The Robin Hobb Collection discussion

Discuss Chapter 31 - Epilogue and the book as a whole. Link your reviews, etc.

Loved it, blazed through it an a few hours, now going to read it again. More leisurely this time, and I think I'll enjoy it more now that I dont have to dread the Fool being absent from the entire book.

In the epilogue, where Fitz says that what is to come is the "darkest days of my life"...did that terrify anyone else? Because screw Stephen King, that one sentence might be the scariest thing I've ever read.

I had some issues with it, but they are mostly minor. I was going to be pissed if she kept the fool out of the book so long only to kill him off right when we finally see him again.

I was starting to worry the "fool" might be a feint and apply to Bee instead.

Really sad about Reval. I was starting to like him a lot.

And Perseverance maybe? I'm hoping since she covered him and he was only shot in the shoulder he'll be fine/back. I still think he got into a fight over her and considers Bee like a younger sister. She even observes this as they are trying to get away.

I'm REALLY unhappy about where the book ends. No idea when we'll get the next one, hopefully next year some time because leaving it where Bee's been taken is just awful.

I was so dreading that he might just die in that square. It would have been awful. He isnt safe still and I can't help remembering that Robin has said that the fans aren't going to like what she has to write this time around. If that means he has to die, I'd rather it be left til the very end of the last one. Even with Bee in there, she isn't enough to make up for the absence of the Fool and I probably wont finish reading this adventure if he cops it "/ Bee is nice and all but I'm just not attached to her like the older characters.

I'm thinking Perseverance will live so that Fitz can find him, and will learn from him what happened and who took Bee.

I agree, its evil leaving a cliffhanger when we have to wait so long for the next one. Not happy about it.

Yeah. I expect the fool to die in this series. But it better be late in the third book or the series name is misleading.

Either way, this series is going to ruin the surprisingly happy ending in Fool's fate.

Yeah, Bee has appeared to take over his role now, so I'm thinking he wont live through all of what's to come. My worst fear is that he's going to live just long enough to confirm that Bee is the unexpected son, and then the skill healing or something else is going to kill him off. I hope its not those bug things.

Yeah, you may be right.

I will be very disappointed if that happens. I can't say that I even like Bee. We're supposed to feel sympathy for her, but I found her to be kind of a selfish brat. (not on par with Shun, of course. Seriously, did any of you find any redeeming qualities in her?) Bee hides from Fitz, lies to him, spies on him, and them complains that he doesn't pay enough attention to her. I'm having a hard time looking forward to more of her POV in the next book. Am I alone in this?

Her POV grew on me. I didn't like her at the start, but did by the end. She is spoiled. Mostly because Fitz isn't the best parent. As to the rest, I think that's just her being a kid.

I liked Fitz a lot more as an adult in Tawny man than I did as a kid in Farseer. I think there is a bit of that here as well.

I don't agree she has no redeeming qualities though. She's been brave despite being put into situations no 9 year should have to. She saves the other kids despite them being assholes to her. It wouldn't surprise me if they purposely locked her out of the crawl spaces.

As far as the kids, when I was reading that scene, I assumed they had shut the door on her on purpose.

When I mentioned a character with no redeeming qualities, though, I was referring to Shun, not Bee. I would be perfectly happy is Shun's screams at the end of the book is the last we hear from her, although I don't think so. I'm interested to see if Robin Hobb tries to redeem her in the next book(s) and if it's even possible.

Doh. Reading comprehension fail. Sorry.

Have just finished the book, and on the whole I would have prefered to rip it in two and read the 2nd half. Jeeze, the first 12 chapters were awful. It read like chick lit. And the whole Pregnancy madness thing! WTF! Fitz is whitted, did he not think of maybe, laying his hand on his wife's belly and questing for a life force?? The 2nd half was much better, but so harrowing I was in floods of tears. I cannot believe what she did to the Fool. She put him through the mincer,and were left with a scarred, crippled, blind old man. The fool is one of the most beautiful characters i've ever read, so God that was incredibly harsh. I'm hoping that they stop off in Kelsingra on their quest, and the Fool can get a bit of regard from a dragon or silver to restore his youth and beauty.

Emma Jane wrote: "I was so dreading that he might just die in that square. It would have been awful. He isnt safe still and I can't help remembering that Robin has said that the fans aren't going to like what she ha..."

