SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Returning to the Classics!

The Buddy Read for the Iliad will start on January 21st, 2019. This is a well known tale of tales. I don't think spoiler tags will be necessary but you can decide if you need to hide your comments.

I plan to listen to an audiobook and maybe follow along with the ebook.

If there's enough interest, the plan is to follow this up with the Odyssey and Aenied. See ya'll on the late side of January!

[YouKneeK swoops into the thread with these winged words…]

I read this in 2018 and it was an interesting experience. I look forward to following everybody’s comments on it. :)

I’m particularly curious to learn which translations everybody will choose and to see how/if it affects their reading experience. When I was preparing to read this, I read a lot of contradictory arguments about which was the best translation. I eventually just threw up my hands (or my “white arms”?) and picked one. I went with the Lattimore translation because it’s in a verse format and I wanted to get closer to the “traditional” feel of an epic poem. I’m not good with poetry, but it was manageable. I did a lot of reading out loud to help.

@YouKneeK: :D I will choose according to extremely scholastic reasons: whichever is the most affordable as ebook (And I will go for a German one)

LOL Gabi, that seems like a very good basis for a decision! :)

I’m in for the Iliad and Aeneid. I read the Odyssey very recently though. If you do Beowulf and Gilgamesh I’ll join for them too.

Yup cost is totally a factor! Part of what is cool about reading the classics is that a lot of them are free to read online. Google Books has all of them as free ebooks but it's hilarious because they're scan copies.

I would want one that's in verse format. It would be odd to see a translation that's not in verse format. I checked out several on Kindle (a bunch of them are free on Kindle Unlimited or 0.99 cents in the US). Several of them were badly formatted. Double spaced, etc. Or put in verse format but in odd structure that doesn't fit the words.

I'm going to cross my fingers & hope for a good narrator with stage/poetic cadence training.

I plan to reread The Odyssey in 2019, so if anyone decides to read it after The Iliad, I will join in.

The first translation of the Iliad that I read (years ago) was the Samuel Butler translation.

For my second reading of The Iliad (earlier this year) I went with the Fagles translation. I probably wont read all of the Iliad again in January, The Iliad but I plan to read War Music: An Account of Books 1-4 and 16-19 of Homer's Iliad.

Also: the guy who wrote the intro to the Fagles translation that I read really likes the Alexander Pope translation, but I suspect it might be harder to read than the Samuel Butler translation that I read the first time.

I have a hold on the Fagles digital-audio book! Nice to finally read this!

I haven't really done a BR before -- are we aiming to finish on the 21st, or kick off on the 21st, or just start talking out loud about the reading on the 21st? What kind of pace are people intending?

:-)

The idea is to start reading and discussions on the 21st. You can start early or late. There are plenty of people who end up reading the book way pass the start date and come into the thread to talk.

Necroposting has become a hashtag of a sorts in this group. =)

The audios I looked at for the Iliad are about 13 hours. I can do that in a day but I plan on taking my time with it. I'll probably end up listening to it a few times and referencing an online copy to look over parts.

Since I’m not entirely sure the form and style of these classics won’t scare me away, I’m going to go with Danish translations for both the Iliad and the Odyssey by one of our best storytellers Bent Haller, whose original work for children is much loved because of his unsentimental handling of tough subjects and ability to tell a story with layers without talking down to his audience. So I trust he can engage me. They’re available as audiobooks on Storytel which my husband subscribes to, so they’re also “free” (for me, ehehe).

Nice! I like it when an author can tackle tough topics without dumbing it down for children.

I'd definitely join for Gilgamesh if we do it.

I hope you don't mind me joining in the conversation, but I'd like to recommend The Iliad: A New Translation by Caroline Alexander.

From my review:

Alexander does an impressive job. I have read translations of Homer's Iliad by Richmond Lattimore, Robert Fitzgerald, and Robert Fagles. My favorite has always been the Lattimore translation, but I would put Alexander’s translation right up there with the best of them. I found her language to be more accessible and lucid than previous translations. Her lines have a certain rhythmic quality which I can only assume is similar to the Greek. And although I don’t speak Greek, I appreciate her line-by-line translation, retaining the same number of lines as in Homer. This will make it easier for Greek speakers to do a line-by-line comparison.

