Georgette Heyer Fans discussion

How are you finding this book so far?

I'm now up to the start of this section.

I'm feeling a bit sorry for Serena on this read. She is so short on stimulating company.

Yes; and just finished the scene where (view spoiler)[Hector and Fanny confess their love; I’d forgotten it, but seemed fairly obvious- Fanny clearly wants and needs a strong male protector, and Hector is clearly overawed by Serena (hide spoiler)]. I don’t recall how all of this will be resolved, I’ll be interested to see!

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "I'm now up to the start of this section.

I'm feeling a bit sorry for Serena on this read. She is so short on stimulating company."

I had forgotten all the fascinating political and social gossip - Serena may be a country girl, happiest riding to hounds and busily striding about the estate, managing things, but she’s also clearly cut out to be a political hostess, right in the heart of the action and current on all the latest on-dits!

The political gossip especially interested me because I just finished reading Georgiana: Duchess of Devonshire--many of the same political figures, though Georgiana was on the Whig side that Serena so despises (and Georgiana died before the time frame of this novel).

Abigail wrote: "The political gossip especially interested me because I just finished reading Georgiana: Duchess of Devonshire--many of the same political figures, though Georgiana was on the Whig si..."

That’s right, I forgot!

LOL, I managed to read this entire book almost in one gulp, starting late-ish one day, and finishing it the next! I didn't even stop to eat, but read on, book in one hand, fork in the other (the glories of living alone but for a cat, who could care less so long as she gets her due attention). Perhaps my favorite scene in the entire book is when (view spoiler)[ Gerard actually borrows money from Rotherham to elope with Emily! (hide spoiler)] That takes more than just a little chutzpa!

I've just finished the chapter where Hector and Fanny discover themselves. I have been reading avidly- I had forgotten how much I love this particular book.

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "I'm now up to the start of this section.

I'm feeling a bit sorry for Serena on this read. She is so short on stimulating company."

Don't forget Mrs. Flood, LOL!

I had forgotten a huge amount, too, Susan! I had a vague remembrance of Serena and Ivo as being obnoxiously arrogant, and that's about it. But on this reading, I am very impressed with Serena's kindness and her determination to keep her temper even when others are driving her to lose it. (I share with her the extreme dislike of overt sympathy.) All in all, either I am more discerning than when I last read this or I've mellowed!

I think readers come to Georgette Heyer's work with a certain set of expectations for emotional reward, and when the book doesn't deliver what we're expecting we tend to dislike it. That was certainly my experience with this book the first few times I read it! On the other hand, it inspired the plot of one of the Regency romances I never wrote, so even in my youth it had something that struck a spark. (Significantly, my knockoff had a more sympathetic hero!) I'm happy I read it again at an age when I could appreciate more of what it does have to offer.

I'm wondering if I haven't liked Serena before because I've, without thought, identified too closely with her (except for being tall and beautiful). She has many faults I share - and aren't they the ones we tend to see in others as glaringly obvious?

Yes indeed, Karlyne, that's why I'm always so unforgiving of Emma Woodhouse's faults! She's too much like the younger me.

Abigail wrote: "Yes indeed, Karlyne, that's why I'm always so unforgiving of Emma Woodhouse's faults! She's too much like the younger me."

Hahaha! Yes! That's why I'm so appreciative of Anne Eliot; I have none of her good qualities and that makes her my hero!

LOL neither do I . . .

When I read Emma, I positively cringe at her witticism at Miss Bate's expense. Anything to be clever, Emma? Oh, dear, do I understand...

Karlyne wrote: "I'm wondering if I haven't liked Serena before because I've, without thought, identified too closely with her (except for being tall and beautiful). She has many faults I share - and aren't they th..."

LOL, I always liked her, because she was so like me (except for being tall and beautiful)! My father, who may have had a touch of the Regency period in him, used to say, "Bek's a good girl, but she has an odd kick to her gallop."