I actually had to put the book down and go have a shower at that point. I couldn't take that I had made it that far through a really bland first half of the book, to have The fool taken away. It was shocking what she had done to him. I though his 'kind' were supposed to live for hundreds of years, yet he's aged to an old man in his 20 years absence?

I think it's his torture that's aged him. Not the years. Plus Fitz brought him back from the dead, twice. That likely took a toll as well.

I think its more his scars, the filth, his blindness and the torture and privation he's had to go through that made him look so old. Perhaps he still looks young, beneath all that. If not there's a good chance a skill healing will restore him to what he should look like, as it did to Fitz in Tawny Man. I can't see Robin Hobb going as far as to fix him completely, though. Its already said that the Fool has limited reserves, so there's a fair chance he'll have to remain scarred.

Another problem could also be the Silver he had on his fingertips. I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain that in the Rain Wild Chronicles, Mercor says that exposure to raw Silver shortens the lifespan of Elderlings. He doesn't say how, I dont think, but may it be possible that the Silver on the Fool's fingertips has aged him prematurely? Especially as he doesn't have the security of being an Elderling when coping with the effects of the magic?

The poor Fool, though :( People seem to like to take their issues out on him, don't they?

Charlie wrote: "I will be very disappointed if that happens. I can't say that I even like Bee. We're supposed to feel sympathy for her, but I found her to be kind of a selfish brat. (not on par with Shun, of cours..."

I found I could excuse how she treated Fitz, considering she was exposed to all his thoughts about how disappointed he was that he didn't have a normal daughter. And she was aware of how often he lied to her too. They were only just beginning to trust each other, so I would have found it strange if she was suddenly a model child, especially considering that Fitz wasn't exactly a model parent.

I thought it quite sweet that she begins to become jealous of his time. I took it to mean that she was beginning to develop a bond with Fitz. Their day in the market I really enjoyed reading, just because you can see how their bond had deepened. They were actually enjoying each other's company, rather than being suspicious or hesitant with one another.

As for Shun, she's unbearable. So spoiled. Chade seems to care deeply about her though. I wonder if she's his?

Emma Jane wrote: "I think its more his scars, the filth, his blindness and the torture and privation he's had to go through that made him look so old. Perhaps he still looks young, beneath all that. If not there's a..."

I thought exposure to raw silver poisioned humans. Which is why Thymara had to use a dragonskin glove to work with it.
I never thought the Fools return would be in this guise.I did not expect the torture and mutilation. I do hope she lets him be healed, and doesn't drag my poor heart through the next two books with the fool, a slow poision in his blood killing him slowly. Fitz has driven me nuts in this book. What a great friend he turned out to be, waiting for a message for 20 years and not bothering to seek out the Fool, what an ass!

Little wrote: "Fitz has driven me nuts in this book."

Is that different from the other books? He ALWAYS drives me nuts. I cover that in my review a bit, but he really is his own worst enemy most of the time.

Speaking of my review, here's a link if you're interested: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I think it does, but the Fool isn't human and it was only a tiny amount. Fitz carried his fingerprints, and Malta has them on the back of her neck. And Fitz is always complaining that he feels like an old man, but that's probably just because he likes to find fault with himself and then sulk about it.

Your review is spot on, Rob, and seems to mirror my reaction to this installment almost exactly. What do you think it was about Bee that finally won you over? It seems lots of readers are a bit wary of her.

I forget exactly, I want to say it was chapter 26. I'll have to go back and reread it. I meant to comment on it here, but I was in the middle of my bike ride and forgot what I wanted to say.

I may have the chapter wrong. I think she became less annoying (whiny, selfish. Like most young kids probably) and more self assured.

Rob wrote: "Little wrote: "Fitz has driven me nuts in this book."

Is that different from the other books? He ALWAYS drives me nuts. I cover that in my review a bit, but he really is his own worst enemy most o..."

Cheers Rob, Here's mine https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Little wrote: "Have just finished the book, and on the whole I would have prefered to rip it in two and read the 2nd half. Jeeze, the first 12 chapters were awful. It read like chick lit. And the whole Pregnancy ..."

I don't think the Fool would approve of trying to regain his 'youth and beauty'. I think the Fool would say that it's what's inside that counts...

Wastrel wrote: "Little wrote: "Have just finished the book, and on the whole I would have prefered to rip it in two and read the 2nd half. Jeeze, the first 12 chapters were awful. It read like chick lit. And the w..."