Beth wrote: "For my second reading of The Iliad (earlier this year) I went with the Fagles translation. I probably wont read all of the Iliad again in January, The Iliad but I plan to read War Music: An Account of Books 1-4 and 16-19 of Homer's Iliad.."

I read War Music: An Account of Homer's Iliad. I thought it was amazing. It just blew me away--a stunning feat of the imagination.

Tamara wrote: "I hope you don't mind me joining in the conversation, but I'd like to recommend The Iliad: A New Translation by Caroline Alexander..."

_I_ certainly don't mind -- I'm just limited on this read by finding "audio" and "free" and "not already checked out", so not all translations are readily available to me!

Tamara wrote: "I hope you don't mind me joining in the conversation, but I'd like to recommend The Iliad: A New Translation by Caroline Alexander."

This one looks to be on sale for $1.99 in the US Kindle store. This ASIN: The Iliad.

Iliad - Caroline Alexander version.

Thanks, Anna, for the heads up on Amazon.

I looked at the sample and I don't think I'm a fan of the way Alexander formatted the poem. The words are fine but the punctuation makes the cadence feel like I'm reading an odd stutter or pauses.

I think I'll look around and see which version I want to listen to and read. For audio, I have two translations readily available from the library and a bunch others via Audible. The older translations are free to read online and most versions are fairly inexpensive ebooks.

I may geek out and get more than one audio version to listen & compare how the story comes across. Hah!

I’ll probably read on audiobook from one of my library apps.

I read the odyssey in high school, but never read the Iliad.

Okay, I narrowed down my choices to the translations by Alexander Pope, Richmond Lattimore and Caroline Alexander. I can get the audio for all three and books on two. =)

This could be my running side project for January. LOL

I could squeeze this I will join ;)

Anna wrote: "Tamara wrote: "I hope you don't mind me joining in the conversation, but I'd like to recommend The Iliad: A New Translation by Caroline Alexander."

This one looks to be on sale for..."

Weird that the e-book that can be downloaded from its GR page is actually Samuel Butler's translation.

So I looked at the Caroline Alexander translation and I agree with Soo- something about the formatting is throwing me off. It feels very staggered/stilted.

I was looking at other possible translations, and came across one by Peter Green. It seems very accessible but maybe too simple? Has anyone read that one?

The reasoning behind Caroline Alexander's translation are cool but the way she uses punctuation disrupts the flow and distracts from the actual words.

You cannot depend on the Amazon links to be the same as the book listed on GR for Iliad. It was kind of tough looking for translation authors because it is not always noted on the cover or book details.

Comparing translations has become a side project for me. Starting with Pope today.

Beth wrote: "I plan to reread The Odyssey in 2019, so if anyone decides to read it after The Iliad, I will join in.
The first translation of the Iliad that I read (years ago) was the Samuel Butler translation..."

Me too.

I'm planning to, y'know, kind of maybe hopefully, start reading The Odyssey: A New Translation by Peter Green in the next few weeks, I finished reading his The Iliad translation of just before the Holidays.

Inkspill did you like the Peter Green translation? I read the sample and liked it but worried maybe the language was a little plain.

Sarah wrote: "Inkspill did you like the Peter Green translation? I read the sample and liked it but worried maybe the language was a little plain."

This is a difficult question. How do I answer? Ummmm, I didn't think it was plain, plain for me is when I cannot connect with the text, here as I was reading I clearly saw all the scenes, the many different stories and the dynamics between different characters. This was my second read last year but with this translation I began to understand aspects that had baffled me with the previous read. I liked this translation for helping me to understand this story better.

IMHO, I'm new to this kind of reading, the poetical embroidery I think is kept to a minimal for an accessible translation.

Thanks Inkspill! That actually is helpful. Maybe I’ll read it in tandem with another translation. Or maybe I’ll read this one first and something more poetic next. I don’t think Iliad will take long to get through since it’s told in verse.

I'm down for Odyssey. Do it in February? I probably won't try to listen to 3 translations for that one. lol

Odyssey in February is perfect. I already picked up my copy. I’m going with the translator Madeline Miller recommended in Circe, Emily Wilson. I sort of splurged on it on a whim, but I’m not even mad because the cover is gorgeous lol.

