The Sword and Laser discussion

I adore first contact stories. There are so many different ways to tell that story. Is humanity the initiator or do they receive guests? If they initiate, is human culture with spaceflight meaningfully different then human culture as it is now? Do the two groups have a common language, or do they have to painstakingly learn each others' languages? One group is usually much more powerful than the other, but not always. If humanity is just reaching the stars, is there a Federation for them to join or whose rules they must follow, or an almost-empty universe? Do you see one side of the exchange, or both sides, complete with the delicious dramatic irony that happens when the reader is aware of the misinterpretations of the characters.

Please share and discuss your favorite first contact stories!

Some of the ones I've read recently are Damocles which I like for the language-learning. Dawn, of course, which I find interesting for its fascinating power imbalances. Cards Of Grief comes with the idea that it is impossible for two cultures to interact without changing each other, at least somewhat. And The Sparrow, which explores, among other things, what happens when miscommunication turns to tragedy.

The Mote in God's Eye was always one of my favorites.

Joanna, may I be so bold to suggest my own first contact novel, Traveling in Space. It's completely told from the point of view of the aliens, making it sort of a 21th Century Gulliver's Travels, with Homo Sapiens as the Lilliputians. You can see a Sword & Laser interview with me and Jeff Cannata, who recorded the audiobook edition here: http://tinyurl.com/jeff-steve

The Amazon page for the book is here: http://tinyurl.com/TISamazon

Joseph wrote: "The Mote in God's Eye was always one of my favorites."

I tried to read that one and unfortunately bounced off the outdated attitudes about women. Which is a shame because I heard the portrayal of aliens was very well done. I should give it another go.

Joanna wrote: "Joseph wrote: "The Mote in God's Eye was always one of my favorites."

I tried to read that one and unfortunately bounced off the outdated attitudes about women. Which is a shame bec..."

Yeah, I first encountered it back in high school, in the 1980s, so those things didn't bug me like they probably should have.

But yes, if you can treat it like a sometimes unfortunate historical artifact, there are things it did very well.

Steven wrote: "Joanna, may I be so bold to suggest my own first contact novel, Traveling in Space. It's completely told from the point of view of the aliens, making it sort of a 21th Century Gulliver's Travels, w..."

I'm embarrassed to say that I bounced off that one too, because I wasn't expecting the satirical tone. I'm planning on getting the audiobook edition and experiencing it that way, but I haven't done so yet. The audiobook production sounds amazing.

I'm also tempted to list The Pride of Chanur by C.J. Cherryh -- the hani are already a spacefaring race in contact with several other races, but then they discover this naked, pink-skinned fugitive ...

Joanna wrote: "Steven wrote: "Joanna, may I be so bold to suggest my own first contact novel, Traveling in Space. It's completely told from the point of view of the aliens, making it sort of a 21th Century Gulliv..."

Yes, it certainly is satire, and not a hard SF book. I have found that some in the SF community just don't like the humor, while others adore it. It's a matter of taste. But do try the audiobook -- Jeff's performance is quite wonderful. And, given your comment re "Mote in God's Eyes" I think you will appreciate that the real hero of the book is a female, which I write about in this blog: http://stevenpaulleivasthisnthat.blog...

Blindsight is one I read a couple months ago and I still have it stuck in my head. Dark and heavy.

There is a collection of classic short stories, mostly from the 40's, based on the first contact theme called, oddly enough, First Contact edited by Damon Knight. It includes many of the better known authors such as Sturgeon, Asimov, Heinlein, and Wells but the stand out story for me was also called First Contact by Murray Leinster. It's worth picking up if you can find it in a used book store.

One of my favorite first contact stories is another C.J. Cherryh: Forty Thousand in Gehenna which is a companion to her hugo-winner Cyteen. (There are political ramifications from the events in the Gehenna book that affect the story of Cyteen).

A recent one which I thought was very good but doesn't seem to have hit it off is A Darkling Sea by James Cambias. First contact between humans and a civilization of deep-sea arthropod-like creatures on a Europa-like moon with some conflict from another space-faring civilization added in.