Do you think so? I think he loved being Lord Golden, beautiful and surrounded by youth and beauty. He loved being the peacock, the center of attention, the entertainer.The external beauty of the fool was one of the facets he used to get what he wanted- attention, information, favours. I don't think he's that selfless that he wouldn't say no to getting his looks back. The blindness would be a first thing to get healed though! The servants haven't left him much inside. Through torture they have taken away every certianty and filled him with self doubt and fear. I don't know if the fool has been stripped back to the last threads of his dignity to be rebuilt,with a new personality facet- What has the torture done to his core self? How long do we have to wait for the next book?

It seems obvious that Shun is Chade's daughter. No? It is never stated, but so many clues.

I was interested in her character at the beginning, as I was looking for clues on who would be the Catalyst for Bee. It would be such a mirror of F&F with an unpredictable woman in Fitz's role. But then one sees that Shun is just a tool for Hobb to create distractions. She isn't allowed to learn anything from her situations. Disappointing. Not that all characters need to be changed for the better, but it felt too artificial.

Little wrote: "Wastrel wrote: "Little wrote: "Have just finished the book, and on the whole I would have prefered to rip it in two and read the 2nd half. Jeeze, the first 12 chapters were awful. It read like chic..."

I think there's a difference between the Fool enjoying what he has as Golden and fighting to regain what's been lost. He's not even in favour generally of skill-healing (he's changed his mind now because he wants to kill his enemies), let alone going back to being young and pretty.

Norseland: I thought Hobb did a good job showing the other side of Shun. Yes, her surface is arrogant and attention-seeking - but she's also a suicidal rape victim and a trained murderer. If she survives this, I think it's a fair bet that she's going to do more than sit around crying.
And yes, she certainly seems to be Chade's daughter.

FitzVigilant is interesting - a massive red herring, it seems. So much set up of Nettle, Riddle, etc, thinking he's someone special even though we can't see why - surely he's going to prove his worth somehow? Nope, dead (seemingly). And in an inversion of gender roles, looks like he was in introduced just so he could be killed off to provide a tragic dead love interest to motivate Shun...

So it's pretty clear, as far as I can see, that Bee is the "unexpected son." If the Fool could see he would have recognised Bee as a White by sight I think - maybe. As it is, he believes the encounter with Bee was a dream - so neither he nor Fitz connect Bee and the Fool.

Also all the prophecies predict a son - perhaps being born to the Catalyst who can change the future put a hitch in that foreseeing.

And I was reminded this part that Fitz inhabited the Fool's body as part of a healing in the past - so maybe a bit of the Fool go exchanged with Fitz and that conjoining translated into a white.

I'm so frustrated after reading this book. Fitz is so careless of Bee. I just knew this would happen when he was gone. What's wrong with Fitz? I've never seen him this way before, but when I think about I realise that he has acted like that before, with Hap for example.

I get so angry with the Fool and Fitz for not understanding that Bee is what they should protect. How did they become so stupid?

My review

Linnea wrote: "I'm so frustrated after reading this book. Fitz is so careless of Bee. I just knew this would happen when he was gone. What's wrong with Fitz? I've never seen him this way before, but when I think ..."

This is one of the things that grated with me, and this book. Thre is no character progression with Fitz, actually he's stupider than in previous books. He never learned anything from his past mistakes, and things he was good at- sensing danger-looking out for his loved ones, being a good dad (he was a pretty good dad to Hap) etc, have all been lost. He's constantly making poor judgments then beating himself up for it being the wrong decision. I found the 'breaking' of Beloved, incredibly harrowing. I would have loved some POV narration from the Fool, in the form of letters to fitz that he would never read. How did he get from Clerres to the six duchies, blind? I think it would have rounded out the plot and made it what the title suggested - a book about Fitz and the fool.

I still think this was a book about Fitz and the Fool - but rolled into the one character ie Bee.

Phew, finished it yesterday. First of all, what a ridiculous end to the book. How long will she let us wait now? (i hate hate cliff hanger type endings).


The fool must be properly blind, and i mean blind-blind. He didn't foresee future-option-paths (whatever we call them) or he should have known that the village was properly the worst outcome possible. Fitz stabbing him, and then having to leave his daughter behind. Previous fool would have seen some of this, so i guess he lost part of this white prophet magic too?

