The Sword and Laser discussion

Stop everything! The trailer for Avengers 4 just dropped!

Avengers: Endgame

https://youtu.be/hA6hldpSTF8

Hmm... Teaser-ish.

Yeah, like I needed any MORE reason to go to Avengers 4. Infinity Gauntlet - check. Thanos - check. Warlock would be the icing on the cake, but even without him there is soooooo much to love.

It’s definitely just a teaser. The only thing I could say with absolute certainty based on that trailer is that it looks like Clint has lost his family which has driven him become a dark avenger, adopting the persona of Arrow Ronin.

I’m curious as to how Scott got out of the Quantum Realm, but it looks like he’s driving Luis’ van, so maybe everyone in his life got dusted, too.

I hadn’t thought about Adam Warlock... maybe he saves Tony and Nebula. That would be pretty awesome. Although having Captain Marvel show up super early would work, too. I doubt she would be out in space since Fury paged her back on Earth, unless she just happened to pass them by as she was heading to Earth.

I do kinda hope Captain America sacrifices himself, raising his status to being the ultimate icon of the MCU. Even better would be if he gets sent off to another world where he has to survive, then dramatically returns 10 years from now in New Avengers 2. Maybe they can riff off of Castaway in Dimension Z where instead of Cap raising Arnim Zola’s son, he can raise the Hulk’s son Skaar on Sakaar. (In the Dimension Z storyline, the Green Skull is basically trying to do to Earth what Thanos did to the universe, so thematically it fits.)

I’m also hoping that the characters who died pre-snap stay dead, just to give the story some heft. Plus creating a clean break between MCU storylines. That means no more Loki, Vision, Heimdall or Gamora.

I've seen others comment they think the scenes with Tony recording a message to Pepper is *late* in the movie after they've succeeded, and that's why Nebula isn't with him and he has a true Iron Man helmet instead of a nano-created one.

Personally, I think the helmet could still be nano-created and he, you know, took it off. But I'm withholding judgment until I see the movie.

Or, it's just the usual editing magic for trailers and teasers, where either the character is just off screen OR the scene simply is not in the movie like that.
The Ronin thing is obvious, even though I always asked myself even in the comics - you were a joke with bow and arrow between Gods, Supersoldiers and Aliens - so you downgrade to a sword?
Took me two viewings to understand that the scarecrow is Thanos Armour and not some other heroes remnants.

Daniel wrote: "Instead of Adam Warlock how about Nova? It feels like they've set up for an introduction of the character. "

That would be cool, too. Endless possibilities, really. I mean, why not Moondragon and Pip?

Since this is all supposed to be time travel, which is pretty much guaranteed at this point, they get to have their cake and eat it, too. So they can kill off Tony only to go back in time and save him.

Notice in the corner of the video with Ant-Man at the front door it reads “1983 Archive.” Implying that Scott went through a time vortex in the Quantum Realm and tried to contact the Avengers 35 years earlier. So maybe he gets to meet younger Hank Pym (explaining how Pym knew to watch out for Scott in the original Ant-Man movie) as well as Howard Stark and Agent Carter. (Although none of them are on the cast list.)

Daniel wrote: "Instead of Adam Warlock how about Nova? It feels like they've set up for an introduction of the character.

Otherwise, as it is a teaser I wonder how much of that will really be in the actual movie."

Why not both? Phase 4 will need new blood. I'd love for it to take on more of a space/cosmic feel.

I want Jack of Hearts and Quasar. And Rom: Spaceknight, although I know that'll never happen because of licensing issues.

(I remember when Quasar had a monthly series that was basically Marvel Trademark/Copyright Retention Monthly -- he'd have all of these guest stars who were just on the verge of lapsing. Or at least that was my theory.)

I think Hasbro has the license to Rom now for films. They've had him in the IDW comics for awhile now.

As for Avengers Endgame, I'd be happy to just see the movie at this point! : ) Enough with the teases and waiting. Want! Want now!

Cap is wearing his Winter Soldier era costume and has the haircut to match. Implies to me that some of the rumors of them visiting past films via time travel to steal the infinity stones is true which is why he had look like he used to look so he could impersonate himself.

