Reading the 20th Century discussion

Having finished Invitation to the Waltz many of us are interested in reading on with The Weather in the Streets

The Weather in the Streets was published in 1936, four years after 1932. As we have discovered, it seems that Rosamond Lehmann did have the sequel in her mind when she wrote the first book.

Having enjoyed Waltz very much, I was keen to read on and was pleasantly surprised to find that I have reading company :)

I have not yet finished and I suspect others are also partway through, so can we please avoid spoilers until next week - or use spoiler tags - please. I have no idea what will happen and am trying to avoid reviews, etc. at the moment!

I probably won’t have it though from the library until next week - looking forward to it though.

I have opened the thread as some people have started it, but I suspect most of us will be discussing it from next week onwards.

An interesting Carmen Callil quote on the cover...


"The Weather in the Streets was our Bridget Jones's Diary"

I'd be interesting to discover the extent to which you agree or disagree with Carmen Callil's assertion during the discussion

I haven't read, or watched, Bridget Jones's Diary, so I couldn't say. I don't want to read it either, before someone suggests it :)

I do LOVE the covers on both Waltz and Weather.

Susan wrote: "I haven't read, or watched, Bridget Jones's Diary, so I couldn't say. I don't want to read it either, before someone suggests it :)"

I loved Bridget Jones's Diary. I read it when it came out so my memories are somewhat hazy but I laughed lots and recall it was quite moving.

I also saw the film in the cinema when it was released and enjoyed that too.

I'm pretty sure both would stand up now. It's a lot better than all the hype and mainstream popularity would suggest.

Anyway, I'm curious about the comparison so if anyone who has read both books would be kind enough to comment then I'd be very appreciative.

I enjoyed the film of Bridget Jones, read the book on the back of it and disliked it intensely. I couldn't relate to BJ and her friends at all: the self-absorption, the obsessive calorie-counting and consequent binge-eating, the amount of time she spends socialising with her parents... just no! Perhaps it was very of its time? At least the film made me laugh, the book made me cringe on its behalf.

Weather, on the other hand, is marvellous: the social setting might be of its time but the emotional experience still rings true. Depictions of power and privilege may have slightly different contours now but are essentially still in place.

I suppose what they have in common is exploring the secret life of women - but I never saw myself in BJ.

Thanks Roman Clodia - most illuminating

I have read about the first 100 pages of this and must say I am enjoying it a lot more than Invitation.

Pamela wrote: "I have read about the first 100 pages of this and must say I am enjoying it a lot more than Invitation."

Yay!

Good to hear, Pamela :)

Nigeyb wrote: "I loved Bridget Jones's Diary. I read it when it came out so my memories are somewhat hazy but I laughed lots and recall it was quite moving.

I also saw the film in the cinema when it was released and enjoyed that too. ..."

Same here - I thought the book was great, and I also enjoyed the second book and liked the film a lot - the second film wasn't very good, but I thought the third one was a return to form. I haven't read the third book (which has nothing to do with the third film.)

Having said that, I don't see much similarity at all between Bridget and Invitation to the Waltz, except that I like them both - I am hopefully picking up my copy of The Weather in the Streets tomorrow, so I will watch out for any resemblance!

I'm really liking The Weather in the Streets so far (only about 40 pages in) and agree it is even better than Invitation to the Waltz - more immersive, and hard to put down. At this rate I can see myself wanting to gobble up everything by Lehmann.

I was at a loss to work out what it means near the start, when it is mentioned that Olivia is Etty's "p.g." - I was about to post a question when I suddenly realised it must be "paying guest."

I really must get back to this - I have been behind with group reads and review books, but I was loving this and am keen to finish it and, as you say, read more by Lehmann.

I read this a few years ago, but reading it again after "Invitation to the Waltz" adds an extra insight into the characters now I know what they were like when they were younger.

That's an interesting point, Val. We can see if they grew into the kind of woman they appeared as in the first novel. In a sense, my initial thought is no - as Kate, all set for romance and ambition, seems to have settled for marriage and children. However, perhaps that is incorrect - even though her husband is not as wealthy as her rich neighbours, she has the security and comfort that she perhaps wanted. I don't think she would have given anything away without the security of marriage.

James has also not lived up to those early impressions of future success. Unable to settle, both his, and Olivia's, lives are not yet on a fixed path.

It is difficult to tell whether Kate is happily married or just making the best of things, but she has become quite staid and matronly compared to her quiet determination in the first book.
Marigold does not seem happy, judging by her alcohol consumption, and it is not just Olivia's wishful thinking that there is something very wrong with Rollo and Nicola's marriage.
I suppose it is to be expected that the older generation are fading away and becoming anachronistic, but very few of the younger characters are doing that well either. That makes the book sadder than it was as a stand-alone story.

I am currently at the part where Olivia has embarked on her affair with Rollo. Her initial feelings of romance are being replaced with the realisation that they have to avoid being seen, that she has to hide his presents, etc. Reality is hitting fairly soon.

I'm pleased to have read the first book before this one - I think there's a lot of poignancy in the long sequence at Marigold and Rollo's famly home through the memories of/contrasts with the ball in the previous book. Not that I remember every single character, though.

No, but that comment about the red/pink jackets still rankled, didn't it? It reminded me of how certain comments and events just stay with you - perhaps, especially things that happen when we are young and more easily embarrassed.

I get the feeling Olivia has remembered the whole ball vividly and it has almost turned into a personal myth for her - and yes, that red/pink jackets comment definitely still rankles, as you say, Susan. I've just finished part one now.