I'm with you Rob, Perseverance will live if anything to tell the story. Plus, the lad is called Perseverance and we know that names mean a lot in this world.

Hanne wrote: "Phew, finished it yesterday. First of all, what a ridiculous end to the book. How long will she let us wait now? (i hate hate cliff hanger type endings).


The fool must be properly blind, and i me..."

I think the Fool hasn't been able to see the futures since he was brought back from death in Fool's Fate.

LittleRed wrote: "Linnea wrote: "I'm so frustrated after reading this book. Fitz is so careless of Bee. I just knew this would happen when he was gone. What's wrong with Fitz? I've never seen him this way before, bu..."

Yes, it annoys me more and more! He has had some of these tendencies before with Hap. When Hap ran away with a girl in Buckkeep town Fitz was very slow in acting against it. So it's not that far fetched behaviour from Fitz part, since he is grieving as well. But with that said I didn't think he could be THAT careless.

Hanne wrote: "Phew, finished it yesterday. First of all, what a ridiculous end to the book. How long will she let us wait now? (i hate hate cliff hanger type endings).


The fool must be properly blind, and i me..."

I would love more of an insight about how the hell he travelled from Clerres throught to the six duchies, blind, mutilated and penniless. The fool was always able to use his initiative and insinuate himself into any company to further his goals. He must have been tortured to the point where he nothing left to not even be able to busk-with a song or a jest to earn a coin. When it comes down to it the Fool is a 'holy man' and Hobb has put him well and truely on the path of suffering,adoration and betrayal that all those who reveal their divinity go through. poor Beloved!...And Fitz..WTF? Who would automatically stab a beggar standing with their child? 'Step away from my child' would have been a reasonable reaction!

LittleRed wrote: "I would love more of an insight about how the hell he travelled from Clerres throught to the six duchies, blind, mutilated and penniless"

I hope/expect to get that story in the next book.

And while step away from my child would be the normal reaction of most people, this is Fitz we're talking about.

To be fair, there was plenty of foreshadowing about Fitz completely losing it, in terms of controlling his conduct when emotional. Aside from the general being-insane thing, there were at least two other attacks: first when Fitz reacts to Shun questioning his ability to protect his family by going for her throat in a heartbeat, and then when he attacks the dog-seller in the middle of the street - while both of these showed understandable motivations, they were both examples of Fitz being out of control when his triggers were pressed. I think that's why Shun and Lant reacted with horror that second time: not (just) because public violence and dog-killing isn't the done thing, but because he looked like a nutter when doing it.

It's a distressing shift from the over-relaxed, suave Fitz of the beginning of the book to the barely-contained homocidal paranoia of the end of it.

That said, while i think I can see how Hobb thought it would work, I don't think that it did - the stabbing still seemed completely out of the blue to me.

I finished the book in the early hours and I don't think I've ever felt so upset at the end of a book. At least with Fool's Fate both Fitz and Fool were fit and well at the end.

The scene at 90% when the Fool nearly died almost killed me, I wouldn't have continued if that'd happened I don't think. Poor little Bee, I've grown really attached to her, and to think the Servants could be doing to same to her as they did with the Fool makes me sick.

I just hope Fitz is able to skill heal the Fool and get rid of most of his ailments - please Hobb let that happen! The thought of him being tortured for what was it 20 years or so is just too much.

Perseverance would have been under that cloak and could have been awake listening to everything, might even have been able to follow them/remember vital information.

FitzVigilant was laying faced down, but do we actually know he's dead? It seems odd that Hobb would have introduced a character, mentioned all the good comments that Chade and Nettle gave of him, to just kill him off. Maybe he was faking it and again, he could finally do something useful and follow the Servants?

Yeah, I'm not 100% convinced anyone is dead yet. If FitzVigilant is dead, he's mostly a waste of a character.

As I say above, I think he's dead, and that all that stuff about how great he was was just a red herring. Plus, I think he's going to be the last part of a tragic origin story for Shun - romantic interests being murdered are always a good start for a hero's journey, right?

But I wouldn't be surprised if he is alive. I guess I've got better hopes for Per being alive, and it would seem wimpy for Hobb to kill off two characters and have them BOTH be alive.

My money is on Perseverance being alive, I'm hoping he manages to tag along with Fitz on the search for Bee!

