Reading the 20th Century discussion

Welcome to The Midnight Bell….


….a general discussion thread in which you can talk about anything and everything.

It also masquerades as a classic British pub.

Get your first pretend pint free - other pretend beverages are also available.

Come one, come all, gather round and, of course, be of good cheer.

Our old thread was getting a little long and was at risk of getting corrupted so here is a new one for idle chit chat and bon mots.

What are you having?

'They're closing down the old pub' (BOO)
'but they're building a new one.' ('RAY)

'It only has one bar' (BOO)
'half a mile long.' ('RAY)

'It won't sell any beer;' (BOO)
'they're giving it away.' ('RAY)

and so on.

Ah same pub and same name and the same regulars....feels like home already!
Of all the pubs and bars you have been in which has the more unusual name or theme?

Michael wrote: "Ah same pub and same name and the same regulars....feels like home already!
Of all the pubs and bars you have been in which has the more unusual name or theme?"

One of my regular haunts in Nottingham is "The VAT and Fiddle", which was named shortly after the Inland Revenue moved into a new building nearby...

I've had a 'Lemmy Burger' in a pub in Nottingham, I recall there is a connection too.

This one: https://www.stpetersfinger.co.uk/

I think it is supposed to be Saint Peter Invicula (in chains).

The Kebab and Calculator was a pub in an episode of The Young Ones. Alas, I cannot think of any outlandish names I have personally visited. My local is The Watchmakers Arms. Tonight I will be visiting The Foghorn.

A pub in Cornwall whilst on holiday last year was called The Blood Tub. Free to get in, but getting out...

Sounds right up there with The Slaughter Lamb....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHIty...

https://londonist.com/london/drink/lo...

There's the Hung, Drawn and Quartered, near Tower Hill, but that isn't on the above list.

Was the Elephant and Castle the name of a pub before the name was given to the whole area?

Shepherd's Bush was from the tradition that the brewer would hang a freshly cut bush outside a brew-house to say the beer was ready. Potential customers could look at the state of the bush to see how old the beer was.

I believe so Val - there was a coaching inn called the E&C that the area is named after

Slightly different...Liverpool’s home ground...Ann Field...who was she?

In fact Higsons brewery in the 1990’s (I think) did a series of caricatures for places around Liverpool on pub beer mats. Eg, French guy - Pier(re) Head. Quite imaginative some of them - don’t even get given a beer mat in most pubs these Days!

No beer mats Ian? That's outrageous. Round my way you can't move for beer mats. Still the prices they charge that's the least they can provide. Don't see so many ashtrays these days though.

Nigeyb wrote: "Don't see so many ashtrays these days though. "

I think most bars in my town are non-smoking.

I always read that Elephant and Castle came from people unable to pronounce Eleanor of Castile, but according to this website, that is incorrect.

http://www.shadyoldlady.com/location....

A few I've been in with unusual names or have history, 'The Wapentake' in Sheffield, 'The Prospect of Whitby' in Wapping, 'The Peveril of the Peak' in Manchester.
In Wigan there is an address 'King of Prussia Yard', named after the old pub the 'King of Prussia', unsurprisingly.
The Circus Tavern in Manchester has an incredibly small bar, The Fab Cafe is a TV and Film themed bar, it's been a while since I was last in, I recall a Darlek, unsure if there was a Stormtrooper or Wookie too, my recollection is a little fuzzy, it was some time ago. In the glass display cabinets were the memorabilia, 1999 Eagles, plus lots more Gerry Anderson themed objects, lots of film posters etc. And retro video games machines. No idea what it is like now.
There are a few subterranean pubs but in the main are unremarkable.

Talking of subterranean pubs, The Old Trip to Jerusalem, dug into the rock underlying Nottingham Castle, is worth a visit.

Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Nigeyb wrote: "Don't see so many ashtrays these days though. "

I think most bars in my town are non-smoking."

They are all non-smoking indoors here, but most have an outdoor smoking area with some shelter from the weather. (Most of the pubs who could not set up an outdoor area have closed.) The 'nickable' ashtrays seem to have gone soon after they were moved outside.

I think there is only one establishment here with an outdoor area. I don't know if people smoke there or not. It is illegal to smoke within 50 feet of a doorway to a public place, but maybe they do it anyway. To be honest, I haven't been in a bar in many years.

In Austria they still smoke in bars and alike, it is quite noticeable now we are smoke free in pubs in the UK.

Michael wrote: "In Austria they still smoke in bars and alike, it is quite noticeable now we are smoke free in pubs in the UK."

It used to be that establishments could decide for themselves. Many had smoking and non-smoking areas. But a couple of years ago the state passed a law that you couldn't smoke in any public building. The reasoning was to protect the employees. The law extends to cabs and is why I said above that you can't smoke within 50 feet of the entrances to buildings.

There is a pub called The Murderers in Norwich, though it is also called The Gardener's Arms - I believe it has two signs!

There are also two pubs in Suffolk called The Case Is Altered and apparently several others round the country - there seem to be various theories as to the source of this.

There was a restaurant in Chicago named Elephant & Castle - had a British/Irish bent to it. St. Patrick's day the Shannon Rovers (police pipe band - they were in the movie The Fugitive and possibly in Ferris Bueller) would come through playing. It gets kind of loud in a relatively narrow place.