Rik wrote: "Cap is wearing his Winter Soldier era costume and has the haircut to match. Implies to me that some of the rumors of them visiting past films via time travel to steal the infinity stones is true wh..."

I kind of like the idea that the past scenes are created using BARF, rather than actual time travel, and all the time travel theories have been seeded to throw us off.

That said, I still think it’s a time travel movie.

Has anyone talked to Mark Ruffalo lately? He’s probably accidentally spilled the entire plot at this point.

Trike wrote: "Has anyone talked to Mark Ruffalo lately? He’s probably accidentally spilled the entire plot at this point."

I think Disney hired Don Cheadle to follow him at all times, ready to smack him on the back of his head.

New trailer. Sure looks like a lot of spoilers, so maybe don’t watch it. (It comes out April 26th, after all.) But my god, the epic feels.

https://youtu.be/TcMBFSGVi1c

(view spoiler)[In Avengers: Disassembled, Hawkeye dies in an exploding Kree spaceship. Looks an awful lot like that shot in the trailer.

Those suits with the white sure look a lot like the ones worn by the Future Foundation, the next phase of the Fantastic Four. One of the things the FF does is get involved with time travel in the Microverse, which the MCU calls the Quantum Realm.

The fact that both Tony and Gamora are with them but Captain Marvel, Rocket and Thor aren’t is intriguing. Not sure if that’s significant or just an editing thing. (hide spoiler)]

I didn’t like Captain Marvel showing up there at the end but that might just be because I haven’t seen her movie yet. I might feel differently after I’ve seen it.

But aside from that I feel pretty stocked about this movie.

I'm pretty sure Adam Warlock won't appear until Guardians of the Galaxy 3.

Tamahome wrote: "I'm pretty sure Adam Warlock won't appear until Guardians of the Galaxy 3."

If that even happens now...

Actually, they just announced that James Gunn will be back for Guardians 3.

https://slate.com/culture/2019/03/jam...

Joseph wrote: "Actually, they just announced that James Gunn will be back for Guardians 3.

https://slate.com/culture/2019/03/jam..."

Excellent news.

The issue with Marvel trailers is that the, uh, sometimes fake us out with things in the trailer that don't make the movie, etc.

I'm patiently waiting for more people to have seen the film. I re-watched all movies (except Captain Marvel) over the past few weeks. I firmly believe the Russo Brother films hold the top four positions of the list. That being said, I want to discuss my favorite moments, such as:

(view spoiler)[
1.The ease of decapitating Thanos in the first fifteen minutes!
2. Korg playing Fortnite
3. Fat Thor
4. Hail Hydra!
5. War Machine and Nebula watching Star-Lord dance
6. Ronin slaughtering the Yakuza
7. "Cap, on your left"
8. The charge of the Women Brigade!
9. Spider-Man using death mode
10. The sacrifices made by Black Widow and Iron Man, especially Black Widow.
11. Pretty much everything else about the movie.

(hide spoiler)]

I'm already planning my next trip for watch number two!

(view spoiler)[A lot of good parts to the movie, but I think as a whole it didn't work for me as the end of the story. It felt like a bunch of vignettes to either tie up loose ends, or to appease fans - and those parts were fun! But overall, it didn't work for me.
Plus, BW was my wife's favorite character and she was in tears for the rest of the movie after that.
I'm interested to know what this means for the Disney+ MCU shows and movies moving forward. Vision didn't come back. Loki didn't come back. OG Gamorra didn't come back. BW has a movie coming out. Will Thor be in GotG3? How will AoS address this as I believe the next season is set after the Snap and before the Five Years Later.
Also: Natalie Portman huh? That was a surprise.
(hide spoiler)]

KevBayer wrote: "spoiler"

(view spoiler)[ I wonder if Loki IS back or not. 2012 Loki got the space stone and teleported out. Granted, the timelines were meant to be preserved, but could the space stone teleport him to the new Loki-was-dead timeline? (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[I enjoyed the movie, but I can't let myself think too hard about it, because despite their lampshade hanging with the talk of Back to the Future and other time travel movies, their time travel paradox avoidance really makes no sense.

KevBayer, one of the things that's always frustrated me with the Avengers movies is their attempt to convert single-protagonist characters into ensembles and it doesn't always work (aside from GotG, which basically started that way) (hide spoiler)]

Saw it. I’m dead.