I'm a big fan of 'first contact' type science fiction stories. I'll definitely be watching this discussion for some ideas but here are some that I've read that fit into this category:

Pushing Ice by Alastair Reynolds
Spin by Robert Charles Wilson
Helix by Eric Brown
Ringworld by Larry Niven

Lots of good ones already named.

Nor Crystal Tears by Alan Dean Foster
Little Fuzzy by H. Beam Piper
Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Contact by Carl Sagan yet.

A first contact novel by some one who spent their life thinking about our place in the cosmos.

Lindsay wrote: "One of my favorite first contact stories is another C.J. Cherryh: Forty Thousand in Gehenna which is a companion to her hugo-winner Cyteen. (There are pol..."

Oooh! Excellent choice! One of my favorites of hers.

Johanna -- The Huffington Post just published by latest blog (written before you started this thread) -- No Book Is an Island: On the Dual Identity of Art -- relates well to our conversation re: satire and humor in First Contact novels.

http://tinyurl.com/nobookisland

Seconding Blindsight! I was highly impressed by that one.


And another really good one imho: A Deepness in the Sky by Vernor Vinge.

Joseph wrote: "I'm also tempted to list The Pride of Chanur by C.J. Cherryh -- the hani are already a spacefaring race in contact with several other races, but then they discover th..."

Oh yes indeed. "Pride" is one of my favorites. In fact the entire Compact Space series is quite good. I wish Cherryh would write more in that universe.

Update due to Joanna's request:
The Pride of Chanur is named after a starship that has an all-female crew of cat-like people called the Hani. The Pride's crew rescue a human male from some really nasty folk of another species. The Hani, well let's just say they aren't the type to back down, and the rescue starts a crisis in Compact Space. Nuf said I think.

Robobobo wrote: "And another really good one imho: A Deepness in the Sky by Vernor Vinge."

Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep also has a very good first contact thread.

All sorts of wonderful suggestions! Many of which I've read or have on my to-read list, actually, but a number I haven't, so thank you!

Please do try to give a brief spoiler-free description of something you liked from each book if possible, as some of you have done. I don't know about everyone else, but when a thread becomes just a list of titles with little other text, I start to get bored. I'm also interested in people's takes on the first-contact story in general. What's your favorite approach?

One thing I think is hard is trying to make aliens that are alien enough to be plausible, but humanlike enough for meaningful interactions and to be comprehensible by the reader. I prefer stories that balance this well, but where I can't get that, I will seek portrayals from both ends of the spectrum. The aliens from Damocles were fairly easy to get my head around after a little exposure. The ones from Blindsight, not so much.

Steven wrote: "Johanna -- The Huffington Post just published by latest blog (written before you started this thread) -- No Book Is an Island: On the Dual Identity of Art -- relates well to our conversation re: s..."

I have read an enjoyed The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. But I cut my scifi teeth on Star Trek: The Next Generation, mostly. I love the show, but, let's face it, they are extremely serious and earnest, despite the occasional funny moment. I tend to assume that first contact stories are going to be serious because the subject matter is so grand, at least in my view. I can handle it if I know it's coming, but in the case of Traveling In Space, I didn't. I regret to say that I had not heard of you before I picked up your book at Tom's recommendation. Somehow he failed to convey that it would be satire, so I interpreted it as flippancy of something I am realizing I kind of hold sacred. I dropped the book precisely after the moment when the President shoved his foot deeply into his mouth.

Like I said, now that I know to expect it and a little time to let my irrational emotional response dissipate, I think I will be able to enjoy it this time and I intend to pick it up probably in the next few months.

One thing that is still very new to me as an involved member of both Goodreads in general and the Sword and Laser group and show in particular is a level of access to authors that I've never experienced before. When I was a kid pulling books off the sad little scfi/fantasy shelf at the local public library, J.R.R. Tolkien the real person was the same level of inaccessible to me as the real person of a living writer like Mercedes Lackey. Each was equally unaffected by my personal opinion of their work. They produced works that enthralled me, so they may as well have been wizards as far as I was concerned.

And even when I started following Wil Wheaton and John Scalzi's blogs, they are both sufficiently high-profile that I don't feel I have sufficiently interesting things to say in their comments for them to pick my post out of the masses. It's still one-way communication.