I think all indoor places here are smoke-free and I also think the sidewalk annexes are also smoke-free. I'm not sure about the 50- ft rule but that may be since I quit smoking. We used to be able to just go out the door at the office and light up on the sidewalk. But it may have changed since then.

In Illinois I believe it is 15 ft. From the doorway.

Next week I'll start up the nominations thread for our group read in September 2019 (I know, I know..)

I know some of you appreciate a bit of advance notice so you can start cogitating on your nominations. So, this is what is in the offing....

With the imminent 50th anniversary of the start of WW2 approaching, and when, on 1 September 1939, Germany invaded Poland, you will be invited to nominate books about either the Munich Agreement (September 1938) or the so-called Phoney War (the eight-month period at the start of WW2). We'd also be happy to receive more general nominations which have some focus on the lead up to WW2 or the early stages of the war.

A few novels spring straight to my mind...


Coming Up for Air (1939) by George Orwell - set in June 1939 just before the outbreak of war

Put Out More Flags (1942) by Evelyn Waugh - the dormant conflict of the Phoney War is reflected in the activity of the novel's main characters

Hangover Square (1941) by Patrick Hamilton - set against the backdrop of the days preceding Britain declaring war on Germany


What about you?

Not quite the period you had in mind, but I have recently read The Order of the Day by Éric Vuillard, mainly about the Anschluss Österreichs (annexation of Austria), which could be considered the first aggression of the war. It is a novel, but based on fact.

I think that falls under the broader "lead up to the war" category Val so, if you feel it woud be good book to read and discuss, then please go ahead and nominate it when the time comes.

It looks like an interesting read....

Winner of the 2017 Prix Goncourt Eric Vuillard's gripping novel The Order of the Day tells the story of the pivotal meetings which took place between the European powers in the run-up to World War Two. What emerges is a fascinating and incredibly moving account of failed diplomacy, broken relationships, and the catastrophic momentum which led to conflict.

I started reading the final installment of Elizabeth Jane Howard's Cazalet Chronicles, and I find "Sardines" being a game that is played. I have never heard of this. Maybe it goes by a different name in the US, or maybe it's something completely foreign to us.

Can my Brit friends tell me what Sardines is?

Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "I started reading the final installment of Elizabeth Jane Howard's Cazalet Chronicles, and I find "Sardines" being a game that is played. I have never heard of this. Maybe it goes by a different na..."

It's a children's game like hide and seek, but when you find the person who is hidden, you hide with them - then the next person to find them hides as well, so eventually there are several people hiding and depending on where you are it can be a bit of a squash, like being in a tin of sardines. I think this game has probably gone out of fashion nowadays.

Judy wrote: "It's a children's game like hide and seek, but when you find the person who is hidden, you hide with them"

Thank you. Interesting because in the US hide and seek has one person who is "it" and everyone else hides. Sort of opposite to that, but an apt name.

I haven't played it for fifty years, but if I remember it correctly:

One person hides
The first person to find them joins them in the hiding place
Each next person to find them also joins them
The game is over when the last person finds them
The last person becomes the first person to hide in the next game

I should add that you can't really play it a modern, well designed house with few hiding places.

Val wrote: "I should add that you can't really play it a modern, well designed house with few hiding places."

We always played hide and seek outdoors, with defined boundaries.

Yes, we played that more often, but sardines was fun when it was raining, until you learnt all the possible hiding places in your friends' houses.

OK. I grew up in California where it hardly ever rained and we played outdoors every day.

Are you trying to make me feel jealous?

Val wrote: "Are you trying to make me feel jealous?"

Ha! Not at all. The school playgrounds here are covered, so that kids can go outside during school hours. There are few places on earth where it rains more, or more days, than here. I don't know if they know about Sardines to play when they go home or to friends.

Whenever I have read about Sardines, it is usually in a 1930's novel and set in some huge ancestral house. It would, undoubtedly be fun if you had an enormous house and the boot room, or something, to hide in. Not so much fun in the tiny flat where I was brought up though - and not so many cupboards!

I played Sardines as a kid back in the 50s--in the US.

Sardines is great fun 😍

Yep, I regularly felt like a sardine when standing with the other 25,000 fans in the Kop End at Anfield - absolutely jammed packed and most of the time when the crowd surged your feet didn’t even touch the floor. Dangerous - but great fun and a brilliant atmosphere!

Susan wrote: "and not so many cupboards"

This is another term that is different. I'm pretty sure this is what we call a closet. In the US, cupboards are the small cabinets in the kitchen/bathroom, etc.

I'm thinking I wish we'd known about this game the year we had a family reunion at my grandparents house in Kansas City. Large bedroom closets - even a walk-in linen closet - on 2 floors and a basement. There was also an attic, but we weren't allowed to go up there because it had not been cleaned in years. Anyway, it was the year I was almost 5, and there were plenty of cousins to have made the game fun.

Nigeyb wrote: "and Netgalley have just approved me for is latest offering..."

So. A 15-watt utility bulb just went off in my head. I finally get why so many of you are reading so many newly published works.

Are you a NetGalley member, Elizabeth? I must admit I am a NetGalley addict and find them a great resource.

Susan wrote: "Are you a NetGalley member, Elizabeth? I must admit I am a NetGalley addict and find them a great resource."

I signed up once, but of course they only offer new releases. I don't read many new releases. Sort of why I like a 20th Century group! ;-)

Well, there are new books about that time period, but I get your point, Elizabeth :)