Victorians! discussion

Ten weeks already, and we have reached the end of our story. If we had thought all the surprises we were to get are already before us, we were wrong for Dickens had another in store for us.

Last week we ‘knew’ that the Boffins were in the secret and knew that Rokesmith was Harmon, and this week we learnt just how. It was dear Mrs Boffin that discovered John’s secret, secrets in fact, that he was ‘her’ John and that he had been disappointed in his suit, and this was what led Mr B to take the course that he did to teach Bella a lesson about what money can do to a person. So all the meanness in fact was an act. As were the misers, but that had another target as well Silas Wegg, as Rokesmith was suspicious of his intentions from the start. All the hidden wills in bottles were not to deprive John of the estate but to ensure that he got it as the will he did left everything to him, excluding John completely. Bella seems to take all these revelations very well. What did you think? Did you expect a stronger reaction?

Meanwhile Wegg too is taken care of or rather ousted as Harmon and Mr Boffin reveal the truth to him and Mr Venus too tells all. Wegg is out alright but did we think he needed a stronger punishment? He still seemed to have the cheek to make claims based on his imaginary connections. Mr Venus however, seems to have gotten his ‘happy ending’ as Pleasant Riderhood it seems has finally accepted his suit with Mr Boffin and Rokesmith/Harmon’s intervention. A happy ending is also in sight for the Doll’s dressmaker, as she meets Sloppy, and there is certainly an indication that there will be something happy ahead for these two, perhaps he is the one she’s been waiting for.

But we have two villains still in our hands, the worst one Bradley Headstone among them. It is interesting how here, just when the end is near he begins to show some signs of being affected by his crime. So far he seemed so cold and calculating, possessed but never being bothered by what he had done. And he is upset by the fact that no complaint will be made against him, and that Eugene and Lizzie are married, and Eugene is doing better even if not well again. But Riderhood has plans in store for him, first of course blackmailing him (different from what Bradley did) and then as Bradley did with Eugene, shadowing him every step of the way but with the difference that he is in full view of Headstone. Being hounded is not what he can stand and so Bradley gives up his life taking his tormentor with him—a fitting end for those two, or simply an easy way out, one wonders?

Once more, at the end we are back in the midst of ‘society’ with old acquaintances who are carrying on as usual with dinners at the Veneerings. But here we learn that things will not be the same for all of them as the Veneerings are on the verge of losing most of what they had and will be as quickly dropped by society as they had been in dropping the Lammles. ‘Society’ is just as eager to make cruel fun of Lizzie (not surprisingly), but not just Lightwood but the good-hearted Mr Twemlow speaks in her defence. He too has had some good news as the debt has been taken over by Harmon, and he has some respite from the odious Fledgeby.

And so we take leave of this story and its characters. What did everyone think of it? Money was central of course, but there were so many other themes, and so much going on—the murder ‘mystery’, quite a few romances, social commentary, especially about the poor law (money coming in again here), family relationships (the difficult ones with Eugene and his father or the Dolls Dressmaker and her father, then Pleasant and her father or even difficult sibling relationships like Lizzie and the awful Charlie or Bella and Lavinia—there were better ones too like Lizzie and her father or Rumty and Bella). So what did you think of it overall? What were your favourite aspects of the book? What didn’t you like? Did some part of the end leave you unsatisfied? (for me it was Charlie not having got a spanking)! Who were your favourite characters? And who didn’t you like?

Hope everyone enjoyed reading the book as much as I did!

So the Boffin's change of character was an "act" after all! I'm truly glad, for I liked his character initially. Now he is restored back in my good books.

Given Bella's nature, I thought her reaction would have been a little more expressive than the mere passive surprise. But then again, Bella has grown quite a lady with John's loving influence. This may explain the dignified manner in which she received all the information.

Piyangie wrote: "So the Boffin's change of character was an "act" after all! I'm truly glad, for I liked his character initially. Now he is restored back in my good books."

:) He had to teach more than one person a lesson.

Piyangie wrote: "Given Bella's nature, I thought her reaction would have been a little more expressive than the mere passive surprise. But then again, Bella has grown quite a lady with John's loving influence. This..."

True about her being more dignified. But one can't help thinking, that after all, what the Boffins and John did (even if it was to help her bring out her better nature) was literally play with her. Bella may have become a better person but she also seems different from herself since she wasn't one who didn't express her opinions.

A real fitting end to Bradley Headstone and Riderhood. But I felt Wegg didn't receive enough punishment. :)

I'm very much glad that Eugene lived and doing better. And he is definitely turning his life around for the benefit of Lizzie. That is really nice of him.

Lady Clementina wrote: "Once more, at the end we are back in the midst of ‘society’ with old acquaintances who are carrying on as usual with dinners at the Veneerings. But here we learn that things will not be the same for all of them as the Veneerings are on the verge of losing most of what they had and will be as quickly dropped by society as they had been in dropping the Lammles. ‘Society’ is just as eager to make cruel fun of Lizzie (not surprisingly), but not just Lightwood but the good-hearted Mr Twemlow speaks in her defence...."

I enjoyed Dickens's throw in of society view on Eugene's marriage through one whole chapter. While many of the upper class condemned the union and riduculed them, it was nice to see that Lightwood and Twemlow sincerely defend them. In a previous chapter Eugene explains to Lightwood how his family has accepted his marriage to Lizzy. These all contribute to a prediction that in future the class division will be more relaxed.

Lady Clementina wrote: "Hope everyone enjoyed reading the book as much as I did!.."

This is my most loved Dickens, Mallika. I enjoyed it very very much. I loved the story and most of the characters. And above all, I loved Dickens writing here. It was beautiful. And I felt it less satirical (comparatively with his other earlier work) and more passionate.

