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Pretty much agree with Lance, maybe there`s a Mays or a Honus in addition to Ruth, Cobb & Ted. As for Sandy, he could be in the mix if we`re talking best lefty, but I think it would come from the 2 mentioned & maybe a Lefty Grove. As for best pitcher ever, I`ll start with Christy & Walter & maybe Greg Maddux & go from thereMike Linn
ALEX ? Never
Nap Lajoie not even considered? Tris Speaker not even considered?NL-As much as I love Sandy, is he really the greatest of all time as a lefty? I have to disagree. The rest are reasonable. I'd rather see Musial than Bonds but if we are taking steroids out of the equation, he probably is in the top 3
If you mention LAJOIE, HORNSBY was better. And while Tris was fantastic, Cobb was better. No PED guys! Musial really couldn`t crack the Ruth , Cobb. Williams trio IMOMike Linn
Mike, they divided it by league so Musial didn't have to break through the Ruth, Cobb and Williams trio. Also what they did was pick a winner and then pick 2 or 3 guys that were considered but who lost. Lajoie should have been considered-that's all I was saying. I totally agree that Hornsby was the best IMO of all time.
Sorry, didn`t know that, I just like lumping I guess. Yanks/ Sox in 15 minutesMike Linn
Michael Linn wrote: "If you mention LAJOIE, HORNSBY was better. And while Tris was fantastic, Cobb was better. No PED guys! Musial really couldn`t crack the Ruth , Cobb. Williams trio IMOMike Linn"
I agree--it's a pointless exercise if you include the PEDs and are inflexible about position. What about Hornsby at third and Morgan at second? What about Hornsby at short in the AL? (I don't want Schmidt fans coming at me).
Too late, Hornsby only played 193 games at 3rd base. Mike Schmidt still reigns supreme.
Two things Jumped right out at me on this list. First was Robin Yount was listed as a national league shortstop and second was that they put Buster Posey ahead of Roy Campanella.
A couple of thoughts on the above; for the 20 years that Yount played for Milwaukee, the club was an American League club. Posey was/is a fine catcher, Roy was a great catcher, a 3 time MVP impaired by many injuries, mostly to his hands. I have never disputed Mike Schmidt`s ownership as the greatest 3rd baseman ever, but I am an advocate that Eddie Mathews was no slouch & in some circles, his equal. IMO
Mike Linn
I might toss Cal Ripken Jr onto the shortstop shortlist
Michael Linn wrote: "A couple of thoughts on the above; for the 20 years that Yount played for Milwaukee, the club was an American League club.
Posey was/is a fine catcher, Roy was a great catcher, a 3 time MVP impair..."
We had this discussion not long ago about Jaffe's list: Campy was a great catcher, probably in the discussion with the top 3 or 4 of all-time. His career was started late due to integration--he was about 28 his rookie year with Brooklyn. This throws off career stats and WARs.
Posey is OK in my book, but I wouldn't put him in the top 10 at his position and I don't think he is a Hall of Famer. He's 32 years old with 1328 career hits--he will likely end up around 1700 or 1800 and we know his batting average will drop the longer he plays.
He had 1 great year and 3 or 4 pretty good years, but his best year was arguably not even close to Campy's 3 best years. He had mediocre to below average power in an era when EVERYBODY hits 30 to 50 home runs a year. And he's won one Gold Glove.
I'm not sure where all the love for Posey comes from. Maybe it speaks to the sad state of catching overall in the majors now that he is so highly regarded. Maybe he's a stat/WAR/OBP warrior.
To me he looks an awful lot like Thurman Munson without the attitude (and Thurm's attitude was his best part).
Posey was/is a fine catcher, Roy was a great catcher, a 3 time MVP impair..."
We had this discussion not long ago about Jaffe's list: Campy was a great catcher, probably in the discussion with the top 3 or 4 of all-time. His career was started late due to integration--he was about 28 his rookie year with Brooklyn. This throws off career stats and WARs.
Posey is OK in my book, but I wouldn't put him in the top 10 at his position and I don't think he is a Hall of Famer. He's 32 years old with 1328 career hits--he will likely end up around 1700 or 1800 and we know his batting average will drop the longer he plays.
He had 1 great year and 3 or 4 pretty good years, but his best year was arguably not even close to Campy's 3 best years. He had mediocre to below average power in an era when EVERYBODY hits 30 to 50 home runs a year. And he's won one Gold Glove.
I'm not sure where all the love for Posey comes from. Maybe it speaks to the sad state of catching overall in the majors now that he is so highly regarded. Maybe he's a stat/WAR/OBP warrior.
To me he looks an awful lot like Thurman Munson without the attitude (and Thurm's attitude was his best part).
Harold wrote: "Mike, they divided it by league so Musial didn't have to break through the Ruth, Cobb and Williams trio. Also what they did was pick a winner and then pick 2 or 3 guys that were considered but who ..."I agree, Harold, that Lajoie should have had consideration
Rick wrote: "Michael Linn wrote: "If you mention LAJOIE, HORNSBY was better. And while Tris was fantastic, Cobb was better. No PED guys! Musial really couldn`t crack the Ruth , Cobb. Williams trio IMOMike Linn..."
Great point, Rick!
Doug wrote: "Michael Linn wrote: "A couple of thoughts on the above; for the 20 years that Yount played for Milwaukee, the club was an American League club. Posey was/is a fine catcher, Roy was a great catcher..."
Yes, in the larger picture, the fact the the "Negro Leagues" are not "integrated" into this evaluation makes this less than satisfactory. There may not be an easy way to do this, but it isn't just Campy who doesn't get a fair shake.
You wouldn’t be comparing Lajoie and Hornsby since the bulk of their playing time was spent in different leagues.
Campy has 1 stat that I love & I can`t find ANY catcher even close, that`s the % of runners thrown out- 57 % !! The closest to him are in the mid 40sMike Linn
He should’ve found a way to cash in on that 57 with a Heinz commercial.
I know it cost DiMaggio 10 grand for not hitting in 1 more gameMike Linn
Mike wrote: "He should’ve found a way to cash in on that 57 with a Heinz commercial." Very good Mike.
Michael Linn wrote: "Campy has 1 stat that I love & I can`t find ANY catcher even close, that`s the % of runners thrown out- 57 % !! The closest to him are in the mid 40sMike Linn" That is unheard of Mike. The average i believe is about 33%.
This should create some discussion:
AL - Alex Rodriguez the best shortstop ever? None of the following are starters: Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, Ken Griffey Jr., Mike Trout
NL - Sandy Koufax better that Warren Spahn or Steve Carlton? SS: Honus Wagner over Ernie Banks or Ozzie Smith?
And plenty more