Talk about sticking the landing. Day-ammm. 11 years and 22 movies later, that was the perfect epic conclusion to this amazing cinematic experience.

Weirdly, a lightning strike hit the theatre mid-movie, knocking out all the projectors for half an hour. So we missed part of the movie. (view spoiler)[From right when Ant-Man went into Stark’s arc reactor, picking up with them in a car and Tony holding his head, saying something about being hit by the Hulk. I’m going to see it again, of course, but I’m curious about what I missed. (hide spoiler)]

Anyway, based on the line in my theatre and the fact a Friday 3:10 show was packed, I’m guessing this will make all the money.

(view spoiler)[
The call-backs were perfect. Both the time travel ones and the dialogue ones.
Thanos: “I am inevitable.”
Tony: “I am... Iron Man.”

Even the call-back to IM3 where they blow up Tony’s house was cool, and that’s the only Marvel movie I don’t like.

I’m guessing that the post-credits scene in Captain Marvel (https://youtu.be/e80SGvLKyV8) takes place right before this story starts, and they sent Carol out to look for Tony. That handily explains that bit, although not how she found them. Minor detail.

The time travel plot uses actual physics, which blew me away. The *method* does not uses physics, but the results do. The current theory is that time travel decouples cause from effect. That means there is no paradox. The classic Grandfather Paradox no longer holds sway. (Where you go back in time and prevent your grandparents from meeting, thereby erasing you from existence, which keeps you from preventing their meeting.) They kept hammering at this idea - hilariously - so I’m pretty sure Markus and McFeely are up on this concept.
- which explains why 2023 Nebula can kill 2014 Nebula and still survive. No cause and effect.

Although there are a few questions, such as how does the timeline progress as we saw it without Thor’s hammer? Removing Mjolnir from 2013 and taking it to 2023 changes some things. The defeat of Surtur, for one. Oh well.

I get that Steve Rogers, who is inherently good, wouldn’t use his knowledge of the future to gain advantages he didn’t earn, but we know from Winter Soldier that Peggy had a husband. Who’d that poor guy end up with? As much as I’m happy that Steve and Peggy got their happily ever after, I kinda feel bad for that unknown dude.

It was awesome to see Jarvis from the Agent Carter TV series again. That was a nice touch.

The Girl Squad moment was amazing.

A number of people have done the whole “rank the superhero entrance” thing, with the scene where Thor, Rocket and Groot appear in Wakanda (https://youtu.be/rLL11dEMGdU) universally taking the top spot. Until today I would have concurred with that assessment. I’m pretty sure Doctor Strange arriving with an army now takes the top spot.
Strange: “Is this everyone?”
Wong: “You wanted *more*?”
...and then Giant Man explodes out of the rubble with Hulk, Rhodey and Rocket.😁

Hawkeye and Black Widow both trying to sacrifice themselves was the best action scene I’ve seen in a while. Because it was cool, yes, but also because no matter who came out on top, the audience takes the emotional punch to the face. And boy did I.

I got my wish for the pre-snappers to stay dead. But boy that’s cruel to Wanda. I hadn’t even thought about what she now has to live with.

But damn, that confrontation between Wanda and Thanos was awesome. She was full on raging witch.
Wanda: “You took verything from me!”
Thanos: “I don’t even know you.”
Wanda: “You will.” (hide spoiler)]

I laughed, I cried, I cheered. I loved it.

Trike wrote: "Weirdly, a lightning strike hit the theatre mid-movie, knocking out all the projectors for half an hour. So we missed part of the movie. [spoilers removed]

Anyway, based on the line in my theatre ..."

That's terrible luck, but fortunately a convenient excuse for an immediate second viewing.

After seeing Endgame I was like those kids on Teletubbies: “Again! Again!”

Google “Thanos” and click the glove. Then click it again.

Trike wrote: "Google “Thanos” and click the glove. Then click it again."

Snort!

The post credits "scene" was interesting! A touch disappointing...