Piyangie wrote: "A real fitting end to Bradley Headstone and Riderhood. But I felt Wegg didn't receive enough punishment. :)

I'm very much glad that Eugene lived and doing better. And he is definitely turning his ..."

Same here. I think Wegg deserved worse - and Charlie Hexam deserved too.

Piyangie wrote: "Lady Clementina wrote: "Once more, at the end we are back in the midst of ‘society’ with old acquaintances who are carrying on as usual with dinners at the Veneerings. But here we learn that things..."

Twemlow was essentially good hearted, we saw that with his helping Georgiana Podsnap earlier too. And it was good to see him voice his opinion and silence the others.

Piyangie wrote: "Lady Clementina wrote: "Hope everyone enjoyed reading the book as much as I did!.."

This is my most loved Dickens, Mallika. I enjoyed it very very much. I loved the story and most of the character..."

Good to hear that. I love this book as well.

Lady Clementina wrote: "Piyangie wrote: "Given Bella's nature, I thought her reaction would have been a little more expressive than the mere passive surprise. But then again, Bella has grown quite a lady with John's lovin..."

Yes, I agree, she seemed strangely passive. I enjoyed Bella's bit of feistiness, but as soon as she got married (apart from getting frustrated with the Housekeeping Manual, which was funny) she seemed to transform into the stereotypical Victorian angel in the home.

Lady Clementina wrote: "Piyangie wrote: "So the Boffin's change of character was an "act" after all! I'm truly glad, for I liked his character initially. Now he is restored back in my good books."

:) He had to teach more..."

I was glad Boffin was only playing a part, after all. I thought his change into a miser was a bit sudden; I initially thought Dickens hadn't handled it right, but silly me – Dickens knew exactly what he was doing. Seeing Wegg get his comeuppance was very satisfying!

I never would have guessed the pairing of Sloppy and Jenny!

I had a postscript by Dickens at the end of my kindle version, I don't know if all the versions have it. Dickens says that the novel was printed in 19 monthly parts, so we did well to read it in 10 weeks, original readers took a year and a half! I suppose we've been binge-reading by contrast.

I liked that Dickens describes himself as a 'story-weaver at his loom'. Weaving all the threads of the story together; he certainly had a lot of them going at once, and tied them up nicely at the end, although, as Lady C mentions, we didn't see Charlie Hexam's story wound up. I also wondered about Miss Peecher's reaction to the death of Bradley.

Nina wrote: "I never would have guessed the pairing of Sloppy and Jenny!

I had a postscript by Dickens at the end of my kindle version, I don't know if all the versions have it. Dickens says that the novel was..."
Yes- it was in nineteen parts-the last being a double. It would have been exciting reading it as it was first coming out.

Miss Peecher would probably have been broken. I wish Charlie had got his just desserts as well selfish little creature that he was,

Jenny and Sloppy was something I'd completely forgotten considering I've read this a couple of times already but I was happy for them both.

Lady Clementina wrote: "Nina wrote: "I never would have guessed the pairing of Sloppy and Jenny!

I had a postscript by Dickens at the end of my kindle version, I don't know if all the versions have it. Dickens says that ..."

Thanks for moderating the discussion, it was a lengthy novel to summarise each week, and I really enjoyed it.

Nina wrote: "Lady Clementina wrote: "Nina wrote: "I never would have guessed the pairing of Sloppy and Jenny!

I had a postscript by Dickens at the end of my kindle version, I don't know if all the versions hav..."

Thank you :) Glad to hear that you enjoyed it!

I too like to thank, Mallika for doing an excellent job of leading the discussion. Her informative and analytical commentary on each thread helped to navigate the discussion very well. Thank you very much for taking your time and effort to do such a great job.

Piyangie wrote: "I too like to thank, Mallika for doing an excellent job of leading the discussion. Her informative and analytical commentary on each thread helped to navigate the discussion very well. Thank you ve..."

Thanks so much Piyangie.

Lucia wrote: "I too would like to thank you, Lady Clementina, for having led the discussion in such a brilliant way. I started the book later than the group and am not done with it yet. I am finding your comment..."

Thanks Lucia. Do add your comments in any of the segments whenever you are done.

Being a weekly serial as most of his books were I think also affects the way the story is plotted--may be that's why also the impression of a puppeteer

Hello everyone,

Sorry for the long silence, I have been unwell and not able to do much. I have now finished reading Our Mutual Friend, which I enjoyed very much, and I have read and enjoyed all your comments too. Thank you everyone! I hope to catch up with you all and start reading "Shirley" soon.

Glad you’re feeling better Fern!

Brittany (Lady Red) wrote: "Glad you’re feeling better Fern!"

Thank you!

Fern wrote: "Hello everyone,

Sorry for the long silence, I have been unwell and not able to do much. I have now finished reading Our Mutual Friend, which I enjoyed very much, and I have read and enjoyed all yo..."

That's perfectly alright. Hope you are feeling better now. Glad you enjoyed the book.

I feel terribly sorry for Bradley Headstone, it is terrible to see his deterioration, from a man who has risen in the world and has a career and everything, undone by thwarted love. I want him to get over Lizzie and marry that nice schoolteacher who loves him, his ending is awful. The Dolls Dressmaker is my favourite character, she's a caution.

Louise wrote: "I feel terribly sorry for Bradley Headstone, it is terrible to see his deterioration, from a man who has risen in the world and has a career and everything, undone by thwarted love. I want him to g..."

That's a different viewpoint, but I can see why one could possibly fee sorry for him. He had a promising career and life ahead of him, but thwarted love alone needn't have ruined it for him--it turned into an obsession rather than mere heartbreak, and that's where he lost my sympathy--of course, he didn't have much of it at the start either as Dickens' villains always manage to be a little creepy or even slimy from the start.