently, despite the outcomes. Perhaps they thought any negative happenings were necessary evils in search of a larger goal. But to those that suffered directly, or those who disagreed philosophically, Ace was nothing more than a villain parading about and using his powers to crush those who opposed him.

In a way, they are the same. It just depends on what perspective you have, what lens you're looking through, as to the word you'd choose to describe him.

2. Down in the tunnels, Nova sees a group of Renegades provoking a group of Anarchists, and wonders who the innocent ones truly are. What do you think of this dichotomy between heroes and villains? How different are they from one another? Is it possible to have one without the other?
There is no darkness without light. No good without evil. And, on a specific note, no heroes without villains. Personally, I see them as different sides of the same coin. Both of them do what they must, and (if characterization is good) they both do so because they think they are doing what's right. The idea of defining heroes and villains harkens back to the first question; it's all a matter of perspective.

The Renegades came about in what they thought of as a dark time, perpetrated by Ace's tyranny. They sought order to counteract Ace's anarchy, and were able to instill a hierarchical program that seemed to speak of stability and safety. But what some don't realize is that, perhaps, the ultimate goals of the Renegades and the Anarchists are somewhat aligned. What Ace really wanted was for people with abilities to be accepted as they were. The same thing might be said for the Renegades, who wanted to create a world of equality for those with abilities and those without. They just used different methods in different time periods, but arguably they were working towards the same goal.

4. Adrian has a secondary hero identity as “the Sentinel.” What do you think he was trying to accomplish by making this alter ego, whose identity he kept secret from the Renegades and his own family?
Personally, I think that the Renegades strongly value order and rules, even when it forces them to keep their hands tied. It is the same as the current police policy, in some ways; even if they are certain of something, if they lack the proof, the evidence, they can't act upon it willy-nilly.

I think Adrian's secondary identity as "the Sentinel" came about because of this. He has been raised in the thought process of the Renegades, but a part of him understands the motives of the Anarchists. He might not be conscious of it, but he's using a new identity as a way to deal with his own frustrations. I believe Adrian might have said it himself at some point; "Sketch" is stuck following the rules of the Renegades down to every stroke, but "the Sentinel" isn't.

5. “One cannot be brave who has no fear” is a quote that instills an obsession in Adrian to capture Nightmare. What does this quote mean to the characters? What does it mean to you?
This was another quote I marked while reading, and one I even "officially" liked on my Goodreads. Looking at all of these questions as a whole, it's obvious to me that there's a heavy emphasis on opposite ends of the spectrum, which I kind of expected, since it's the main plot of the story, after all. How can you have one without the other?

There is no bravery to be had if there is no fear to be felt. Whether you call it bravery or courage, either way it exists in the face of fear, when you do something you think is right even if you're afraid to do it. It is a strength of the soul standing up to the darkest parts of that same soul.

It's been a while since I completed the book (and I'm only now getting around to posting here, shame on me) so forgive me if I'm wrong. I seem to remember Adrian saying that the note on his mother's body contained the same lines. Nightmare/Nova knows this line because it's something she grew up with. Particularly, I think Phobia said something of the sort towards the end of the book.

I'm assuming that this might be a tagline of Phobia's, or a philosophy that he lives through. His ability, his nature, is the least-known of the proffered characters, and I imagine that this line, and Phobia's character as a whole, will become more important as the series continues.

7. Superhero books are becoming more and more prevalent in the young adult genre. Why do you think these types of books are so popular, especially right now?
Like all things, books go through trends. I've been reading young adult books for approximately forever, so I've been around to see lots of these trends. A while back, there were vampires and werewolves, angels and faeries, dystopians and retellings, aliens and space adventures. In no particular order.

Now, the trend is superheroes. I think it's a part of the uptick of superhero movies as of late (hello, Marvel and DC. Thanks for taking over everything.) But superhero books aren't completely new either; we've been reading superhero stories for literally generations in some form or another. There's just a particular interest in them right now.

Honestly, I can't wait to see what everyone else has to say. Especially about that ending. Can you say cliffhanger?