(view spoiler)[Sounds of smithing... I guess they have not cast the actor (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[That's supposed to be the sound of Stark hammering his original Iron Man outfit together, not someone new as far as I know. (hide spoiler)]

Patiently waiting for a Warlock tv series (not in the movie, but in the comics he's strongly related to the Infinity saga. Jim Starlin ftw (the comic book creator of all this, I wonder how much money he's getting). I think S&L should read The Infinity Gauntlet. It won't take long. I'm not seeing the movie until Tuesday, but I'm strongly tempted to go sooner.

*Ack* Ahem...

(view spoiler)[I want a "Captain Ameri-Thor" movie and I want it now! (hide spoiler)]

John (Taloni) wrote: "*Ack* Ahem...

"

And....


(view spoiler)[Asguardians of the Galaxy (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[ Although there are a few questions, such as how does the timeline progress as we saw it without Thor’s hammer? Removing Mjolnir from 2013 and taking it to 2023 changes some things. The defeat of Surtur, for one. Oh well.

I believe Cap returned it when he returned all the stones to their original locations. he had it in his hand when he was sent back. (hide spoiler)]

Can't wait to read this spoilers after tomorrow night.

Mike wrote: " Although there are a few questions, such as how "

Good point. That was pointed out to me in the other thread. I’m blaming my cataracts for missing that one. (They *do* come in handy!) I do wonder how (view spoiler)[Cap got to Asgard, but that’s a minor quibble. Maybe he just left it on Earth and it flew back to Asgard when Thor called it. We saw it trying to do that in Dark World, after all. (hide spoiler)]

As for my other question, I rewatched Winter Soldier and Civil War and (view spoiler)[we never hear the name of Peggy’s husband nor see a photo of him, so maybe it was Steve all along. I wonder if they had that in mind at the time or if it was like Ant-Man where they simply hadn’t cast anyone as Janet yet, so they just didn’t show her face. (hide spoiler)]

Trike wrote: "As for my other question, I rewatched Winter Soldier and Civil War and (view spoiler) "

(view spoiler)[I read somewhere she got married around 1945, so it's possible by 1970 he was no longer in the picture. (hide spoiler)]

As for Cap...

(view spoiler)[Just how old is he, anyway? How good is the Super Soldier serum? I say it's possible he went back to the late 1940s, swore Peggy to secrecy, married her and stayed in the background. For all we know he was a clandestine super hero for decades.

And also, perhaps we DO see a picture of Peggy's husband...right there on her desk. She is hiding her relationship in plain sight. (hide spoiler)]

I don't suppose Pip the Troll is in this.

Tamahome wrote: "I don't suppose Pip the Troll is in this."

I can neither confirm nor deny this.

John (Taloni) wrote: "As for Cap......."

(view spoiler)[I’ll pop in my disk later to see if it says on the paperwork in First Avenger, but online it gives his MCU DOB as July 4th, 1918. So if he was lost in the ice in late 1944/early 1945, he was 26. I don’t know how aging works in hibernation, but he looked almost identical when they pulled him out in 2011, so I guess the aging process was arrested. The end of Endgame takes place in 2023, which would make him 38ish.

When Steve and Peggy are dancing, a new-looking late-1940s car drives by their house, which could place the year somewhere around 1950. (I’m kind of a car guy, but I also have cataracts, so I could really only see the color and shape. If forced to choose, I would say it’s a 1949 Buick Roadmaster, maybe a ‘49 Chrysler New Yorker or Windsor. All these new cars look alike, dangit.) The song they dance to is “It's Been a Long, Long Time” by the Harry James Orchestra which is a 1945 tune, so that’s no help.

The Agent Carter TV series is canon, and the first season takes place in 1946 while the second takes place soon thereafter. (I liked that human Jarvis from the TV show made an appearance in Endgame. That made me smile.) So the Endgame scene can’t be any earlier than 1947. The car tells me it’s at least 1949, maybe 1950.

In the Winter Soldier museum scene (https://youtu.be/2FRUpWgMTM8) Peggy is interviewed in 1953 and she talks about her husband. It’s implied she married one of the men in Bucky breakout, possibly one of the Howling Commandos since they show up in Agent Carter, but maybe she’s actually referring to Steve. Either that or her husband died, then 10 minutes later Steve knocked on her door. Either of those would explain her pained look in the museum interview.

So with all those caveats, if Steve is 38 in 1948, then by the time he’s sitting on the bench in 2023 he’s physically 113. Super soldier indeed. (hide spoiler)]

Trike wrote: "Tamahome wrote: "I don't suppose Pip the Troll is in this."

