J.R.R. Tolkien Epic Reads discussion

Okay another one up. I'll try to finish off the topics for FotR either today or tomorrow, depending on how much peace and quiet I get between now and that point in time when they're all up. Also I'm sorry in advance for any missing accents from here on out, my computer doesn't like them very much. LOL. :)

Chapters for book II as followed:

IV: A Journey in the Dark

V: The Bridge of Khazad-dum

VI: LothLorien

VII: The Mirror of Galadriel

In David Day's "Tolkien: A Dictionary", the Watcher in the Water is identified as a Kraken. Does Tolkien ever name the Watcher as the Kraken, and if so, where? Thanks.

I have always loved the use of the word “doom” as one of the sounds of the Khazad-dum drums. It’s so foreboding.

Generally, I prefer the book in all cases to movie interpretations, but the end of ‘The Bridge of Khazad-dum’ is unique for me. Partly, it’s the music and soundtrack, but that shift from pounding music and dramatic tension with Gandalf hanging from the bridge saying “Fly, you fools!” to the silence of the next scene, and the company weeping and staggering over the rocks outside is so poignant.

It’s one instance where the visuals of the film capture the feeling of the moment so much better than the text on the page. I never felt slighted by the text, but I distinctly remember that scene from the first showing in the theater really capturing the moment so perfectly. It put my feelings as a reader right up on the screen, and made the sense of loss at Gandalf’s fall visceral and real.

“He suspects, but he does not know – not yet. Do you not see now wherefore your coming is to us as the footstep of Doom? For if you fail, then we are laid bare to the Enemy. Yet if you succeed, then our power is diminished, and Lothlorien will fade, and the tides of Time will sweep it away. We must depart into the West, or dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten.”

Before this passage, Galadriel’s ring Nenya, the Ring of Adamant, is described. Later she says the rings “give power according to the measure of each possessor”. I’m assuming that when she says failure (i.e. Sauron gets The Ring) will lay them bare to the Enemy she means Sauron will be able to finally see her through Nenya and control her. She previously indicated Sauron has been trying to see her thoughts but is not able.

When she indicated success means their (Elves of Lothlorien) power will diminish and Lothlorien will fade, is that because Nenya will then fail since the lesser rings are tied to the One Ring? Are her powers of protection in the lands of Lothlorien tied to Nenya? Thus, without Nenya, they are vulnerable (“diminished”) and will need to go West to the Undying Lands.

Yes, George, I think that’s it. If Sauron gets the ring they will be revealed to him. He can’t see them initially because he had no hand in crafting them. I’m not sure if they come under its control, or if they are just revealed to him. I think it somewhere says they are masked from his knowledge because he didn’t craft them, but they are open to its control if Sauron gets the ring.

Either way, their power is tied to it in some way. They will diminish if it is destroyed, or be controlled by the one ring if wielded.

Thanks James. To make sure I understand. Galadriel's ability to place a protection spell around Lothlorien is because of her possession of the ring Nenya and not some other Elven power/ability, correct? If so, that's a new revelation to me. I always believed Galadriel, who lived in Aman, had some special ability she developed over the ages. I never tied it to Nenya until I recently re-read the chapter.

Basically, yes. I think it’s tied to the quote you mentioned about “power according to the possessor.” She is able to augment her abilities with the use of the ring, but that ties them to it, so that if it’s power weakens, the effects brought by its use wane.

It is her power that cloaks the wood, but the ring amplifies that ability, and entwines it to the ring’s fate. When it fails, things wrought with it fail also.