Mrs. Jernigan's AP Class discussion

What did you find interesting in this section? What does O'Brien introduce and how does he do that?

Include a couple of questions in your post.

My favorite quote from the section is from Pynchon's insert which states "If the tower is everywhere and the knight of deliverance no proof against its magic, what else?" What could this statement possibly have to do with the story? We learn Wade's nickname in Vietnam - "Sorcerer;" how is this title appropriate for the man we have me over the last couple of chapters? What does it suggest about him? The "gliding" and "electricity" continue in this section to suggest something "wicked this way comes," but how does this relate back to the setting?

Finally, In chapter six, the narrator of the "hypothesis" chapters tells us "Evidence is not truth. It is only evident [...] If you require solutions, you will have to look beyond these pages. Or read a different book" (30). Why does O'Brien include this in the story? What else does he want us to look for in the story?

Before, John had an uncomfortable feeling when he said "Kill Jesus" but now, it suddenly amuses him. It's almost like he has become more accepting of this immoral act of saying such vile things. O'Brien also keeps up the foreshadowing, detailing the hours until Kathy will disappear.
O'Brien introduces conflict into the relationship; not just keeping their feelings locked up but finally let some aggrivation slip out. He does by simply letting the characters converse with each other, because after a whole week pent up together, things are starting to get shaky in their relationship and words are getting bitter.
Do you believe that Kathy has a secret lover on the side? What do you think happened the morning she left? Did she really have a car at the end of the road and hop inside it?

Baillie wrote: "Before, John had an uncomfortable feeling when he said "Kill Jesus" but now, it suddenly amuses him. It's almost like he has become more accepting of this immoral act of saying such vile things. O'..."

I find it interesting that the narrator opens his "hypothesis" section with Kathy's "infidelity." Why throw that into the mixture this early in the text? What does he hope to give readers with this idea? Is he trying to incriminate Kathy? Is he suggesting this is Best Case Scenario? Perhaps he too has been swayed by the "sorcerer."

The day Kathy left seems to be riddled with suggestion and shadow: a furtive glance, downcast eyes, and misconception surround her final "showings." The narrator's words become entangled in our own inferences about Wade's movements and his thoughts, but then again, this novel reflects memory.

In these new chapters, we are given more and more detail of the oddities and pressures behind the relationship between John and Kathy, yet there is very little evidence behind who they actually are. The chapters delve heavily into the relationship, and particularly how it is going to be left when Kathy dissappears, but theonly clues that we of any personal information is a few little things about John, such as his lost election, his past in the war, and his odd interest in magic. That last one came up very suddenly and was very moved shoved in the reader's face. We hear one thing about magic in the beginning of chapter 6, and then all of the sudden, there are little clues and comments about it that make that interest seem incredibly important.

Q1 - So far, there are 3 different types of narratives that each chapter consists of: The progressing story, an odd, very short section that seems to delve into theories and opinions, and the evidence of the case from the stories future. What do you think is the purpose and significance behind these three narratives?

Q2 - What do you think the purpose was for John's sudden switch into a more likeable, loving character in chapter 5? Why did Kathy all of the sudden become cold and distant?

O'Brien continuously presents the image of a trap door and the longing of escape. In the beginning of chapter four the liquid is literally described as curling around their bodies by the lake. Then Kathy just stares beyond the walls of the cottage-an image John never forgets. Is she dreaming of an escape? When driving to town John describes the feeling of an odd pressure against his ears, like being squeezed underwater- the feeling of suffocation? In chapter six multiple people reference magic or magicians. From this it is easily concluded John was involved with magic growing up. His mother said he would stand in front of the mirror and do tricks, and isn't the lake commonly described as a mirror. Also magicians sometimes try to block the audience's view of a "trick" with fog, which is another reoccuring motif. Lastly, the idea of a trapdoor also struck me as odd. A trap door is usually associated with magic, or something dark and mysterious, yet these three chapters focus on the idea of a general escape. What if Kathy had been looking for the obvious escape, but John, the magician, knew of a trapdoor.