Just started Chapter 18, and here is where Heyer really shines. She's able to portray both Rotherham and Gerard honestly and without sparing either of them, so that we can see what is behind their behaviors. The average writer would portray Ivo as rather better than he was, because he's the "hero", and Gerald as worse, because he's the baby brat. But somehow Heyer makes us understand them both and even make allowances for both. Genius.

Karlyne wrote: "Just started Chapter 18, and here is where Heyer really shines. She's able to portray both Rotherham and Gerard honestly and without sparing either of them, so that we can see what is behind their ..."

One of the things I like best about Heyer is that she doesn't write one dimensional characters. Heros and heroines have warts, and villains have something sympathetic in their makeup, as do all real people.

Karlyne wrote: "I'm wondering if I haven't liked Serena before because I've, without thought, identified too closely with her (except for being tall and beautiful). She has many faults I share - and aren't they th..."

I wonder if this is why I have always liked Serena? I do not share her faults at all!

and I very much agree with both Rebecca and Karlyne, the characters here are very much three dimensional unlike so much of fiction.

I also think the scene between Ivo and Gerard give us a very good look at them and how they bring out the worst in each other. it is genius, no doubt.

Poor Gerard! I understand that he's young, but I wonder just what it will take to make him see himself as he really is? Dramatizing and puffing himself up to increase his consequence in his own mind is a recipe for disaster. Even if Ivo and Serena weren't involved, certainly stronger personalities than his would come along and stomp on his head! At least, I hope so, because otherwise he's going to end up a pettish, fussy old man.

Alas, I fear that Gerard is doomed. Unless and until something drastic happens, he's going to continue on as he always has. The time for trying to mold him is long past, and his personality was never, I think, a strong, robust one. I know adults just like him, and it was always apparent very early that they were becoming rather disagreeable people. Once you're out of childhood, it takes a truly life-changing experience to alter the fabric of your personality. Oh, you can decide that you're going to be different, but without that Road to Damascus slap in the face, almost always one reverts in times of stress.

Rebecca wrote: "Alas, I fear that Gerard is doomed. Unless and until something drastic happens, he's going to continue on as he always has. The time for trying to mold him is long past, and his personality was nev..."

It takes a strong, honest person to look himself squarely in the face, and Gerard is not. I like that Heyer gives us a glimpse into his childhood and his brother's personality so that we can see that Gerard has been pretty much dishonest his whole life. You're right, Rebecca, that childhood sets us in our ways, and it takes power to change us. Lots of power!

Rebecca wrote: "My father, who may have had a touch of the Regency period in him, used to say, "Bek's a good girl, but she has an odd kick to her gallop..""

You make me laugh, because one of the things I adore about Heyer is what an unabashed horse enthusiast she is, and this is one of her books where the heroine is also an unabashed horse enthusiast. I ride to hounds myself, so I admire Serena's intrepidity in the saddle *immensely*, and I found myself thinking of this *exact same phrase* when I rode a horse late last year that I was thinking of adopting - and one of the things that decided me against her was, in fact, "an odd kick to her gallop"! LOL!

Elliot wrote: "Rebecca wrote: "My father, who may have had a touch of the Regency period in him, used to say, "Bek's a good girl, but she has an odd kick to her gallop..""

You make me laugh, because one of the t..."

My dad was quite a horseman, although of a very different cut. He spent his very early years on a ranch in Texas, riding stock, and later was in the last class of Army officers who were trained as mounted Cavalry officers. He had a wonderful way with horses...and anything else with fur, for that matter!

I love the smell of horses...

Karlyne wrote: "I love the smell of horses..."

Oh, me, too! And if you love a Georgette Heyer gal who loves horses, be sure to read "The Grand Sophy."