I'm in Part Two now, where the affair is under way - I was surprised that it changes to a first-person narration here, which I think is great, helping to build up the intensity. I half-wonder why the whole book isn't first-person - though it does mean that in the opening section we can briefly see through the eyes of Olivia's father, as he comes back to consciousness.

I have just started Part Three. I enjoyed the first-person narration of Part Two as well, Judy. Let me know when you have finished that part, as I am keen to talk about Olivia and Rollo!

Will do, Susan!

I have finished this now - I feel quite wrung out!

That's exactly how I felt - Lehmann has that uncanny knack of making me feel like I've lived through Olivia's experiences myself.

I think people are still reading but when everyone's done, I'd love to know what people think happens after the final line...

I've finished this now too - is anyone still reading it, or can we get into spoilers? I only finished part two last night but was then so hooked I had to read on and finish! I am wondering what happens after the final line too, RC.

Oh, I am fine for spoilers.

I find it interesting that later reviewers criticised female authors of this period, and class, for writing books that do not deal with real life issues. Affairs, between people with too much time on their hands and no real problems. However, I think this novel deals with an issue that, surely, affects half of the world's population, at least?

There are a lot of novels about middle-class people having affairs, not just by female authors and not just from this period, but I don't think it is fair to say that they are not dealing with real life issues. This one is better than run-of-the-mill chick-lit because it does not glamourize the affair at all, showing all the problems as well as the pleasure in each others company.

The final line does suggest that Rollo would be quite keen to start up the affair again, but it was just fun for him, I don't think he was ever as serious about it as Olivia was and he didn't have to deal with the major problem.
There were some hints that perhaps Rollo had had other affairs in the past: George had been on standby to provide alibis for ten years, Rollo rarely called Olivia by her name ('darling' avoids accidentally using the wrong one), he knows places to go where he will not be recognised, people in his club gave knowing looks and so on.

For Rollo, as you say, it was fun. For Olivia, obviously, it was life changing.

Did anyone think of Pride and Prejudice, when Rollo's mother came to visit Olivia?

I also thought Rollo had had previous affairs, and at times I though there were hints he might even be having other affairs or brief flings alongside his relationship with Olivia.

What did anyone think would happen after the final line - will they meet for meals and maybe slip back into an affair again? I thought it seemed possible this would not be the last meeting after all.

I think that, for Olivia, it was over. However, saying that, she was driven to go and see him again, so you never know. I hope she didn't...

I hope so too, Susan. I didn't think of Pride and Prejudice but it's an interesting comparison - I had somewhat more sympathy for Rollo's mother than for Lady Catherine in P&P, though.

I just wondered whether it was a nod to Lady Catherine. Yes, I did think Rollo's mother handled it well, but her realisation of Olivia's condition (and I am pretty sure she did realise) was a shock for her. I think she knew then what she was asking and it was why she stumbled away.

I agree that it's an unfair criticism - the affair trope can involve all kinds of issues around self-identity, gender, empowerment/disempowerment... Interestingly, I'm currently reading The Golden Notebook, one strand of which deals with an affair with a married man - and Lessing won a Nobel so is hardly a frothy writer.

Yes, I thought of Lady Catherine de Bough (sp.?) too!

I had the horrible feeling that Olivia could slide back into an affair after the final scene, but that this time she'll be more cynical, less wholehearted, more like Rollo in fact. In that sense, this feels like a loss of innocence/first love story (even though she's been married).

I thought Rollo did love her, in his own way. Ironically, he feels closest to her in Austria ... just before he's called back, and she realises she's pregnant.

All the same, the sense of his privilege(s) and her outsider status is clear.

This must have been shocking at the time for its openness. I'm so glad we re/read it.

I also feel it's an unfair criticism, although I can see why on the surface some would see it as superficial. It was the way Lehmann dealt with the topic that really engaged me. As Val says, she doesn't glamourise the affair or excuse their behaviour.

I do agree that 'time on their hands' is a relevant observation. I was always amused by Olivia's view of herself as desperately poor, while she dabbled at her 'job' with Anna and went to the cinema every day. However, this didn't invalidate her problems, it's just another aspect of the frailties of being human.

I'm not sure if Olivia will continue the affair, she has lost her illusions now, so she won't see Rollo in the same way, but maybe he will wear her down.

I suppose poverty is relative, isn't it? Olivia always thought of herself as poor compared to those in the Big House, and she was aware of the difference in class. As you say though, Pamela, having a woman come in every day to clean, living (rent free?) in her cousins house and going out to eat, to the cinema, etc. on a virtual daily basis, is hardly poor...

I think she is paying to live in her cousin's house, because at one stage she is referred to as a "p.g.", i.e. paying guest - but probably not paying very much.

I thought the whole section about her pregnancy and abortion were particularly powerful - the way it seems as if her life is on hold and almost as if she is in a dream/nightmare, while she waits to hear from Rollo, and in the end not hearing is an answer in itself.

Elizabeth Day says in her afterword that the abortion caused an outcry at time of publication and quotes Lehmann saying: "To me, it seemed unthinkable not to write the scene since it was part of the truth of the story."

She probably paid a token rent then - I must have missed that, Judy.

I am sure that the abortion scene was extremely shocking at the time. Still would be in some parts of the world. However, the reality is that women get pregnant and Olivia had to deal with the consequences. Having the baby would have been unthinkable and, as she suspected, when Rollo learnt of the baby, he would not have wanted her to go through with the pregnancy.