The descriptions of John Wade's anger as electricity in his blood and Kathy's love and apparent anger with John both inform and confuse, creating both mystery and desire to know more and to understand their true relationshp.

O'Brien introduces the reality of John's relationship with his father through another's perspective which puts a whole different spin on the 'perfect father' I was picturing. Also, the evidence gives eye witness accounts that are then replayed - the story unfolding from the facts.

Do you believe that John killed Kathy, and that he was merely pretending to be with her similar to when he pretended his father was alive, or does he honestly not know how or why she left?

How do the conflicting accounts of John's character influence the rest of the story from the reader's point of view?

Kathy was leaving soon. But that was okay. The tension between the two reached a peak as John slipped and reacted harshly to Kathy's genuine concern about him. I liked how they went to the outside world for a moment by giong to the nearby town and getting the mail, all the while keeping the pretense up that nothing is wrong even though their relationship is oh so broken. A line that struck me was when Kathy told John "We can't keep doing this," only for him to reply, "Mr. Monster." The new evidence speaks of John's fascination with magic as a boy, with quotes from a textbook he could have been learning from, and a passage from a novel about a maiden trapped by magic. John Wade is a basket case. The pieces of evidence seemed very scattered here, clumping together to form another stepping stone to find the what and the why. Quotes from Presidents Wilson and Nixon. Statements from the police on the case. Even John Wade's memory in the narrative is fractured.

Who is "Mr. Monster?"
Is Tony Carbo a John Wade's friend, accomplice, or something else?

I thought it was interesting how the book kept note of the time, mentioning what hour it was or how many hours of time remained on Kathy's known clock. Each time it would note their next activity, how they went about their actions and what little pieces John Wade would later remember about Kathy, or what he would later forget. This wasn't exactly something that was present in the first few chapters, because those really just set the scene for the reader and supplied a background and suspense for the rest of the actions -- but with the new introduction of exact time and events, it allows the reader to view the timeline of the night as if they were there, as if they were some present being during the night and could grasp the details that are either forgotten by John or left from the brief evidence that is presented in every other chapter. Why does he present the time? Also, why do you think the author continues to make remarks about John's memory and the small details that bothered or interested him? What is he trying to say about John's memories, or his mind, in general, that leads the reader to question his actions and where Kathy could be? The author also begins to note the tension between the two, how they didn't bring the blankets out or make love, but how Kathy did not enjoy his remark and the obvious lack of something between them. John's aching eyes and sizzling blood are mentioned again, which bring me to think of his desire to kill and the feelings that come along whenever his mind drifts to that side. Another interesting thing was John's interest in magic and the common connection made between politicans and magicans -- Why do they share the same secret keeping personality? What does that say about John? It is mentioned that both share an unhappy childhood, and now it is also mentioned there was a tension between John and his father. The evidence keeps providing the reader with new snipits of information regarding John's personality and actions, and some fit together in odd ways while others just lead the reader to believe that there were some form of psychological delusions or gaps within John's minsd. Do you think the author brings this information in, knowing the human psyche and its habit of profiling individuals for their actions and childhood, to convince the reader that John had a part in Kathy's sudden exit from known human life? Or, do you think he is attempting to convey that idea exactly, that humans often judge others by what is presented on the surface before looking deep throughout, front and back, for the actual truth? We often assume the worst, thinking that because a select few pieces of John Wade's puzzle don't exactly add up or they don't look quite right, that he had to have taken part in Kathy's absence. What if he was just John, just Kathy's husband who awoke to find his lover's side of the bed empty, to a cold cabin, to a lonliness that left his memories numb and an answer unfathomable? To me, everything seems too basic to be the typical He-went-insane-and-murdered-his-wife type of story -- I think there's more, something weird about that night and something unknown, because we might not ever know. There's always innocence, even if it seems lost, and I feel like John Wade is innocent. But, who knows?

Ps90brian wrote: "In these new chapters, we are given more and more detail of the oddities and pressures behind the relationship between John and Kathy, yet there is very little evidence behind who they actually are..."