Oh, I have!😊

Though I read this book a couple of years ago, I don't remember that much about it, very little about Gerard for example. But I'm afraid Serena just isn't my type. In spite of her temper, she seems cold to me. I can't imagine her being passionately in love with anyone. Having said that, I appreciate that she has certain principles that she lives by--evident in her behavior towards Mrs Floore. Another incident I like is her scolding of Rotherham for singling out Emily at a dance and ignoring everyone else. I like the fact that he listens to her, too. So it's not all misery. ;)

I am enjoying re-reading this very much. I am using it as a counterweight to The Tattooist of Auschwitz, I read BT before I fall asleep.

I also read Bath Tangle before going to bed and, now that I think of it, I do that with Heyer in general.
last night starting with chapter 18 when Gerard arrives in Bath "in a Thrasonical mood", I was surprised to run into words that I don't know and - despite many rereads- have never looked up. "condign" retribution, is another example. and Fanny looking "riddee" I guess is French for wrinkled? (or "ridden hard and put away wet"?!)

It is indeed French for"wrinkled"!

I'm in the minority in loving all Heyer's flights of vocabulary.

Abigail wrote: "It is indeed French for"wrinkled"!

I'm in the minority in loving all Heyer's flights of vocabulary."

I'm right there with you!

Jackie wrote: "Abigail wrote: "It is indeed French for"wrinkled"!

I'm in the minority in loving all Heyer's flights of vocabulary."

I'm right there with you!"

Is it a minority? At least for my generation, it was one of the things that attracted us to writing - that it wasn't Janet & John simple.

Rosina wrote: "Jackie wrote: "Abigail wrote: "It is indeed French for"wrinkled"!

I'm in the minority in loving all Heyer's flights of vocabulary."

I'm right there with you!"

Is it a minority? At least for my g..."

“Janet & John Simple” - I love that, never heard it before!

I don’t know if it’s actually a minority, but I do see a lot of complaints about too much Regency slang in these chats.

Abigail wrote: "I don’t know if it’s actually a minority, but I do see a lot of complaints about too much Regency slang in these chats."

I see it, too, Abigail, and I always think, "but that's how my vocabulary has grown so amazingly large"... (can't find the tongue-in-cheek emoji on the laptop)

Abigail wrote: "It is indeed French for"wrinkled"!

I'm in the minority in loving all Heyer's flights of vocabulary."

Oh, I do, too! And I've found over the years that some of her words and phrases have found their way into my everyday speech. LOL, I wonder what my friends and acquaintances make of that?

I finally finished it and I loved the last few chapters, first the thrill of the chase and then all the drama that came at the end, where dialog like "No, you fool!" and "of all the impudence!" and "don't you dare" are not out of place. There is just enough humor and then, inevitably, the Happily Ever After for everyone. (well, maybe not
Gerard.)

Jackie wrote: "I finally finished it and I loved the last few chapters, first the thrill of the chase and then all the drama that came at the end, where dialog like "No, you fool!" and "of all the impudence!" and..."

We shall hope that poor Gerard meets a beautiful, vapid and rather stupid young woman who takes him at his own valuation, and says "Yes, Dear" to every utterance. Rotherham will see to it that they don't starve in a ditch somewhere, and they will both be ecstatically happy for ever after!

sounds good, and let's not forget he has his poetry! maybe he will self publish and it will "take"!

One can hope! A little success might do him a world of good...or totally ruin him! That's a coin toss.

Jackie wrote: "sounds good, and let's not forget he has his poetry! maybe he will self publish and it will "take"!"

Oh, my gosh, there are so many parallels with this book and "The Grand Sophy", but one that had completely passed me by was that poor Gerard is Augustus Fawnhope, with less beauty and far more conceit! I bet he's a *terrible* poet, worse than young Augustus!

LOL, at least we don't have to actually LISTEN to Gerard murmuring his execrable verse in our ears! I had actually missed that, as well, and after reading the book no less than 20 times over the years! Somethings I just didn't, apparently, want to know!

Rebecca wrote: "LOL, at least we don't have to actually LISTEN to Gerard murmuring his execrable verse in our ears! I had actually missed that, as well, and after reading the book no less than 20 times over the ye..."

LOL, true!