I've read and reviewed the Emily Wilson Odyssey. Like everything else, it has its strength and weaknesses.

Her language is probably the most accessible and readable, but some people are turned off by that because she strips it of its epic voice. Personally, I enjoyed it since it provides a different perspective on the characters and events. But I did find her occasional use of modern colloquialisms jarring.

The only one that was accessible for me to start listening to on an app right now is the Pope adaptation. It’s pretty good so far. I was hoping to read the Fitzgerald adaptation read by Dan Stevens, but there’s a wait on that.

Sarah wrote: "Thanks Inkspill! That actually is helpful. Maybe I’ll read it in tandem with another translation. Or maybe I’ll read this one first and something more poetic next. I don’t think Iliad will take lon..."

You're welcome Sarah. Both ideas are good, Green's translation includes a very detailed summary of all 24 books, here's a link to my thoughts about this book and its content https://www.goodreads.com/review/show... of this book.

From memory it took me roughly just over a month to read this, and when I finished I was surprised how much I understood this very complicated story.

I was really pleased about this - it's a book I've managed to avoid reading for years :)

Iliad is part of one of my 2019 challenges but I don't think I'll be ready for it in January. Prepare yourselves for a necropost or two later on! ;)

ETA in response to YouKneek in post 2: Lattimore translation here, too.

Beth wrote: "ETA in response to YouKneek in post 2: Lattimore translation here, too."

I’ll be especially looking forward to your necropost(s) then! :)

I just acquired an English version I want to challenge myself with so I'll try to keep up :)
(admittedly I couldn't find a copy in my native language when I was visiting home...)

Yay

I’m already reading the book on audiobook. I thought I should get a head start 😸

I started the audio for Richmond Lattirmore's translation.

I wanted to comment on the narrators.

Pope - Michael Page
Lattimore - Charlton Griffin

Both of them are great! They have what I describe as stage drama cadence skill.

Page gives a dramatic performance but it is fairly even in tone and styled as an overall storyteller.

Griffin uses a variety of characterized voices in his narration and has a distinct narrator voice. He also adds emotions to the reading and that adds to the atmosphere.

Lattimore's translation is more modern in word choices but he tries to keep it close to original meaning in word choices. Not necessarily in word to word format but idea.

I’m listening to Pope’s adaptation, but it’s read by Jeff Harding, who seems to have read a lot of audiobooks, much as Anthony Heald, for instance, is a well known audiobook narrator (in addition to running an institution for the criminally insane. Haha 😆).

Harding’s is very much a professional audiobook narration, although from someone who primarily does audiobooks, meaning like the one you mentioned, it’s not the same as listening to a famous or character actor like Heald, or Roy Dotrice narrate it and come up with hundreds of character voices.

Harding is good though! I like his narrations. Is he doing a theater style narration or just his usual?

Probably just usual, as he doesn’t do different voices. He reads it excellently though, considering he’s reading a long poem basically.

I want to read this before reading Madeline Miller's Song of Achilles and Circe. I was just doing research today on different translations, looking at side-by-side comparisons of different translations. The version my library has is Fitzgerald's translation however, so I may end up going with that.

Let us know what you think of that version. =)

Are you going audio or reading the print?

I was going to be in, but real-life is winning the competition for my attention. Try to enjoy without me. :-P

I started last night the ebook version of Fagles' translation. This is after trying last year 2 or 3 versions that had Roman names, so I was pleased this version had the Greek names!
I was also worried since English is not my first language, but this version so far (I read first book and most of second book) is okay for my level and flowing nicely.

Melissa wrote: "I want to read this before reading Madeline Miller's Song of Achilles and Circe.."

It's the opposite for me 8D I'm not sure I'd have been able to keep up if I haven't read the Song of Achilles first. Both in terms of the language as well as interest. I definitely have that book in my head as I read, and it adds to my enjoyment, love to see how she interpreted scenes and transpired it into her book. It's an added bonus for me.

I’m not sure if the version I’m reading has the correct Greek names or if it has Roman names. Do most of the older versions have Roman names?

I'm not sure, but possible... I tried the free kindle versions first and they did... Pluto, Juno, Jove/Jupiter intead of Zeus.. I couldn't read past the first verse, but it's probably not a big issue for someone who's not as picky ^^;