Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

This thread is for background information and general discussion of our December 2018 New School Group Read selection, The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin.

Please DO NOT post spoilers in this thread.

Looking forward to something different after a few Victorian novels recently.

I read the first novel in the Hainish cycle (Rocannon’s world) and didn’t like it at all, but I believe each book is pretty much stand alone and can be read independently.

This was my first Le Guin novel and I was thoroughly impressed. I had a bit of trouble starting out, but after the first bit I was hooked. Very thought-provoking novel.

I had a hard time getting started too. Actually I did not like this all that much until halfway through. After that point, I raced to the end. Even so, I recognize this is a great story, but sci-fi simply isn't my thing.

I've started listening, this will be the first book I've read by Le Guin. I'm don't often read sci-fi, but I enjoy the classics from this genre. This book is included on a few best of lists etc. so now it's a group read it's time I give it a try.

This is my first book by Le Guin. I see that it is Book #4 in the series. Will that be a problem for me?

I don't think so.I remember reading somewhere that she did not write it as a series to be read/arranged in order but more as different standalones set in the same world.

siriusedward wrote: "I don't think so.I remember reading somewhere that she did not write it as a series to be read/arranged in order but more as different standalones set in the same world."

Great! Thanks :)

siriusedward wrote: "I don't think so.I remember reading somewhere that she did not write it as a series to be read/arranged in order but more as different standalones set in the same world."

I've heard the same. I read this one but had not read the others and it was not a problem at all.

I’m struggling with this. I’m almost 1/3 through, but I’m not very interested in the story and don’t feel the pull to pick it up. Should I ditch it and move on, or persevere with it?

Pink wrote: "I’m struggling with this. I’m almost 1/3 through, but I’m not very interested in the story and don’t feel the pull to pick it up. Should I ditch it and move on, or persevere with it?"

It's hard to say. I did not like the first half but but found the second half rather compelling. There is a rather drastic difference between the two halves, so maybe if you persevere you will begin to feel the pull. If you make it to chapter 13, this is where the change begins.

Thanks Laurie, I'm on chapter 10, so I'll read a little more today and see how I feel later.

Finished! I’m glad I stuck with it. I see what people mean that the second half is different to the first, although I enjoyed them about equally.

Pink wrote: "Finished! I’m glad I stuck with it. I see what people mean that the second half is different to the first, although I enjoyed them about equally."

I am glad you finished. One more read from our bookshelf.

I've been very interested in the use of shadow in this book, it seems to have deep and disparate meanings to the Karhide and the Orgoreyn.

Page 65 Estraven
I must learn to live without
shadows as they do in Orgoreyn; not to take offense; not to offend uselessly.

Page 70 Obsle
None of your damn shadowy Karhidish metaphors, now Estraven. I wave shifgrethor; I discard it.

Page 120/121 Genli Ai
yet each of them lacked some quality, some dimension of being; and they failed to convince. They were not quite solid. It was, I thought, as if they did not cast shadows.

It seems to imply a willfully absent depth of character in the people of Orgoreyn.

Page 200 Looks like shadows are a fundamental part of the Orgoreyn creation mythos.

Each of the children born to them had a piece of darkness the followed him about wherever he went by daylight. Edondurath said, "Why are my sons followed the spy darkness?" His kemmering said, "Because they were born in the house of flesh, therefore death follows at their heels. They are in the middle of time. In the beginning there was the son and the ice, and there was a shadow. In the end when we are done, the sun will devour itself and shadow will eat light, and there will be nothing left but the ice and the darkness."

Estraven and Genli Ai have both pointed out the Orgotha live without shadows.

Shifgrethor comes from the old word for shadow. Shifgrethor which is intrinsic to Karhide culture, the cautious game of pride, honor, manner, and esteem.

I’ve also heard it’s attributed to Taoism.

This book was cool deep water and I loved it!
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I'm envious of all of you who are coming to Le Guin for the first time. She's a real gem.

Unfortunately, Le Guin no longer is but was a great author. RIP. About a year ago several of my favorite female authors went. C'est la vie, c'est le mort, it happens to all of us sooner or later.

I am 1/3 finished, exactly where Pink was in message #10. I was wondering if I had made a mistake. I glad she posted message #13, I feel much better about continuing.

Richp wrote: "Unfortunately, Le Guin no longer is but was a great author. RIP. About a year ago several of my favorite female authors went. C'est la vie, c'est le mort, it happens to all of us sooner or later."

As long as her books are around, she's "is" to me :)

Good luck Bob!

I'm just starting Chapter 9 and liking it so far. But I'm glad to see some of the comments here, especially about the second half being better than the first. I'm looking forward to that!