One good side to Bee being kidnapped: at least now Fitz won't have to worry about bringing her to Buckkeep and having her be attracted to unreliable sailor types. He got into enough trouble over his adopted son, and that was when he was repressed - Eda knows what would happen if the new semi-sane Fitz found his daughter (and last reminder of his wife) in a hayloft...

[Hobb managed to avoid this very simply last time around by having Nettle immediately fall in love with the first pre-vetted responsible guy she met and then having no relationship troubles over the next twenty years. Seemed like a bit of a cheat, to be honest.]

Haha, that's very true. I do love Riddle though, he is a bit of a catch.

It really annoyed me in Fool's Fate. I felt she was so desparate to make everything a perfectly happy ending that she though Nettle had to be paired off with someone. But there wasn't anyone. Ergo: "this independent-minded woman with no romantic tendencies mentioned so far clearly has to be partnered off with someone in order for this to be a happy ending, therefore she must be instantly partnered off with this random guy we've not seen that much of because he's the only surviving male character we've met who isn't ancient or her brother in some way". Grrr.... far too neat in every way.

Riddle is at least more impressive this time around, but then that's just because he's an omnicompetant cipher - of course we can't resent Riddle being with Nettle, because Riddle has no flaws of any kind (his personality is just the absence of any flaws of any kind).

Hopefully the next two books will show us some more of Riddle and Nettle, and ideally Dutiful as well.

[And Hap! I know he was mentioned occasionally, but Fitz does seem to have forgotten his son somewhat... I know that's realistic when a foster-parent finally has 'their own' child, but even so it's a bit cold. Note how in Tawny Man Hap was usually just his son, his boy, but now he's constantly the boy Fitz adopted...]

Wastrel wrote: "One good side to Bee being kidnapped: at least now Fitz won't have to worry about bringing her to Buckkeep and having her be attracted to unreliable sailor types. He got into enough trouble over hi..."

This is 'one' of the things that annoyed me about the writing in this book. The character progression was lacking. What did we really find out about Riddle other than he was one of the survivors of Aslevjal, he's a guard, he's a kings man, and he's hooked up with Nettle (Whom i'm sure had a whole castle full of hotties to choose from!) He was just too handy and pliable. We really didn't get much insght into how Nettle has matured- or Dutiful. I'm hoping that the next two books are REALLY LONG! and very detailed.

Yeah, I felt cheated at just 650 pages, I'd like at least 850 next time round please.

I loved the part after Bee had been humiliated in the school room and Fitz found her in the secret passages. When he told Bee he'd stuck up for her and she jumped onto his lap. Later at dinner that evening he started to mention about the importance of poems and rhymes in learning their history, do you think he was looking through a peep hole into the school room?

Em wrote: "I loved the part after Bee had been humiliated in the school room and Fitz found her in the secret passages. When he told Bee he'd stuck up for her and she jumped onto his lap. Later at dinner that..."

Hobb's books are heavily laden with the promise of (physical or intellectual) ass-kicking, because there are always characters who know more or can do more than other people think. They're thus able to put others in their place - and yet they hardly ever actually do, due to things getting in the way (most obviously, Fitz as a super-assassin with super-magic who at one point was able to tear a man to shreds at a distance using only his mind, and who knows all the knowledge of the apparatus of the secret police state and more beside... but who can never tell anyone anything).

So yeah, that scene is fantastic as one of the very few times when somebody (in this case Lant and Shun) does get appropriately slapped in the face.

What do you think about Bee's magics?

I think she has both the Skill and the Wit. The Skill is quite obvious that she has, she senses her father's thoughts and emotions. But the Wit is a bit more difficult to figure out maybe. Some pointed out that she spoke with the cat and that she could hear Fitz and the old dog speak with each other, but then somebody said that cats speak to anyone they want and that the Skill might be the reason she heard Fitz and the dog.

But when Revel dies in front of Per and Bee, she instantly knows that he is dead while Per is still believing him to live. I think that is because Bee is Witted.

Linnea wrote: "What do you think about Bee's magics?

I think she has both the Skill and the Wit. The Skill is quite obvious that she has, she senses her father's thoughts and emotions. But the Wit is a bit more..."
Remember how she was 'burned' by the strength of Fitz's questing. The white prophet with the skill and the wit would be too powerful, don't you think?

Finally put up my review.
A couple of sentences on GR here.

But if you're actually interested in what I think, you can see my full review over here.

(I don't like giving my full reviews to GR, I'd rather keep them on my own blog.)