I can neither confirm nor deny this."

Isn't he the one who brought the Hostess Fruit Pies they used to ultimately dissuade Thanos from his evil scheme?

Okay, on the subject of Pip...

(not really spoilers but we're spoiler protecting everything at this point)

(view spoiler)[Everyone knows who Pip is, right? Warlock's best friend, the human who got turned into a troll during a night of excess?

While I'd love to see Pip, there's no need for him or even Adam Warlock at this point. Yeah, I really wanted to see Warlock, but since they went another direction in the MCU he's lost his reason to show up. It would be like that hatchet job on Skurge in the last Thor movie.

Warlock works best, perhaps only, as the foil to Thanos. He is the conflicted superhero on the side of life while Thanos represents ultimate death. What would they do with him now? (hide spoiler)]

I liked it enough. it is not worth staying to the very end. I will tell you in the spoiler so you can beat it to the bathroom. (view spoiler)[There is a banging on metal with a regular beat. I have no idea what it means. All the stuff they would have put in the credits they just ran at the end of the movie. (hide spoiler)] Still all and all a solid movie with lots to like.

Stephen (view spoiler)[that's Tony making his original Iron Man suit from the first IM movie (hide spoiler)]

I saw it last night as well, and like most people really dug it. Some of it might not work as well as other bits, but overall I thought it was pretty darn good. And yes this was the end of a huge arc, and I’m glad they treated it as that.

(view spoiler)[I know it was already a long movie, and it would have served no plot point, but I think it could have been fun to see Cap returning the stones. I also know they did it that way since he is done with the roll, but a couple episodes of Agent Carter, where they show that, and how he has to hide from her coworkers might be fun.

Most of the digital doubling was good, but as we talked about with Captain Marvel, some of it didn’t work as well. The Robert Redford stuff being some of the worst for me, but It almost seemed like there was something off with Howard Stark as well.

I’m sure most people are happy to have everyone back, but that 5 year gap is going to mess with people, especially for people say under 25. I mean for Peter, half the people he knew in school are now 5 years older, and half is new classmates were 5 years younger when this happened, that’s gota be weird. Not to mention everyone who didn’t take it well, over the last 5 years and either died of natural causes, or just couldn’t deal and committed suicide, now the returners have to deal with that. Oh, well I’m not sure there was a better way of dealing with it. (hide spoiler)]

Anyway, those were some of my thoughts.

John (view spoiler)[I agree that the time jump for half the people is going to be very messed up. I feel like most of the reason for it, especially with Stark repeating it to Hulk, was just so that his daughter Morgan wouldn't get wiped, which is both understandable and pretty darn selfish (I think if Marvel had planned this out better, they'd introduced Morgan a lot earlier so they wouldn't have to do this nonsense). I mean, sheesh, think about all the potential broken families where husband and wives and other partners may have moved on already. Talk about the PTSD that everyone had that's getting re-triggered by everyone returning.

Fun movie, but the implications & fridge logic are horrendous. (hide spoiler)]

Yeah, until we saw how the (view spoiler)[time travel worked (hide spoiler)], I assumed they (view spoiler)[would pick up where they left off, as most of these films do. And as Cap’s trip was supposed to.

So I’ve been wondering how it will work for Spider-Man: Far From Home, which apparently takes place in 2023. Clearly all the main characters got snapped, because they’re all together in the trailer. But you’re right that will be totally weird at that age, especially since you’re all about your graduating year. So if Peter was a sophomore in SM:H then he was a junior in IW, which means he was Class of 2020. Now he’s Class of 2025. (Or maybe it’s 2019 and 2024. The timeline is unclear. Especially since SM:H states at the beginning it takes place 8 years after Loki’s invasion, which would be 2020, while IW takes place 6 years later, which is 2018.)

Still, better than being dead.

We know that Doctor Strange 2 has started pre-production, and I think that’s an excellent opportunity to talk about the effects of the snap. As with Scott in the Quantum Realm, it’s entirely possible someone was on the operating table when the entire surgical staff dusted. That person would die and not be brought back by the Hulk snap.

Some cool story possibilities, anyway. (hide spoiler)]