Q1) The significance of the different narratives is to present the story in such a way that the readers can clearly decide what - and who - they believe about John Wade. Whether they decide to believe that John Wade is a psychopath or a victim of a tragic loss is completely up to them and instead of the traditional prose which sways the reader to whatever the author wants them to think, this style allow the reader to come to a conclusion on their own.

Q2) Painting Wade as a victim causes the readers to empathize with him. Kathy becoming cold and distant, losing first his life's dream and then the woman he loved plays into this. However, this could also be Wade manipulating the events in his mind to see himself as a victim.

Rosie wrote: "The descriptions of John Wade's anger as electricity in his blood and Kathy's love and apparent anger with John both inform and confuse, creating both mystery and desire to know more and to underst..."

I do not believe that John killed Kathy, because although he does want to kill, I think he loves Kathy enough not to kill her. I think he is entirely clueless as to why she left and how to get her back. The conflicting accounts make the reader question John, not knowing whether he is simply delusional or a psychopath.

Anne wrote: "I thought it was interesting how the book kept note of the time, mentioning what hour it was or how many hours of time remained on Kathy's known clock. Each time it would note their next activity, ..."

I think O'Brien includes the times just to make the story seem more choppy in a sense. He tries to draw the reader in by using short sentences and sudden clues to almost help the sense of suspension arising. As for John's memories I think those play a huge role in the story. In the evidence, John's father is mentioned multiple times and almost the obsession John had with him- especially after his death. Which brings me to wonder if John is obsessing over Kathy the same way, as if she had already met death. The blood sizzling eyes to me represent the anger built up inside of him. The insecurities he hides of losing Kathy because she shows signs of wanting to escape. Although I do get the sense John is innocent. Although many things good lead towards making him look guilty some things don't add up. The way John felt after his fathers death was so angered, traumatized. Here, John acts calm in a way- and if he truly killed Kathy then I feel like he would act irrationally and not sleep. So maybe he is innocent, and someone else wants to pull of the magic trick this time.

Jaela wrote: "O'Brien continuously presents the image of a trap door and the longing of escape. In the beginning of chapter four the liquid is literally described as curling around their bodies by the lake. Then..."

I can't quite decide if Kathy wanted to leave, because she kept dreaming of an adventure WITH John -- she constantly talked about it, about running off to Verona with a bus full of kids a him, but so far, he couldn't provide that for her. If the trap door is an escape and if John knows about it, I think he willingly allowed her to fall through it. I really don't believe that John is to blame for Kathy running off, but I also don't believe he attempted to stop her. He seems so indifferent about life, just casually agreeing and talking alongside her to please her in that moment. To me, John isn't happy and lacks the typical emotions and connection that most humans have, and he knows that he's not normal, but he knows that and he doesn't want Kathy to see that. There's just such an awkward presence about John that confuses me, because I want to believe he did something but because of his odd traits I want to believe that he's actually innocent, just because it would add da twist to the plot and teach th reader a social lesson of judgement. If John makes anything disapear, it's his emotions and memories. He's a trickster by pretending to be okay.

Maria wrote: "My favorite quote from the section is from Pynchon's insert which states "If the tower is everywhere and the knight of deliverance no proof against its magic, what else?" What could this statement..."

Q1 - There is still a lot that we do not know about Wade. There are little clues and little things that pop up here and there, but overall, the only thing that we can do is make assumptions and draw conclusions. In the Evidence chapter, Arthur J. Lux makes the statement that Wade lived his whole life like a magician. From what we have seen, he keeps things bottled up and secretive. Not giving anything away that might let you in on the "trick", which, in Wade's case, may be his inner self and being.

Q2 - O'Brien is saying that within these sections of evidence, he is not actually giving us everything. All the evidence may point towards one thing, but the truth may be completely from left field. We, as readers, need to go in deeper, find out own sources of information within the characters themselves and our own knowledge of the human condition. Not everything will be given to us and laid out in front of us.