Terris wrote: "I'm just starting Chapter 9 and liking it so far. But I'm glad to see some of the comments here, especially about the second half being better than the first. I'm looking forward to that!"

I don't think everyone agrees that the second half is better, but since you like it so far I hope you will continue to enjoy the story. I look forward to your thoughts.

Laurie wrote: "Terris wrote: "I'm just starting Chapter 9 and liking it so far. But I'm glad to see some of the comments here, especially about the second half being better than the first. I'm looking forward to ..."

I'll let you know :)

I'm in the middle of Chapter 16 and there's certainly more action now than in the first part of the book. But I'm still not sure where all this is going, so I'm interested to see how it all comes out. I should finish by Saturday, if not before :)

I just started and am glad to hear that many of you liked the second half better as I am not crazy about it so far and really dislike the narrator. His definition of “feminine” qualities is insulting and tiresome (perhaps I should read less from the 1960’s...) but I have greatly enjoyed other books while disliking the narrator. Plus, I absolutely loved The Lathe of Heaven so I shall continue...

Erin wrote: "I just started and am glad to hear that many of you liked the second half better as I am not crazy about it so far and really dislike the narrator. His definition of “feminine” qualities is insulti..."

I just finished and enjoyed it overall. The second half does have more action, so it may pick up for you. As for the definitions of feminine qualities -- yes, it could be 1960's stuff, but surprisingly the author is a woman. Go figure....

I'm a big fan of this book and UKL in general.

Lena wrote: "I’ve also heard it’s attributed to Taoism. "

UKL came from an anthropology background, and was steeped in Taoism. Taoism affects all of her work, and the concept of shadows is everywhere in her books, especially A Wizard of Earthsea.

Terris wrote: "As for the definitions of feminine qualities -- yes, it could be 1960's stuff, but surprisingly the author is a woman. Go figure.... "

In the afterward to The Tombs of Atuan, UKL explains that she didn't want to write about women doing traditionally male things because that was not the society she lived in. UKL felt that writing fiction that reflected the gender roles of her time was more relevant than the badass lady adventurer trope.

Ironically, I consider UKL to be a badass lady adventurer in her own way.

I think projecting reality is a valid perspective for change.

This book is always checked out of my local library so it goes in the future TBR pile. I hate when that happens.

Bob wrote: "I am 1/3 finished, exactly where Pink was in message #10. I was wondering if I had made a mistake. I glad she posted message #13, I feel much better about continuing."

Bob, I'm having the same experience you and Pink had with this book: I just can't get into it. I reached the halfway mark this morning and thought about giving up, but was encouraged to see everyone's comments. I'll definitely stick with it.

Jennifer, I really enjoyed the second half of the book and I am glad I didn't quit. But it was at the halfway point I was no longer uncomfortable sticking with the story.

This is the No Spoiler thread for our December 2023 Revisit the Shelf book The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin,

This early posting of the No Spoiler thread is to discuss any non-plot issues pertaining to the book.

Appropriate Posts can contain:
1. Information about the author.
2. Compare editions/translations.
3. Any historical or background information
4. Are you familiar with this author’s work? Do you have any expectations going into the book?
5. What made you decide to read this book?
6. Any fan fiction that you have read or would like to read? Just link the books.
7. If you loved the book and want others to share in that experience, use this thread to motivate others, again save plot specifics for the Spoiler thread
8. If you hated the book, it would be best to keep that for the spoiler page

The most important thing to remember is no plot discussion. Any post that contains plot information or spoilers will be deleted.

Phil wrote: "Ironically, I consider UKL to be a badass lady adventurer in her own way..."

So well said, Phil! - What she did to SF makes most tech-nerdy male SF-writers look pretty infantile.

Sorry if it was asked before but is it recommended to read other books from Hainish Cycle first? This one is listed as 4th in the series.

No. I believe that they were all out of print when Left Hand was published, and the whole series was written out of chronological sequence.

That said, Rocannon’s World, Planet of Exile, and City of Illusion are all worth reading, and very short. They get increasingly sophisticated, but even the first is on a par with good Andre Norton, which in my opinion is very good adventure science fiction. They are available on Kindle as Worlds of Exile and Illusion, as well as in a Library of America omnibus with Left Hand, The Dispossessed, and assorted stories

Ian wrote: "No. I believe that they were all out of print when Left Hand was published, and the whole series was written out of chronological sequence.

That said, Rocannon’s World, Planet of Exile, and City o..."

I completely agree with Ian. The earlier works are very much like the 50's Golden Age of Science Fiction. They have the pulp magazine feel to them. The Left Hand of Darkness is where Le Guin really finds her individual voice.