But now I'm a part of Sword and Laser and between author questions pulled from the group and the fact that I've been reading a lot more self-published authors who actually read reviews here, there is a possibility of dialogue. Lois McMaster Bujold, my favorite living scifi writer, actually responded to my reply to one of her posts recently, prompting a fangirl response from me. It's unsettling to think that I could potentially insult authors now. If they are new and struggling, a negative review on my part might discourage or undermine them. It frightens me. I'm still not sure how to handle it and I hope that I haven't hurt your feelings in this, Steven.

Not at all, Johanna. As I tried to indicate in my Huffington Post piece, reactions to novels will always be based not only on the novel as intended by the writer, but the novel as interpreted by the reader. In each case our own, individual lives, tastes, and experiences shade what we intend (in the case of the writer) or perceive (in the case of the reader). As I am not exclusively an SF writer (two previous novels were satiric Hollywood thrillers; my next, "By the Sea" is a mainstream comic novel), "Traveling in Space" may come as a bit of an anomaly to SF fans. Indeed, I have taken the First Contact sub-genre as a base for, in a small way, satire and sly comment on the sub-genre itself, but in a larger, and more important way, as a investigation of humanity as it is today and humanity as it might be in the future. It came out in 2012 and the first readers were very much from the humanist community, as the book addresses their concerns. With the audiobook, which is performed by Jeff Cannata who has a fan base because his hosting duties on the internet on shows about SF and Fantasy and gaming, more SF readers are coming to the book. They will be looking for something different than my some of my previous readers. Some will be pleased, some will be disappointed. I am very happy if it's the former, and remain philosophical if it's the latter. So, no, you did not hurt my feelings. In fact, you allowed me to open communication with you and have this dialog. If someone loves my novel, all I can say, with delight, is "Thanks!" But if someone finds something wanting in my novel, or perhaps has a well-considered criticism -- ah, now we have something to talk about. I do hope you try "Traveling in Space" again in a few months time. I look forward to you response, be it positive or negative, I'm sure it will be honest and of value.

I'd agree with Lindsay, the best recent book in this genre for me was A Darkling Sea.

The main story was a really good description of first contact from an alien species POV, and how it changes their whole world-view.

Then on top of that (or behind the scenes) is a really good discussion of 'first contact' (between two other species - one is us humans), and the impact on other species, etc.

The Rama series really got my imagination going. I loved it. My only criticism is that all the books could maybe have been condensed down to two or three novels instead of, what were there, four or so.

Can't forget Contact if you're talking First Contact. I love that book, though I actually love the movie even more (that's a rare thing).

I did love the movie Contact, but preferred the book :-) the movie changed so much, especially the ending. Still, both cool versions of the story :-)

I think the most interesting take recently, for me, has been The Expanse series by James S. A. Corey consisting , so far, of Leviathan Wakes, Caliban's War, Abaddon's Gate and Cibola Burn. It begins seeming like a disease and goes off in directions that are constantly changing, with the added benefit of a pretty nicely done political system giving plenty of other tensions and interesting characters to follow. I have been amazed at how each entry has taken such huge steps, from what seemed like a basic detective story to a massive space opera. I can't wait to see where they go with Nemesis Games

I am intrigued by The Expanse, but also a little intimidated.

Joanna wrote: "I am intrigued by The Expanse, but also a little intimidated."
I really liked Leviathan Wakes and didn't find it too difficult. (I haven't read the others in the series yet). Looking at some of your favorite books, you've read and liked tons of books way more intimidating than it.

Alan wrote: "Joanna wrote: "I am intrigued by The Expanse, but also a little intimidated."
I really liked Leviathan Wakes and didn't find it too difficult. (I haven't read the others in the series yet). Lookin..."

I've started reading it. I'm having a little trouble keeping all the characters straight so far (and remembering who's supposed to be a Belter and who's an Earther or close enough). But he has that thing that I like in writing were he describes an everyday mannerism in a way that makes me go "Yeah, I've seen people do that. I know exactly what he's talking about." It's something I really liked in the short book The Man on Table Ten.