There are nine works listed in the Hainish Cycle. I have read 6 of the nine so far. It's one of my long-term goals to finish that series. I think I may reread The Left Hand of Darkness. I read it as an assigned book in a college literature class. That was a good class.

I may have been mistaken about the earlier Hainish novels being out of print when Left Hand was published, as they were published in 1966 and 1967, and may have been in the Ace catalogue, if not in bookstores, when Left Hand appeared in 1969. I had the vague impression it was published in the early 1970s, having confused it with another Ace Special of the time.

I am considering Reading the Hainish Cycle next year, which would involve some rereading. I may not fully complete the cycle. It has been a few years since I read any of the works and almost 40 years for two of the novels. To get a better overview of the "Cycle" the wikipedia article was rather helpful for me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainish...

Note though that Le Guin did not intend for them to be a connected series.

I decided to start from the beginning of Hainish Cycle , as Ian mentioned novels are not very long so I should be able to join The Left Hand of Darkness reading in December.

Rocannon's World is amazing so far, legend about Semley and the necklace, just beautiful. I think i'm going to like this entire series.

Jakub wrote: "I decided to start from the beginning of Hainish Cycle , as Ian mentioned novels are not very long so I should be able to join The Left Hand of Darkness reading in December.

[book:Rocannon's World..."

I hope you do!!

I've owned this book for quite some time, but never have had time to read. I will see if I can start it soon if I can finish up a few more reads.

I believe others I have met at Goodreads have just read this one novel, so I will try that way for now. If it doesn't work for me, O will start at the beginning next year.

I'm about 50 pages in and not really getting into this one very much. I liked The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia as I read it years ago, but this one isn't as interesting so far. There is quite a bit of world building going on so I will see how things go from here.

Franky wrote: "I'm about 50 pages in and not really getting into this one very much. I liked The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia as I read it years ago, but this one isn't as interesting so far. Th..."

I felt that way the first time around too Franky. Left has some fascinating ideas, but I definitely found it less engaging than Disposessed and other Le Guin books. If I have time in December, I'll give it another try with the group. Last time I think I read it alone.

Franky wrote: "I'm about 50 pages in and not really getting into this one very much. I liked The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia as I read it years ago, but this one isn't as interesting so far. Th..."

I also really liked The Dispossessed. I preferred the political explorations over the sexual business.

In my opinion, there was an episode of Start Trek The Next Generation that borrowed from The Left Hand of Darkness

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Out...

And I hope I haven't said too much in the No Spoiler thread.

I'm sticking to my plan of reading first 3 parts of Hainish Cycle before trying The Left Hand of Darkness.
Rocannon's World was great, i'm not sure if I read fantasy or sci-fi, it seemed to me like a blend of two genres. Short and great read, description of various adventures and meeting unknown creatures somehow reminded me of Hobbit and journey Thorin and company had to undertake.
Planet of Exile I've just started and so far so good, i'm very interested in how story will unfold. There was small mention of Rocannon's World so far, but it seems like they don't have to be read in any order.

Jakub wrote: "I'm sticking to my plan of reading first 3 parts of Hainish Cycle before trying The Left Hand of Darkness.
Rocannon's World was great, i'm not sure if I read fantasy or sc..."

I looked at my reviews. Planet of Exile is a book that I gave 5*. I read it in late October 2019. I can't really remember details from the book, but it says that I read it in two days.

I've gotten a pretty good start on the novel now, about 1/3 of it, so checking in to read the comments. I did read LeGuin's The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia six years ago and really enjoyed it- thought-provoking. I rated it four stars but I remember it very well and in hindsight I probably should have rated it a five, So I have long thought I would read another of her novels at some time. Now's the time! Has anyone mentioned that this novel won both the big scifi awards, the Hugo & Nebula, for the year it was published?
So far Left Hand is not clicking with me as much as Dispossessed did but hopefully that will begin to happen soon. I saw that Laurie five years ago said, "There is a rather drastic difference between the two halves, so maybe if you persevere you will begin to feel the pull".
I'm listening to the audiobook from the library read by George Guidall. I've listened to a couple of his other recordings such as The Good Earth- he does a very good job. I do read about twice as many paper as audiobooks; I like to have a mix.

So I was going to sit down last night and read The Left Hand of Darkness, but I couldn't find my copy anywhere. It was 1987, and I have moved twice since then, lol. Funny thing is I did find the companion The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia

I ordered a copy - I thought for this one a physical copy would be better than e reading. It should be here Tuesday or Wednesday - 2 or 3 days from now.